Rainer on Leadership

In this episode, Thom and Sam explore one of the most sobering questions church leaders face: Why do formerly active members quietly disappear for good? After years of research with people who once attended faithfully but haven’t returned to any church for at least two years, clear patterns emerge. Most departures aren’t dramatic or theological. They’re gradual.

In this episode, Josh and Sam explore what sets apart pastors who stay at one church for ten, twenty, or even thirty years and still lead with energy and joy. Long-tenured pastors aren’t just “hanging on.” They’ve built habits that sustain both their soul and their ministry. They’ve weathered criticism, resisted the lure of greener grass, and chosen faithfulness over constant movement.

In this episode, Josh and Sam explore what sets apart pastors who stay at one church for ten, twenty, or even thirty years and still lead with energy and joy. Long-tenured pastors aren’t just “hanging on.” They’ve built habits that sustain both their soul and their ministry. They’ve weathered criticism, resisted the lure of greener grass, and chosen faithfulness over constant movement.

Sam interviews Todd Brown and Isaac Brown of Brown Church Development Group. A growing number of church leaders, architects, and donors are reconsidering what sacred space should look like. In this episode, we explore the rise of the hyper-traditionalist movement in church architecture—a revival of classical, Gothic, Romanesque, Byzantine, and other historic styles that aim to communicate permanence, beauty, and theological depth. While this movement is still niche in North America, it is more than an aesthetic preference. It reflects a broader conviction that church buildings should feel unmistakably sacred rather than utilitarian or disposable.

In this episode, Josh and Sam use a striking metaphor to talk about church health: fault lines and tsunamis. Just like unseen shifts beneath the ocean floor can trigger devastating waves, hidden weaknesses inside a church can quietly build until the damage is sudden and overwhelming. The good news? Fault lines can be repaired before disaster strikes. The call for leaders is simple: face reality now, simplify ministry, refocus on mission, and deal with issues while they’re still manageable.

In this episode, we break down Ryan Burge’s demographic analysis of American Protestant churches and the uncomfortable math behind membership decline. Using age-distribution data across major denominations, Burge argues many churches aren’t stable—they’re simply being “buoyed by the Baby Boomers.” With modal ages in the late 60s, shrinking numbers of young adults, and fewer children in the pipeline, many groups are approaching a demographic tipping point. Decline won’t be gradual; it will feel slow and then sudden. Unless leaders plan now, some denominations could lose 30–50% of their adult members over the next couple of decades. The message is clear: this isn’t a theological or programmatic problem. It’s an actuarial problem, and the clock is already ticking.

In this episode, Josh and Sam address a widespread reality in many churches: bloated membership rolls and shrinking attendance. Across North America, millions of names remain on church rolls even though those people haven’t attended in months... or years. In some cases, membership lists are four or five times larger than actual weekly worship attendance. The result? Confusion, unhealthy metrics, and weakened accountability. A growing number of congregations are rethinking the issue: clarifying expectations, tightening processes, and distinguishing between truly inactive members and those with legitimate life circumstances.

For decades, 11:00 a.m. was the “sacred hour” of church life—the assumed, unquestioned start time for Sunday worship. But that era is fading fast. In this episode, Thom and Sam unpack the data and on-the-ground observations showing how churches are rethinking when they gather. From earlier services to multiple options to non-Sunday gatherings, flexibility is replacing tradition. What once served an agrarian culture no longer fits modern family rhythms. Growing churches are adapting their schedules to remove barriers and create more on-ramps for attendance.

When a crisis hits a church, the first few hours can either build trust or break it. In this episode, Sam interviews crisis communication expert Amy Whitfield and walks through what to say (and not say) immediately after a church crisis. We talk about the first statement, the first 24 hours, and the common missteps that unintentionally escalate confusion, fear, or anger. Amy offers practical language that pastors and church leaders can actually use, along with guardrails for accuracy and accountability, especially when facts are still developing.

Churches that are laser-focused on these five commitments tend to experience a continuous cycle of healthy church growth, while churches that allow the urgency of the moment to distract them from these commitments tend to experience decline. Thom and Sam discuss the new book, "Crucial Commitments."

