The Legal Ops Podcast

Anna Guo joins the Legal Ops Podcast, talks about LegalBenchmarks.ai, AND...1) Lawyers Don’t Actually Need 100% Accurate AI (but... Here’s What They Want Instead).2) Honest Career Paths in the AI Era: Spray & Pray, Personal Brand, or the Connect?3) The Pigeon Gap, and the potential modern-era strategic genius of having a Fax machine.LegalBenchmarks.ai was a project born from conversations with in-house teams who wanted to understand what actually works, beyond the marketing taglines and vendor demos. It is a collaborative effort powered by lawyers, researchers, and builders who believe in open, practical evaluation. They provide legal teams with unbiased, practical AI performance insight and share real-world findings that help legal teams adopt AI safely and effectively.https://www.legalbenchmarks.ai/home

Brittany Arthur (Design Thinking Japan) join the Legal Ops Podcast.Q:What? A: Design thinking is a process for solving complex problems by focusing on human needs first, then exploring possibilities, prototyping solutions, and iterating. Q: Why? A: In an increasingly AI-driven conversation where people are pushing solutions that may not be adopted (especially in legal technology), push back and stay focused on the human (in the loop or otherwise!) that has a business problem to be solved.Q: When? A: Right now. Do it. Push play.---Other notable highlights: - Strategy and effective rollout of AI in large organizations (hint: value multipliers and strategic enablers like legal and legal ops can accelerate a lot of this)- How to think about AI- Questioning "What comes after AI"?- Shohei Ohtani- Brittany's ability to generate value with a bat...

Phil drops by the Legal Ops Podcast. Once an aspiring artist and comicbook-preneur, he moved on to become a tech-savvy law dragon, and most recently - ambidextrous dad. This episode features:-The secret origin of his ambidexterity: chopsticks, parenting, and boiled eggs, all starring his left hand (and sometimes, his right—blowing minds at family dinners).\- Epic tales from the legal trenches: from being told he’d never make management to turning down director gigs.- Behind-the-scenes insights from his role building a cutting-edge e-discovery department.- Community building, networking, and the (in)famous "Legal Tech Mafia": early morning runs, big ideas, and laughs.- Servant leadership in action: why giving his time to team members means more than any process or checklist.- How imposter syndrome pops up—and how creativity makes problems solvable and tech solutions cheaper (like, $480k cheaper).Bonus round: secret art skills, geeky tattoo stories, and candid banter that proves legal technology can actually be fun, fast, and friendly.

Matt Lhoumeau, the CEO of Concord Worldwide, joins the Legal Ops Podcast.You should listen if you want to hear about:- His interesting story in the United States- The (un)importance of previous accomplishments and certifications- The CD v. MP3 shift- Controversial opinions on contracts (yes, really)- The value of the human touch in the age of AI- 0 legal teams, data trading, and NDA absorption?Also available on Youtube!Concord: https://eu1.hubs.ly/H0lTSrr0

Harry Borovick, GC of Luminance, Author and Educator joins the Podcast. Highlights:1. “People don’t want drills, they want holes.” -Richard SusskindHarry channels Richard Susskind, and then notes that clients care about outcomes, not the tools or processes behind them. A mindset shift towards results seems more relevant than ever in the age of AI, but is this all so simple?“The idea is...people are more interested in the outcome than the process to achieve it. That’s why you often hear the terminology, you know, the black box problem...”2. The Rise of the Tech-Enabled, Emotionally Intelligent LawyerHarry gets real about the future of law: it’s not just about knowing the law or using AI, but about soft skills and empathy. Lawyers are often a powerful support system for clients, and the argument here is: AI—no matter how advanced—can’t replace the human touch.“What most people want from their lawyer is one of two things: the correct answer delivered rapidly, concisely, in an applicable manner, and...an emotional crutch essentially, an emotional support system for the client.”3. Why Legal Education Needs a RevolutionHarry critiques traditional legal education, arguing that law schools are failing to prepare students for the realities of modern practice. He calls for universities to embed technology and practical skills into the curriculum, and shares how he’s actively working to bridge that gap.“There are an enormous amount of academic institutions and very few preparing students...(for what the) professsion is going to be...Learning lots of cases doesn’t actually make you able to... have a great deal of experience interviewing a client to Why Listen?1) Fresh perspectives on what it means to be a lawyer in 2025 and beyond.2) Actionable insights for law students, educators, and hiring managers.3) Real talk about the intersection of tech, empathy, and business in legal practice.

Jane Oxley, the Chief Revenue Officer of Smokeball joins the Legal Ops Podcast. Highlights:- What is pizza anyway? - How well do you know legal trivia? (a.k.a. Do you recognize the name Smokeball?) - The early days of a startup can be hard, but that is harder if you don't have a good winter coat. - How important is it to stay focused? How critical are early adopters? (Spoiler: Very. Very very.) - Legal professionals may be more prone to use advanced technology when it is baked into things in a seamless way. - Are there differences in approach to when dealing with a small law firm v. a larger corporation? - Can this all be easy peezy?

