A HOP Podcast (With No Name)

The "thrilling" conclusion of our Organizational Psychology discussion centered around problem definition and solutioning.

We discuss the change in how we define our problems when we shift from individual psychology to organizational psychology. Also, for those keeping score, it is the "oak" episode.

We're taking a break from our current mini-series about Organizational Psychology to share what's been on our mind. We share our recent realization and what keeps us up at night.

We give a comparison of two ways you can operationally learn using the key ideas from episode 77. What's it like to learn only focusing on behavior vs. what is it like to learn with curiosity (even if you're not trusted).

We moving on from Complexity science and looking at the role of Organizational Psychology in HOP.

The (thrilling?) conclusion to our Complexity discussion. We do some live operational learning role play about Andy's morning and learn about the "Big 5". We end with some area to dip your toe into operational learning if this is new to you.

We attempt multiple ways of operational learning using Andy's morning to show how even best intentions cannot makeup for linear thinking.

The complexity discussion continued! This one includes a story of Andy and Matt operationally learning about normal (but not common) work.

We continue our complexity discussion and get into some tangible examples.

We're taking a couple of weeks off and will be back with our regularly scheduled episodes on 1/14/2026

We're starting a new mini-series around how we define "what HOP is" and the 3 key elements that differentiate from other practices. First up, Complexity Science.

We explore a challenge that seems to impact all of the places we visit - defining a problem when a perfect solution does not exist.

We discuss how Bloom's Taxonomy highlights a need for change in how HOP learners apply the principles (and beyond).

We discuss how changing the way we view discipline as a way to drive accountability does not mean that we lower expectations of our teams or the people we work with.

We discuss what it's like to constantly push for change in an organization that is set in its ways. Also, there may be a poem released at some point?

We respond to a listener question about "How do I know that I know enough about HOP to start applying it at work".Andy's recommendations:(Academic works that explain foundational concepts)The Social Psychology of Organizing - Weick Understanding Complexity - Professor Scott E. PageHow the Mind Works - Steven PinkerThe Effectiveness of Restorative Justice Practices - Jeff Latimer, Craig Dowden, Danielle Muise (2001)(Books specific to the HOP space)Managing the Unexpected - Karl E. Weick and Kathleen M. SutcliffeSafety-II in Practice - Erik HollnagelJoint Cognitive Systems - David D. Woods and Erik HollnagelJustice Culture - Sidney DekkerThe Field Guide to Understanding Human Error - DekkerPre-Accident Investigation - Todd Conklin(Books where practitioners tell stories about using some HOP concepts)Beyond Blame - Dave Zwieback Bob's Guide to Operational Learning - Bob Edwards and Andrea Baker(Additional helpful works that touch on some gaps) Humble Inquiry - Edgar H. Schein and Peter A. ScheinRaising Human Beings - Ross W. GreeneChaos Engineering - Casey Rosenthal & Nora JonesSurfing the Edge of Chaos - Richard T. Pascale, Mark Millemann, and Linda Goija

We share some ideas we have for future episodes, but ask for you to give us direction. Let us know what you'd like us to focus on.

Andy is often asked how HOP and Operational Learning can be used in parenthood. So with her oldest daughter's first day of school tomorrow, we decided to do some operational learning about how Penelope is feeling going into the big day.

Well, we decided to end this mini-series with a big one. Andy argues that all accidents are not preventable and what we should be doing about.

We continue our argument/counterargument series with point 3 - We cannot tolerate exceptions to cardinal rules.

We continue our "both sides of the debate" series - this time it's all about accountability.

Andy (and with a little help from from Chat GPT) begins her counterargument against herself from episode 59. There first point: "Root cause does (not) exist"

In an attempt to model a debate team, we argue against HOP, the problems (we're told) it causes, and why we should continue with the status quo.

(Trigger warning: suicide) Andy and Matt discuss a recent series of interactions they've had with Leaders, the Frontline workers, and how the reality of work often doesn't make it to the top.

We play a "mind game" of sending Andy back to one of her previous HSE roles with her existing HOP knowledge and ask what she would do differently - all of which we recorded in during a long drive.

We talk about discreet changes that can be made in conversations and the questions we ask to "do HOP".

Andy shares what an organization could look like as it grows and evolves over time with the implementation of HOP.

We continue our conversation about how HOP can be brought into an organization with the "site pilot" example - how one site (or a few sites depending on company size) can try HOP before the organization makes a large shift.

The journey (or should I say powerpoint?) continues. We focus on how can you finally start rolling out HOP inside your organization. Link for paper reference: http://matt.colorado.edu/papers/StatisticalInvalidityOfTRIR.pdf

What comes after step 0? We discuss how to take your newly shifted beliefs and put them into action.

Andy and Matt discuss "step 0" or what you need to ask yourself before you try to bring HOP into an organization.

We celebrate 50 episodes of A HOP Podcast (with no name) and share what it's been like from our perspective.

Andy and Matt share their key takeaways and learnings from the episodes with Erik and Ron.

The thrilling conclusion to our time with Erik and Ron discussing their individual and business HOP development.

We continue our conversation with Erik and Ron and learn more details of what it was like to navigate the HOP related changes together.

We continue our conversation with Erik and Ron. This time we focus on the details of what had to change both personally and as a business for the HOP Transformation to progress.

We continue our story with Erik and Ron - moving onto what it was like to shift focus from safety metrics (like TRIR) to prioritizing real human safety outcomes.

We welcome guests Erik (former CEO at Aera Energy) and Ron (Former HSE Manager at Aera Energy) for a mini-series on what it was like to go through a HOP transformation both personally and as a business.

We finish the story of how Andy navigates her own frustration and blame when working with some leaders.

We take a listeners question on how to help people who have started practicing HOP but are struggling with blame shifting from those doing the work to supervisors/investigators. This quickly becomes Matt's favorite episode as we have a conversation with Andy while she is struggling with actively blaming a group of people.

We wrap up the story from episode 40 and discuss how you can bridge the gap from completing operational learning to implementing a solution that may take months to years.

We discuss different ways you can approach seeing someone break a rule and why going in the HOP direction can increase accountability.

Andy and Matt discuss what HOP means to them inside and outside of work. Also, do we feel it is really worth all the extra effort and energy? (spoiler alert - yes)

We use two (hopefully helpful) analogies to describe what we mean when we say "HOP is not a program". Andrea shares a personal story with her daughter about how she applies this change in thought process to resolving conflict.

Andy finishes her "glove story" and shares how she came to understand what "capacity to fail safely" meant.

Andy shares her personal story of understanding what it means to "design differently" in HOP and how we can build more resilient systems.

We break down how we explain what HOP is and what happens if we change the way we think.

The (thrilling) conclusion to Andy's list of behaviors she changed while working at a large organization after learning about HOP.

Andrea continues sharing her personal examples of when she individually "did HOP" while at a large organization.

We continue with Andrea's examples of behaviors she changed while working at a large organizations in a safety role.