Josh and Sam discuss what makes an ideal church member from the pastor's perspective. They pull some descriptions from some of their favorite members and talk about what they love about them.

While some church power struggles stem from bad actors, a more common cause is blurred lines. In this episode, Thom and Sam tackle one of the most common sources of church dysfunction: confusion between what the board should do and what the staff should do.

Josh and Sam have a little fun and pull back the curtain on some personal quirks of pastors.

Institutional trust has collapsed nationwide across all age groups, but Gen Z is entering adulthood at historically low levels of trust toward institutions and toward other people. Yet there is a surprising glimmer of hope when it comes to religious institutions. Compared to Millennials, Gen Z shows slightly more openness to trusting the church, suggesting the story is not over. On this edition of The Burge Report, we discuss what pastors and churches can do to build bridges with Gen Z.

Many Christians feel uneasy simply throwing away a damaged or worn Bible. While there are no official rules, Josh and Sam discuss several thoughtful and reverent ways to handle a copy of Scripture that has served its purpose.

Ministry today and in the future will necessitate more co-vocational pastors and church leaders. What about full-time pastors who need to supplement their income? A side job may relieve financial pressure, expand skills, and create meaningful community connections outside the church. However, it can also be a distraction and create divided attention.

On this episode, Josh and Sam discuss some critical functions of their work as pastors that are not included in the typical church job description.

Churches rarely maintain success in a single ministry for 25 years, but one church has figured it out. In this episode, Sam sits down with Upward Sports Ambassador Donnie Sisk from First Baptist Church Pelham in Pelham, Alabama. For more than 25 years, Donnie has used sports ministry—especially basketball—to connect with families and share the gospel. His church now hosts a thriving league with over 170 players, creating a strong bridge to the community. Recently, Donnie added pickleball, discovering that its smaller, more relational format opens the door to deeper conversations and intentional discipleship. Donnie shares how recreation can move beyond programs and become a powerful pathway for outreach, relationships, and life change.

Josh and Sam have a personal conversation about the ways they are intentionally working to keep their marriages healthy.

Though there have certainly been more difficult times in the course of church history for pastors, leading a church today is much tougher than it was 20 and 30 years ago. There have been some demographic and cultural shifts that reflect this reality. But some of the challenges can only be understood in the context of spiritual warfare. On this episode, Thom and Sam discuss six reasons why pastors must be more courageous today.

In this tongue-in-cheek episode, Josh and Sam discuss their top annoyances as pastors. Everyone has their pet peeves, and the co-hosts share theirs.

In this episode, Ryan Burge and Sam examine newly released national survey data that reveal a significant shift in how young adults understand and report gender identity. Drawing on high-quality data from the Cooperative Election Study, the research shows a clear and statistically meaningful decline in the share of 18–22-year-olds identifying as transgender since 2020, with similar downward trends appearing across older age cohorts as well.While 2020 appears to be a high-water mark, likely shaped by unique social and cultural conditions during the pandemic, subsequent years show a “snap back” toward a lower baseline. The discussion also explores how transgender identification intersects with politics, education, and religiosity, noting substantial declines among young Democrats and among religious young adults.For church leaders, this episode offers an important reminder: cultural narratives move quickly, but long-term ministry requires patience, clarity, and compassion. Understanding real data, rather than headlines, helps churches respond with both truth and grace.

Lead pastors often provide management oversight of staff. But should they know what church staff give to the church? Josh and Sam break down the arguments on both sides, examine potential safeguards, and discuss how church culture and pastoral character shape the best approach.

How does a church grow without relying on people transferring from other congregations? Thom and Sam take a dive into this topic.

One of the biggest mistakes church leaders can make is assuming that abuse won’t happen in their churches. The belief that “it can’t happen here” is dangerously naïve. Any organization that works with children and other vulnerable individuals can be a target for predators. Satan specifically aims to attack churches and seeks to harm children and vulnerable people. Josh and Sam discuss this very important topic of safety.