In this Pulse episode, Daryl and Elliot discuss:DonglesWho first introduced the idea of LLMs "talking" to LLMs?LLMs actually "talking" to LLMsMaking AIMI a thing DeepseekResearch LLMs (specialization v. generalization)Using words with imperfect definitions, and rabbitholes"Probabilistic loops" and "thinking"

JP Biard, the Chief Global Strategy Officer at LegalOn Technologies joins the Legal Ops Podcast. Highlights:- How much has LegalOn grown?- Why do people go to law school? What does technology have to say about that?- Are lawyers reluctant to adopt new technology?- What has LegalOn's evolution been, and how is that different from other players in this space?- What is the real impact of contract lifecycle management systems? Or, who gets the most benefit?- Isn't the art of the possible just a flowery way to say "education"?- What is the power of playbooks?- What are the differences in lawyers across geographies?

After a long break, Elliot and Alex are back. Where did they go? What were they doing? And who is this other guy? This episode features... 1). Who is this other guy? Introducing Daryl Osuch. 2). 2024 Year in Review: a lookback that features highly critical and mostly arbitrary scores on a scale of 1 (Wrong, and you will laugh about this later) to 10 (Right, and I am scared of your apparent prescience). Alex spent Christmas building small language model apps, Daryl defends LLM mistakes, and Elliot determines we all did pretty poorly. 3). 2025 Predictions: Daryl holds a surprise spelling quiz, We make oblique references to 80's movies that you may or may not catch, and Elliot opines on the GenAI hype cycle. 4). What's next?

Dee Venello is a senior operations professional at Commvault. She has implemented contracting systems and other legal technology in multiple organizations, carefully managing diverse stakeholders with a variety of interests and workflows. She also has experience in general business operations, providing her with insight into the issues and concerns faced by teams that the legal department supports. A big thanks to LinkSquares for sponsoring this episode and for recommending Dee as a guest of the show. We discussed with Dee why LinkSquares was selected by two of her employers as the primary contracting solution for the organization. We also discussed a range of related issues, including: * The importance of CLM in general * Why change management is vital in any technology implementation * The value of cross-functional understanding and partnerships * How CLM liberates data, and what to do with it * Driving continuous improvement and "planning to plan" LINKS LinkSquares website: https://linksquares.com Dee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dee-venello-74090a40/

Alex and Elliot chat about: * how to craft an organizational AI policy * a recent tribunal decision requiring Air Canada to honor a refund policy invented by its online chatbot * recent articles on AI's impact on law firm billing and a potential shift towards value-based pricing * another recent article on the need to balance AI's precision with human insight in the practice of law A big thanks to LinkSquares for sponsoring this episode! Check out their website at: https://linksquares.com/ LINKS Air Canada decision: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/02/air-canada-must-honor-refund-policy-invented-by-airlines-chatbot/ AI impact on billing - article 1: https://www.legalfutures.co.uk/latest-news/ai-could-transform-law-firm-billing-beyond-recognition AI impact on billing - article 2: https://www.legaldive.com/news/ai-use-cases-legal-ops-deloitte-blickstein-group-report/702436/ Balancing AI and human strengths in legal practice: https://www.law.com/legaltechnews/2024/02/12/the-future-of-tech-enabled-law-practice-balancing-ais-precision-with-human-insight/

At the start of 2024 Jenn McCarron became President of the Board of the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC), succeeding Mike Haven. We invited Jenn back on to the show to discuss: * the process of becoming President * the factors she considered in weighing up the role * CLOC's role in the legal ops community, and how it has developed over time * what changes we can expect in the future under Jenn's leadership * the extent to which Jenn's background in entertainment will be relevant to her role We also continued our tradition of beginning the year with predictions, and we invited Jenn to join us in making some of her own and assessing ours. These are some of the topics we discussed: * legal ops as a partner to the business, not just the legal team * continued growth in the importance of data and analytics * focus on enterprise technology rather than legal point solutions * future use cases for artificial intelligence * the importance of managing AI risks LINKS Jenn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennmccarron Jenn’s phone screen (discussed at 30 minutes and 40 seconds into the recording): http://tinyurl.com/5hem49yp

Alex and Elliot discuss: * The recent leadership challenges at OpenAI and what, if anything, it means for the pace of AI development and adoption * A review of podcast episodes during 2023, their favourites and why * Musings on expectations for 2024 * Elliot's continuing work on the "AI for legal teams" training course, which will be published in early 2024 under the Legal Ops Institute brand This is our last episode for 2023. A big thanks for listening to the show - we'll be back in late January or early February 2024. LINKS Legal Ops Institute: https://www.legalops.fm/institute

