Episodes

5d ago

If you want 2025 in a nutshell, it doesn't get much better than a blundering Secretary of Defense bragging that the Pentagon bought an expensive, bespoke AI bot and it immediately started calling out the Trump administration for committing war crimes . As the legal industry ventures into a hallucinatory AI frontier, it's worth remembering that sometimes the bots outperform the human lawyers. At the Supreme Court, Justice Sotomayor tries to convince her colleagues not to blow up the federal government over a theory concocted in the 1970s. Sadly, she's fighting the wrong fight . And in a world of mergers -- especially cross-border mergers -- we have a reminder that sometimes it doesn't work out .

Dec 10

And the DOJ continues to be a hot mess. ----- Kim Kardashian is trying to enter the legal profession without a law school education. The bar exam is a deeply flawed and largely unnecessary test, but the best case for having some kind of licensing exam is to make sure anyone taking an alternative path to a law license meets the minimum requirements for a lawyer. Meanwhile, the Trump administration continues to oscillate between bluster and blunder. Lindsey Halligan's doomed reign as quasi U.S. Attorney draws an ethics complaint. Luckily for her, the Virginia State Bar has no interest in doing its job . And Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche is threatening lawyers to stop pointing out DOJ mistakes.

Dec 3

And a shorter summer associate program. ----- While most of us celebrated Thanksgiving, some of Trump's phony U.S. Attorneys were the real turkeys. First, a conservative leaning panel of the Eleventh Circuit affirmed the million dollar sanctions against Donald Trump and the parking garage lawyer he claims to have running the District of New Jersey. Then his Eastern District cosplaying prosecutor managed to lose not one, but two of the high profile revenge cases she brought. In other news, a major firm announced a new look summer associate program as it tries to deal with the law school recruiting free-for-all that everyone hates, yet no one seems able to do anything about.

Nov 26

Bonuses and botched prosecutions. ----- Bonus season is underway , and Biglaw firms are lining up to reward associates for a year's worth of effort. The market scale -- unless some firm breaks rank and crashes the party -- tracks last year, which can be a bit anticlimactic, but with the economy possibly resting on the precipice of recession, this was probably all we could hope for. Also, we discuss Lindsey Halligan's epic fail in the James Comey case -- and we recorded this before the judge tossed the case. Finally, Judge Jerry Smith decided to commit his unhinged conspiracy theories to paper in a massive, doorstop of a dissent in the Texas redistricting case. And we discuss Thanksgiving sides.

Nov 19

But seriously, what would be a good legal dominatrix name? ------ Biglaw recruiting director out after racist rant goes public . A squabble between lawyers and their former firm presents important lessons on document management, but we spend most of the time wondering about the best legally themed dominatrix names . And we talk about Paul Weiss getting heckled at the New York Bar Foundation awards gala, providing one more embarrassing story to a rough year.

Nov 12

And Kirkland tries a little tenderness. FedSoc does not. ----- The news that Kirkland had to teach its lawyers how to stop being mean to the private equity industry is incredibly funny. We're not saying Kirkland is getting a bad rap here, but when did corporate clients become such fragile snowflakes? The Federalist Society's annual meeting brought together the leading minds of the Trump legal movement to call for a "war" to impeach the federal judges -- many of them longtime conservatives themselves -- for not appropriately facilitating the administration. And the DOJ completes its humiliation in the D.C. sandwich thrower case by failing to secure even a misdemeanor conviction .

Nov 5

DOJ punishing lawyers, the future of the billable hour, and dark times for public interest work. ----- We talk about the DOJ lawyers suspended by the White House for calling January 6 a riot in a sentencing memo. and the conversation veers down a rabbit hole about the proper role of pardons. For years, the billable hour seemed like the cockroach of law firm management, but after surviving numerous brushes with death, AI might finally force firms to look into alternative fee structures . And if you're in law school and thinking about serving the public interest, expect it to be a lot more expensive unless your future employer is blessed by the Trump administration .