If your church cares about reaching the next generation, there’s an upstream strategy that strengthens every part of ministry: investing in marriages. Children’s and youth ministries matter deeply, but without discipling the parents who shape the spiritual culture of the home, churches often work harder than they need to. When marriages grow in grace, stability fills the home, volunteers serve with joy, teens show up more open, and the entire church experiences deeper unity. Brad Rhoads of Grace Marriage joins Sam on this episode. They explore why marriage discipleship isn’t just another ministry. It’s the source that feeds every other stream of church life, creating a generational ripple effect of gospel impact.

Are aging churches a real problem? The US population has a median age of 39 years old. Most denominations have a median age of congregants close to 60 years old. Josh and Sam discuss why churches are a generation older than their surrounding communities. What are the implications of the aging trend in churches?

Big events can be a way for churches to reach people, but they often fail to draw people back once the event is done. Thom and Sam unpack what it actually takes to turn community events into gospel opportunities.

Josh and Sam talk about the rising tide of gambling addiction in the U.S., fueled by the explosion of online betting and sports wagering. With millions of adults and youth affected, and billions lost in social and personal costs, the issue is quickly becoming a pastoral and congregational challenge. This episode highlights the scope of the crisis, why it’s escalating, and how the church can respond with clarity, compassion, and practical care.

While big cities often dominate attention and resources, it is the small towns and rural communities where congregations are disappearing fastest and where the church’s presence is most at risk. Thom and Sam explore why revitalizing and supporting small churches is essential for the future of Christian witness and how these congregations uniquely embody relational, community-anchoring ministry that larger models simply cannot replicate.

Josh and Sam tackle a growing and uncomfortable reality for pastors: what to do when one of your own church members becomes an online troll. The cohosts explore how to discern genuine critics from disruptive trolls, protect your church’s unity and safety, and lead with grace even when someone is trying to provoke you publicly.

Only one denomination in the United States has grown consistently. Drawing from nearly fifty years of data, Ryan Burge’s analysis shows a denomination that has not only maintained stability but also demonstrated resilience, growth, and demographic vitality. From membership and attendance trends to conversion inflows and racial diversity, the Assemblies of God presents a statistical profile that is almost entirely positive, even after the shock of COVID-19. While many traditions wrestle with long-term decline, the Assemblies of God appears poised for continued strength.

Is the strength of our prayer life really measured in minutes? And what if shorter, consistent rhythms of prayer throughout the day lead to a more sustainable, joyful connection with God? In this episode, Josh and Sam explore how pastors and church leaders can cultivate a meaningful prayer life without tying their spiritual health to a stopwatch.

Thom and Sam interview Dr. Andy Miller, the president of Wesley Biblical Seminary, to explore what every potential seminary student needs to consider before enrolling. While seminary can provide clarity and theological depth, it is not a magic formula for ministry success. This discussion breaks down the practical steps every prospective student should consider.

Most nonprofit organizations have clear visibility into donor activity: who gives, how often, and how much. But churches often treat data on giving very differently. Should pastors know who is giving in their churches? Josh and Sam take a fresh look at this sensitive and often misunderstood topic.

In this episode, Thom and Sam shine a light on a trend few church leaders see: the silent exodus of senior adults. While much attention is given to reaching Millennials and Gen Z, an equally significant group is slowly drifting away: older adults who once formed the backbone of many congregations. Their departure isn’t loud or dramatic. It’s subtle: an empty pew, a missing volunteer, a longtime member who quietly stops attending.

Josh and Sam discuss the best way to handle Super Bowl Sunday. Should churches say anything about it? Play into the day with gimmicks to increase attendance? What's the best approach?

A surprisingly high number of churchgoers attend because someone simply invited them. In this episode, Sam and Thom unpack why 60% might be the most overlooked and powerful number in church outreach today.

In this episode, Josh and Sam explore what happens when a church becomes discouraged and how God restores hope in a congregation that feels stuck, tired, or overwhelmed. Discouragement drains energy, distorts reality, and slowly turns a church inward. Encouragement is both spiritual and strategic. It starts with leaders who refuse to catastrophize and instead cast vision. Pessimists predict failure. Realists describe what is. But optimistic, faith-filled leaders show what could be.