Noah Waisberg is the co-founder and CEO of Zuva.ai and the former co-founder and CEO of Kira Systems. He has worked for more than a decade on artificial intelligence and its application in the legal industry, beginning his work long before anyone had heard of Transformers and GPT. He is also the author of two books on artificial intelligence: "AI for Lawyers" which, as the title suggests, is focused on AI and its use by lawyers; and "Robbie the Robot Learns to Read", likely the first children's book aiming to teach younger readers about machine learning concepts. Naturally, with Noah we discussed many issues related to artificial intelligence, including: * What it was like selling AI systems to lawyers in the early 2010s * How AI adds value in the legal industry * The ability of AI to capture, distribute and amplify legal expertise * Jevons paradox and how it relates to AI in the legal industry * The role of generative AI in contract review and other legal use cases * The extent to which generative AI levels the legal tech playing field LINKS Noah on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahwaisberg Noah on X: https://twitter.com/nwaisb "AI for lawyers" book: https://tinyurl.com/mx4t5nh6 "Robbie the Robot Learns to Read" book: https://tinyurl.com/3c9pjf6r

Alex and Elliot discuss: * A recent article looking at the effects of AI on productivity and quality of work by consultants at the Boston Consulting Group * A study by an English law firm finding poor legal advice provided by various Large Language Models, including GPT and Bard * A recent article discussing whether or not generative AI will be a source of competitive advantage for law firms * Elliot's anguish, and enjoyment, producing material for the upcoming "AI for legal teams" training course, which will soon be the first course published by the Legal Ops Institute A big thanks to our friends at LinkSquares for sponsoring this episode. For more information, check out their website: https://linksquares.com/ LINKS Article on AI used by BCG consultants: https://www.mi-3.com.au/20-09-2023/harvard-business-school-study-bcg-finds-knowledge-workers-using-chat-gpt-outperform Law firm research paper on AI providing legal advice: https://lpscdn.linklaters.com/-/media/files/document-store/pdf/uk/2023/october/report_linksai-english-law-benchmark_october-2023.ashx?rev=fc8c65ae-00f6-408e-9aec-4bf7846f82db&extension=pdf Article on generative AI and law firm competitive advantage: https://www.law.com/legaltechnews/2023/10/30/for-law-firms-will-generative-ai-really-be-a-major-competitive-differentiator/ Legal Ops Institute sneak peak: https://www.legalops.fm/institute

In this Talking Tech episode Alex and Elliot speak with Tim Parilla and Ashlyn Donohue from LinkSquares. LinkSquares helps organizations streamline contract management and drive efficiencies for contract-related workflows with an all-in-one CLM and legal project management platform. In addition to learning about the LinksSquares product, we discuss a range of important issues including how to get buy in for a CLM implementation, which parts of an organization are the main beneficiaries of a CLM system and why data is so valuable to legal teams. LINKS LinkSquares website: https://linksquares.com/ Tim Parilla on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-parilla-64a4b36/ Ashlyn Donohue on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashlyn-donohue-098aa31b Cockpit Counsel podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/456zmn84 Cockpit Counsel podcast on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/27em7e4p

Microsoft is one of the most innovative and widely recognised companies in the world. How does an organisation with this level of scale and success think about legal operations? What are its strategic initiatives and thought leadership that the legal ops community can learn from? To what extent is its legal department leveraging AI and other cutting edge tools to drive efficiencies and optimization? These are among the topics we discussed with Lydia Petrakis and Tom Orrison. Lydia is a Senior Corporate Counsel and Digital Strategist focused on issues of strategy, innovation and planning as they affect the legal team. Tom is a Senior Director of Legal Operations focused on contracting, procurement, productivity solutions and support services. Both work in Microsoft's Corporate, External and Legal Affairs (CELA) department, one of the largest of its kind in the world. Other topics we discussed with Lydia and Tom include: * How the legal team is leveraging AI * The vital importance of data * The importance of understanding, and documenting, process * How to prepare lawyers and legal teams for change * How automation is adopted differently across three major work types: transact, comply and advise LINKS Lydia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lydiapetrakis/ Tom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-orrison-873ba04/

Alex and Elliot discuss: * A recent article by Ironclad's CEO arguing that AI is entering its "Napster phase" * ChatGPT now having access to current information via the internet * Recent trips to Japan, observations on intake systems in daily Japanese life and its implications for legal workflows * Elliot's new MacBook Air and Alex's ruminations on various Apple products LINKS Article on AI entering its Napster phase: https://www.fastcompany.com/90942310/ai-napster-who-going-to-own-it-next ChatGPT can now access the internet: https://www.zdnet.com/article/chatgpt-can-finally-access-the-internet-in-real-time-but-theres-a-catch/

Justin Hectus is a co-founder and Chief Information Officer at Keesal Propulsion Labs, a consultancy focused on technology and automation of legal processes. With Justin we discussed many aspects of building and delivering technology for legal teams, including: * How to ensure your team stays focused on the core mission and goals * The importance of knowing and understanding your end customer * Shipping early and iterating fast * The future of custom built legal solutions * How to build and retain a team of star players * Developing and cross-training talent through music, art and side hustles LINKS Justin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinhectus

Alex and Elliot discuss: * Introduction to the Legal Ops Institute, essential learnings for legal changemakers brought to you by the podcast * Thumbs up emoji used to accept a contract * Generative AI could reduce law firm revenue by 23.5% * 62% of legal professionals are not using AI * 2023 Asia-Pacific Legal Innovation and Technology Association (ALITA) Awards LINKS Legal Ops Institute: https://www.legalops.fm/institute Thumbs up emoji: https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/thumbs-up-emoji-can-represent-contract-acceptance-sask-court-finds-1.1941866 Generative AI reducing law firm revenue: https://www.geeklawblog.com/2023/08/generative-ai-could-reduce-law-firm-revenue-by-23-5.html Legal professionals not using AI: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20230727977407/en/%C2%A062-of-Legal-Professionals-Are-Not-Using-AI-%E2%80%94-And-Feel-The-Industry-Is-Not-Ready-For-The-Technology 2023 ALITA Awards: https://alita.legal/alita-awards-2023

Alex and Elliot are joined by Tom Stephenson, host of the Dear Legal Ops podcast, to discuss: * the evolution of legal operations * career progression for legal ops professionals * the intersection of tech, ops and people * the strength of the legal ops community LINKS Tom Stephenson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tstephenson1 Dear Legal Ops podcast: https://www.dearlegalops.com/

Jenn McCarron is the Director of Legal Operations and Technology at Netflix, a board member of the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC) and host of the CLOC Talk Podcast. If legal operations has rockstars, Jenn is undoubtedly one of them. We covered lots of ground with Jenn, including: * What legal innovation looks like at Netflix * The vital importance of storytelling and communication * Career paths for legal operations professionals * Jenn's own career path from IT program management to legal operations director * Whether or not legal design is really "a thing" * Jenn's interest in music and its relevance to her legal operations job LINKS Jenn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennmccarron

In this Talking Tech episode Alex and Elliot speak with Jerry Ting, co-founder and CEO of Evisort. Evisort combines artificial intelligence, automation and deep integration to empower customers to transform their business with industry leading contract analytics and contract lifecycle management. In addition to deep diving into Evisort's product, we discuss with Jerry the key to implementing CLM in a commercial context and how to get buy in for any complex change which affects stakeholders across the organisation. LINKS Evisort website: https://www.evisort.com/ Jerry Ting on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerryting

Alex and Elliot are joined by Kevin Clem, Chief Growth Officer at HBR Consulting, to discuss: * Predictions about AI, data and the dominance of Microsoft's productivity suite * HBR's "The Mingle" party at the recent CLOC Global Institute (with audio recorded live at the event) A big thanks to HBR Consulting for sponsoring this episode of the podcast and for hosting The Mingle party. You can find more information about them here: https://www.hbrconsulting.com/ LINKS Kevin Clem on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinclem

Want to know what it's like to attend the world's biggest legal operations conference? Or did you go and you're now keen to relive it? This is the episode for you!The unofficial theme of this year's event was: artificial intelligence and its role in the legal industry. AI was discussed in almost every session and essentially every conversation over breakfast, lunch and networking drinks. And the consistent message is that AI is already having a real impact on the legal industry through a number of practical use cases and technologies.In our interviews we covered AI from many angles, including how legal ops professionals are adopting it, how vendors are incorporating it into their products and how it will continue to affect the shape of the legal tech market.A big thanks to Evisort for sponsoring this episode and for enabling us to bring this amazing content to you. In the episode you'll hear a number of interviews with their staff, customers and partners, all of whom gave valuable insights on topics at the heart of legal operations and technology (including artificial intelligence). Find out more about Evisort here: https://www.evisort.com/

Alex and Elliot discuss: * The podcast heading to CGI 2023! * A recent survey of perceptions of legal department efficiency * Current attitudes to generative AI in legal practice * Gartner's 2023 report on core capabilities for legal operations technology LINKS Legal's role in revenue generation: https://www.legaldive.com/news/legal-department-revenue-generation-contract-negotiations-onit-elr-report/647087/ Legal department responsiveness: https://www.legaldive.com/news/legal-department-reputation-onit-elr-report-bypassing-legal/645224/ Lawyers' intentions to use generative AI: https://www.lawnext.com/2023/03/few-legal-professionals-using-or-planning-to-use-generative-ai-so-far-lexisnexis-survey-finds.html Allen & Overy's approach to generative AI: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/generative-ai-is-coming-for-the-lawyers Gartner's core capabilities for legal operations technology: https://www.gartner.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2022-04-24-gartner-identifies-core-capabilities-for-legal-operations-technologies