In 2006, Simple Church encouraged churches to streamline programming, clarify discipleship pathways, and focus on moving people toward spiritual maturity rather than filling calendars with activities. The book had a significant impact, shaping how thousands of pastors thought about ministry systems and structure. Nearly two decades later, Thom and Sam take a fresh look: What principles stood the test of time? What challenges emerged in practice? And how should churches apply Simple Church today in a ministry landscape that’s more complex, digital, and post-pandemic than ever?

Letting a staff member go is one of the hardest leadership moments a pastor will ever face. Churches are relational environments, and employment decisions are deeply personal. But there are times when releasing someone is the most loving, wise, and responsible step—for the staff member, for the team, and for the health of the church. In this episode, Josh and Sam talk through how to navigate this complex process with clarity, compassion, and integrity.

In this episode, we look at Ryan Burge’s latest analysis showing how the modern Democratic coalition is being pulled apart by widening religious divides. While Republicans continue to draw support from a largely Christian voter base, Democrats now include two groups with opposite religious profiles: highly secular white voters and deeply religious voters of color. This creates major messaging and policy tensions within the party, tensions that didn’t exist at the same scale in earlier decades.

As churches grow, leaders often reach a tipping point where the senior pastor can no longer carry the full weight of vision, preaching, pastoral care, administration, staff oversight, and organizational leadership. That’s when the question arises: Is it time to hire an Executive Pastor? In this episode, Josh and Sam unpack what an Executive Pastor actually does, why this role has become more common across church sizes, and how to know whether your church is ready for one.

Many are tired of online worship. What happened? When the pandemic forced churches online, digital worship seemed like the future. Congregations grew virtually, and pastors reached audiences they never imagined. But five years later, that momentum has faded. The church is discovering what technology can—and cannot—do for worship. On this episode, Thom and Sam explore why online engagement has declined and how churches can find balance between digital convenience and in-person community.

Every pastor has seen it. Churches splitting hairs over things that don’t matter. Beard length. Carpet color. Playground equipment. These disputes may sound absurd, but they reveal something much deeper. Small conflicts are rarely about what they seem. Beneath the surface, emotions, control, and trust are at play. In this episode, Josh and Sam explore why trivial fights erupt in churches, what they reveal about church health, and how leaders can keep the small stuff from becoming spiritual landmines.

Church attendance is both a helpful tool and a potential trap. Numbers can reveal momentum, but they can also distort priorities if leaders focus on counting heads instead of making disciples. In this episode, Thom and Sam unpack the healthy and unhealthy ways to measure worship attendance, and how pastors can move from chasing growth to cultivating spiritual health.

Most New Year’s resolutions focus inward on personal growth, habits, and goals. On this episode, Josh and Sam challenge church leaders to flip the script on traditional resolutions by making them about the people you serve, not yourself. Instead of trying to become a better version of you, resolve to make those around you better.

Nearly five years after COVID-19 lockdowns, the research reveals surprising truths about how Americans engage with church online and what that means for pastors and ministry leaders.While 91% of churches now livestream services, only about 14% of Americans watch weekly. Most online viewers are also in-person attenders, meaning livestreams tend to serve already-committed believers rather than reaching the unchurched. The dream of a large “online-only” congregation just doesn’t match the numbers. In this episode of the Burge Report, Ryan, Thom, and Sam give their key takeaways.

The week after Christmas—those quiet days between December 26 and New Year’s—is often the lightest week of the year for pastors. After weeks of preparing Advent services, coordinating Christmas Eve worship, managing volunteers, and caring for members in a season that’s both joyful and emotionally draining, pastors finally exhale.This week isn’t about laziness; it’s about recovery. The adrenaline of December ministry fades, the calendar clears, and the phone stops ringing. Even the most active church members are traveling, resting, or spending time with family. For once, the pastor doesn’t have to be “on.” Josh and Sam discuss why this week is so light and so important.

Thom and Sam dive into Ryan Burge’s latest analysis of the 2023–2024 Pew Religious Landscape Survey, which asked nearly 37,000 Americans a simple question: “How happy are you with your life these days?” The results reveal one of the clearest and most consistent findings in social science. Religious people report being happier than non-religious people.