Raymond Blyd is seriously into legal tech. His websites, Legal Complex and Legal Pioneer, showcase the legal tech market by highlighting the most innovative brands and, more importantly, the numbers. How much capital is flowing into legal tech? How has the funding market changed in recent times? Who are the winners and losers? What does all this tell us about the current trends and likely future developments? These are all questions that Raymond has investigated and written about, by analysing the numbers and thinking carefully about what they tell us. We covered many topics with Raymond, including: * How he became interested in legal tech * What is (and isn't) "legal tech" * What is the biggest legal tech company (it's not what you think) * What he is seeing in the legal tech numbers now that have implications for the future * How AI and GPT have and will affect the market * What all this means for the role of legal in the wider community LINKS Legal Pioneer: https://legalpioneer.org/ Legal Complex: https://www.legalcomplex.com/ Raymond on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raymondblijd/

Alex and Elliot discuss: * The release of GPT-4 * GPT-4 passes the Uniform Bar Exam * Microsoft announces Copilot for Office online * Copying GPT for under $600, by using GPT LINKS Release of GPT-4: https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/14/23638033/openai-gpt-4-chatgpt-multimodal-deep-learning GPT-4 has passed the Uniform Bar Exam: https://www.law.com/legaltechnews/2023/03/17/how-gpt-4-mastered-the-entire-bar-exam-and-why-that-matters/ Microsoft Copilot: https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/17/23644501/microsoft-copilot-ai-office-documents-microsoft-365-report Copying GPT for under $600: https://newatlas.com/technology/stanford-alpaca-cheap-gpt/

Interest in artificial intelligence has skyrocketed in the past few months thanks to rapid advances in the GPT language model and, equally importantly, many vendors incorporating the model into their products and services. But what does this mean for the legal industry, both now and in the future? To answer this question we invited Mary O’Carroll and Cai GoGwilt onto the podcast. Mary is currently Chief Community Officer with Ironclad, a US-based contract lifecycle management vendor, as well as the immediate past president of the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium and the former Director of Legal Operations at Google. Cai is a co-founder of Ironclad, its current Chief Technology Officer and formerly a software engineer with a data analytics software provider. Having both Mary and Cai on the show enabled a rich conversation about GPT and the legal industry, both from a technology perspective and a commercial perspective. Here is a taste of the topics we covered: * What actually is GPT? * What does GPT offer in the digital contracting space? * What is it good at and what are its limitations? * Is the current hype justified? * What does this mean for lawyers and legal work? * Are there any risks and, if so, how can they be managed? * What does the future hold for GPT and the legal industry? By the way, our conversation with Mary and Cai was recorded on 2 March 2023. We think it's important to provide a timestamp, given the rapid rate of developments in this space. LINKS Mary O'Carroll on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryshenocarroll Cai GoGwilt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cai-gogwilt-77b18a22

Alex and Elliot discuss: * A roundup of legal tech investments in 2022 including their thoughts on the trends for 2023 * Microsoft’s potential integration of ChatGPT into Outlook and Word, and what this would mean for the legal industry * Why Elliot is hanging out for the rumoured-to-be-upcoming 15.5 inch M2 MacBook Air LINKS 2022 legal tech investment: https://www.law.com/legaltechnews/2023/01/20/legal-tech-investments-dropped-in-2022-but-the-number-of-investors-spiked/ ChatGPT for Outlook and Word: https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/9/23546144/microsoft-openai-word-powerpoint-outlook-gpt-integration-rumor

It's the start of the year and time for a new round of legal tech predictions! In this episode we discuss a bunch of predictions from Gartner, including what we do and don't agree with, and why. Here's a sneak peak of the issues covered: * Big growth in the proportion of funding spent on legal tech * Replacing lawyers with non-lawyers * Ever increasing automation * Capturing the benefits of CLM, or not * Spending on non-specialist technology providers Then Alex and Elliot make some predictions of their own, including: * The rise of platforms * More "no code" tools * Technology rationalisation * The continued importance of rich APIs * The impact of ChatGPT * Consolidation in the CLM market * Microsoft's legal tech acquisition LINKS Gartner legal tech trends: https://www.gartner.com/smarterwithgartner/5-legal-technology-trends-changing-in-house-legal-departments

Carl Morrison is the Director of Legal Operations at MGM Resorts International, based in Las Vegas. He began his legal career as a paralegal, working primarily in litigation support and legal project management. He progressed to management roles in which he lead teams of paralegals to efficiently deliver complex discovery and document review initiatives, eventually combining his existing skills with technology, analysis and strategic advice to move fully into legal operations. We covered many topics with Carl, including: * How he progressed from paralegal to director of legal operations * What specific challenges he encountered on his journey and how he handled them * The challenges that come with being a legal operations leader in a small legal team * As a sole legal operations resource, how he prioritises his time and effort * The impact of an organisational merger on a legal operations function * Observations on the legal operations market in the US compared to other parts of the world LINKS Carl Morrison on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carlmorrison/ Carl's email: [email protected]

Nam Truong is the head of Digital and Innovation at Law Squared, an innovative and young law firm based in Melbourne, Australia. Nam is relatively new to the legal industry, having spent a number of years working with digital products in the financial services industry. This non-legal background, combined with the blank canvas of Law Squared's existing tech stack, enabled Nam and the firm to eschew many traditional legal tech services and instead create a flexible and robust system which leverages modern architectural principles. We covered many topics with Nam, including: * Why he moved from fintech to the legal industry, and what key observations he had after making the move. * How Law Squared is different to a traditional law firm and how that affects the day-to-day employee experience. * How Nam and the firm approached the design of their tech stack. * Which particular applications the firm uses, how they are integrated and how it improves the handling and management of data. * Why they chose a modular approach over a monolithic approach, and what benefits and costs it offers. * How the tech stack is expected to grow and develop in the future. LINKS Nam Truong on Linkedin: https://au.linkedin.com/in/namtruong96 Law Squared: https://www.lawsquared.com/

Zach Posner is a co-founder and managing partner of The Legal Tech Fund, an investment fund which focuses exclusively on early stage legal tech start ups. He is an accomplished entrepreneur himself, having started and sold three companies in a variety of industries. In a wide ranging and fascinating conversation, we covered many aspects of the legal tech investment world, including: * What is unique about the legal tech market, and why he and The Legal Tech Fund focus on it * What makes a good start up, both in general and in the legal industry specifically * How to validate a new business idea * Why timing is of critical importance, and what to do about it * What "pre-seed", "seed", "series A" and other investment jargon means * What funding cycles are and how they work * The role of an investor in the day-to-day operations and management of a business * What sort of exit investors look for and why the exit profile in legal tech is different to other markets LINKS Zach Posner on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zachposner The Legal Tech Fund: https://www.legaltech.com/ TLTF Summit: http://tltfsummit.com/ Nate's news: https://www.legaltech.com/natesnews

In this Talking Tech episode Alex and Elliot speak with Matt Patel, co-founder and COO of Malbek. Malbek provides provides contract review and management software solutions to companies across the globe. LINKS Malbek website: https://www.malbek.io/ Matt Patel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-patel-36680a9

Electra Japonas is the founder and CEO of The Law Boutique, a legal optimisation consultancy which aims to turn law departments into commercial enablers by supercharging their business through legal design. Electra and TLB are on a mission to drive efficiency through standardization. Their first two contract standardization projects, OneNDA and OneDPA, have received widespread adoption and acclaim. Their next venture, Claustack, aims to build on that success by creating a platform which enables all industry participants to start and run their own standardization projects. We sat down with Electra to discuss these initiatives in more detail, including: * Electra's background and what led her to start her own consultancy. * How OneNDA has performed during its first year since launch. * Why Claustack is like a combined Github and Stackoverflow for legal. * How Claustack and TLB will help lawyers to run their own standardization projects. * Why standardization can and should be applied to more than just documents and contracts. * What success will look like for Claustack and standardization in general. LINKS Electra Japonas on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/electra-japonas/ The Law Boutique website: https://www.tlb.law/ Claustack website: https://www.claustack.com/ OneNDA website: https://onenda.club/

Alex and Elliot chat about: * Why are investors pouring money into legal technology? * Is it getting easier to switch legal tech vendors? * Google's move into e-signature and what it means for other markets * AirSlate's recent $51.5m capital raise * Why Alex isn't wearing his Apple Watch any more (most of the time) Thanks to HBR Consulting for sponsoring this episode. Find out more about HBR here: https://www.hbrconsulting.com/ LINKS Money pouring into legal tech: https://www.ft.com/content/b6f0796e-0265-40c6-ad4c-a900cd788c39 Switching legal tech vendors: https://www.law.com/legaltechnews/2022/06/24/legal-professionals-face-cost-time-and-trust-barriers-when-switching-tech-vendors/ Google's move into e-signature: https://www.law.com/legaltechnews/2022/07/12/googles-move-into-e-signature-isnt-likely-about-the-clm-market/

In this Talking Tech episode Alex and Elliot speak with Kevin Clem and Lauren Chung from HBR Consulting. HBR is one of the world's largest legal operations consulting firms, headquartered in Chicago with operations throughout the USA, Canada and the UK. In addition to consulting on all aspects of legal operations, technology and strategy, HBR conducts an annual law department survey to analyse and understand developments in the legal industry. In the episode we draw on the survey, as well as Kevin and Lauren's extensive experience, to discuss recent trends in the industry and a number of insightful predictions for the future. LINKS Kevin Clem on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinclem Lauren Chung on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurenmchung HBR Consulting: https://www.hbrconsulting.com/ Counsel Command: https://www.hbrconsulting.com/what-we-do/software-solutions/counselcommand/ Counsel Guide: https://www.hbrconsulting.com/what-we-do/software-solutions/counselguide/

Meera Klemola and Astrid Kohlmeier are legal design pioneers. They are both teachers, speakers and writers, specialising in the application of design principles to legal services delivery. Both have consulted on this topic to the world's largest law firms and in-house teams. For this episode we sat down with Meera and Astrid to discuss their book, "The Legal Design Book", which was published in 2021. We covered many topics including: * Why they wrote the book and why now is the right time to publish it * What "legal design" is and how it differs from some other methodologies, such as Lean Six Sigma and Agile * Why "legal design" is about more than visually pleasing documents * The key philosophies and mindsets that underly legal design * How to apply legal design in practice, including case studies * The relationship between legal design and legal operations LINKS The book: https://legaldesign-book.com/ Meera's website: https://www.groundm.com/ Meera on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meera-klemola/ Astrid's website: https://astridkohlmeier.de/ Astrid on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/astridkohlmeier/

Alex and Elliot chat about: * A recent survey suggesting lawyers are (possibly) moving away from MS Word * Recent capital raisings by Evisort, SirionLabs and Dilitrust * The M2 MacBook Air and what's to like (and not like) about it LINKS Lawyers moving away from MS Word: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2022/05/25/are-some-inhouse-lawyers-falling-out-of-love-with-word/ Evisort: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/evisort-raises-100m-in-funding-led-by-tcv-301545180.html SirionLabs: https://techcrunch.com/2022/05/10/sirionlabs-lands-85m-to-inject-contract-management-with-automation/ Dilitrust: https://www.dilitrust.com/en/actu/dilitrust-continues-to-grow/

Alex and Elliot interview Eyal Iffergan, Managing Director, Legal Business Advisory at Hyperion Global Partners. Hyperion provides legal operations consultancy services to legal teams across the world. In this episode, Eyal, Alex and Elliot discuss technology roadmaps and data analytics, including: * What a technology roadmap is, why it's important in both private practice and in-house and how it relates to the team's broader strategy. * How legal operations is helping to drive the legal industry to become a "customer driven market". * What legal teams typically do well (and less well) when creating a technology roadmap. * What we mean by "legal metrics" and whether or not they must be quantifiable. * What is most challenging: collecting, analysing or utilising metrics? * What are the most critical metrics for a legal function to focus on. LINKS Hyperion Global Partners: https://www.hyperiongp.com/ Hyperion Research: https://insights.hgpresearch.com/

The Global Institute is the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium's flagship conference, which is held annually in Las Vegas, USA. The event was most recently held in May 2022 and attracted around 2,500 attendees from the legal operations ecosystem globally. In this episode we transport you to the conference via the many recordings we made at the event. We interviewed speakers, fellow attendees, legal tech vendors and others. We also recorded our thoughts and reflections on many of the sessions, immediately after we came out of them. If you couldn't attend the conference and you'd like to know what it's like, or you did attend and you want to relive it, this is the episode for you. Our thanks to HBR Consulting for sponsoring this episode and for making it possible. Find out more about HBR here: https://www.hbrconsulting.com/

Alex and Elliot chat about: * The (literal) road to the 2022 CLOC Global Institute * Legal tech capital raisings by LinkSquares, Filevine and Athennian * ServiceNow expanding further into the legal market This episode would not be possible without the support of HBR Consulting. If you're attending CGI2022, make sure to visit their booth. You can find more information about them here: https://www.hbrconsulting.com/ LINKS LinkSquares: https://techcrunch.com/2022/04/04/linksquares-benefits-from-the-legal-tech-boom-with-a-fresh-100m/ Filevine: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/filevine-raises-108m-series-d-for-legal-work-platform-serving-law-firms-and-corporate-counsel-teams-301525006.html Athennian: https://legaltechnology.com/2022/03/31/athennian-raises-33-million-in-series-b-funding/ ServiceNow: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2022/03/23/servicenow-pushes-deeper-into-legal-with-new-expansion/

Want the best productivity tips from your peers in the legal industry? This is the episode for you! Recently we asked our followers on LinkedIn to post their best productivity tips. This comprises the philosophies, tools and other awesome stuff that they just can't live without. And we got a great response! In this episode Alex and Elliot go through all the tips, adding their analysis and views. They also discuss the core elements of productivity, how to approach each element and what works (and doesn't) for them. LINKS Original LinkedIn post: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6914726124598046720 The 4 Ds: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryancollinseurope/2018/06/14/effective-time-management/?sh=4d5ba51d1938

In this Talking Tech episode Alex and Elliot interview Catherine Moynihan, Senior Director, Strategic Intelligence and Advisory at Hyperion Global Partners. Hyperion provides legal operations consultancy services to legal teams across the world. In addition, their core business historically was the development of in-depth and high-quality research reports on all aspects of the legal tech market. In this episode we focus on those research reports, covering: * What it is about the legal tech market that makes the reports valuable. * What the reports cover, in what detail and how frequently they are updated. * How Hyperion's customers use the reports both to understand the technology marketplace and to formulate and clarify their own requirements. * How Hyperion's reports differ from others in the market. * What trends Hyperion has seen in legal tech and what developments are expected in the future. LINKS Check out Hyperion Global Partners: https://www.hyperiongp.com/ Catherine Moynihan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherinejmoynihan/

Alex and Elliot chat about: * How Alex uses the iOS focus mode to control notifications * A bunch of legal tech capital raisings... * Time by Ping and Zero Systems: automated time-based billing * Common Paper: contracts as APIs * Ex Parte: predicting litigation outcomes * Thirdfort: AML / KYC compliance for law firms LINKS Time by Ping: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2022/03/01/time-by-pings-ryan-alshak-on-the-36-5m-series-b-funding/ Zero Systems: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2022/03/01/and-now-zero-bags-12m-in-funding/ Common Paper: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2022/03/01/common-paper-the-contracts-as-apis-startup-bags-4-5m-seed-funding/ Ex Parte: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2022/03/01/moneyball-for-law-prediction-startup-ex-parte-bags-7-5m/ Thirdfort: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2022/03/08/thirdfort-bags-19-7m-to-help-lawyers-beat-money-laundering/

In celebration of International Women's Day 2022 we spoke with Jodie Baker about the representation of women in the legal tech industry. Jodie is one of the founders of WALTA, the Women of Australian Legal Technology Association, as well as being a lawyer and a highly successful legal tech entrepreneur. We covered many aspects of this important topic, including: * How the representation of women in legal tech compares to that of men * How the rate of funding for female-led legal tech start ups significantly lags that of male-led legal tech start ups * Why it is important to strive for equality in this space * Some causes of the existing inequality, and what can potentially be done to address it * Examples of exciting female-led legal tech businesses * Where we can aim to be in the medium to long-term future LINKS Jodie Baker on LinkedIn: https://au.linkedin.com/in/jodiebakerxakia WALTA website: https://alta.law/women-of-australian-legal-technology-association/

Alex and Elliot chat about: * Checkbox's recent US$4.5m capital raise * LawNext's new legal tech directory * Google's AI-based contract review service, Contract DocAI * Whether or not lawyers should have an ethical obligation to be efficient (spoiler: probably not) LINKS Checkbox capital raise: https://www.businessnewsaustralia.com/articles/checkbox-raises-6-3-m-to-take-automated-app-builder-global.html LawNext's legal tech directory: https://directory.lawnext.com/directory-companies/categories/contract-lifecycle-management/ Contract DocAI: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2021/11/18/google-tells-artificial-lawyer-about-its-contract-docai-strategy/ Efficiency as an ethical obligation: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2022/02/14/what-if-lawyers-had-an-ethical-obligation-to-be-efficient/

We’re back! It’s a new year and that means almost every legal tech publication has its own predictions for 2022 and beyond. To save you reading them, and to add some spice, Alex and Elliot discuss the eight predictions they find to be the most interesting, compelling and, in some cases… the most wrong. They cover: * AI and Machine Learning * Platformization * Blockchain * Spend on technology vs people * Increased use of cloud services * Investment in legal tech * Security and risk * Hybrid working LINKS Legal Insider predictions: https://bit.ly/3sl5uZsPredictions for contracts and CLM: https://bit.ly/3owkDWBPredictions for the business of law and ALSPs: https://bit.ly/3B3LKgSPredictions for Legal Technology Innovation: https://bit.ly/34nqoizPredictions for Remote Work and COVID-19: https://bit.ly/3B4EK3t

And… that’s a wrap for 2021! Alex and Elliot are joined by a very special guest to reflect on the year and cast their minds forward to 2022. They discuss the podcast’s incredible growth, their favourite episodes and what they’ve learned from the awesome guests who have appeared on the show this year. They also offer their predictions on what will happen in legal ops in 2022, including the changes they expect to see in the legal tech market and likely developments in the legal services space. Finally, they discuss what we can expect from the podcast next year. The podcast will be taking a break over the Christmas and New Year period. We’ll be back with more great legal ops content in early 2022.