Oct 29

And a Biglaw firm seeks help while an in-house attorney blows up her career. ----- Catching up with the slice of the conservative legal movement who have stared into the moral abyss of the Trump administration and recoiled in horror. The Society for the Rule of Law held its annual summit and while many attendees voiced clear-eyed opposition, some continued to grapple with the cognitive dissonance in recognizing that Trump might be the natural and logical consequence of their own long championed conservative projects. One attendee who has no illusions over the gravity of the threat though was Judge Michael Luttig who railed against the Supreme Court in the legal equivalent of a rousing halftime locker room speech. Also, Cadwalader seems increasingly at an existential crossroads and looking for a merger partner . And a lawyer loses her job over ballpark rant -- and what's more, her team lost.

Oct 22

Also frivolous lawsuits and the insidiousness of dishonest analysis. ----- Appeals court decides that some things are best left unsaid. And among those things are calling your judge the c-word . Just so we're clear, even though this was over Zoom, we're not talking about "cat." After trying to bully Michigan Law Review through litigation, the anti-DEI publicity hounds at FASORP have dropped the case . And with Trump inching closer to declaring martial law in America's cities, right-leaning legal analysts have started the process of normalizing abuse of the Insurrection Act by pretending its strict limits are really just open-ended invitations and if anyone's to blame for Donald Trump's authoritarianism, it's really Joe Biden. We manage to talk about AI and Baudrillard in a single episode.

Oct 15

Just in time for the AI slop to take over. ----- Some law firms are handing out recruiting entertainment budgets to law students . While we don't fault law students some sweet walking around money, placing that power in the hands of students highlights the breakdown in the law school recruiting process and a real risk of baking more bias into hiring. Why has Kirkland memory holes its incoming partner class ? The decision to opt out of its traditional announcement message seems like a move to shield its high-achievers, but there are some other possibilities. And a Senator wants some answers after a pair of federal judges issue opinions with possible (read: likely) AI hallucinations .

Oct 8

One can only hope. ----- For a long time, the bar exam seemed like the nasty habit that the legal profession just couldn't quit. But there's finally some progress on that front, with Utah unveiling a new alternative pathway to licensure that values experience and the skills that an actual practitioner needs . We also check in on Cadwalader, where the firm brings on a new co-manager while taking some serious blows in the lateral market. Finally, the Supreme Court is back in session, so we look back at the summer of shadows, when the Court's shadow docket finally crashed into the reality of a president unwilling to play the game and Justice Thomas shed a little light on his decision to bail on teaching his class after Dobbs .

Oct 1

Biglaw capitulators face new challenge and James Comey gets indicted. ----- Perennially embattled Cooley Law School once again called out by the ABA over sagging bar passage rates . The school has been out of compliance with ABA standards since 2020, and now finds itself on probation with its accreditor. The last time something like this happened, Cooley sued the ABA into relenting. History is a flat circle. After learning that Paul Weiss and Kirkland were providing free legal services to the Commerce Department, presumably in an effort to satisfy their pro bono payola obligations, we wondered how this could possibly be legal in light of 31 U.S.C. 1342. Apparently, lawmakers wondered the same thing . And James Comey finds himself indicted after a whirlwind that involved removing the existing top federal prosecutor for refusing to file a sham case and replacing him with an in-over-her-head Florida insurance lawyer .

Sep 24

Law firm fires lawyer over Kirk comments and law school announces new scholarships. ----- Perkins Coie cut ties with an attorney over Charlie Kirk comments on social media . The remarks were measured and reasonable, but the firm is still fighting the Trump administration in court and -- seemingly -- does not want any distractions or mere appearance of bias. But is that a worthy excuse? A Pillsbury partner received a benchslapping over what the judge considered unchecked entitlement . A Biglaw partner? Entitled? No! Also, a law school responds to the new federal loan caps with guaranteed scholarships to cover the gap. Is this the start of a trend?

Sep 17

Compare and contrast as ACB and Sotomayor ride (media) circuit. ----- Amy Coney Barrett and Sonia Sotomayor are both hitting the talk shows and it's highlighting how awkward the nation's relationship with the Supreme Court really is. Barrett went on Fox and accurately stated that the Constitution prohibits Trump running for a third term. Then the host offered a "wink wink" prompt and she started backpedaling . Meanwhile, Sotomayor went on Colbert and bent over backward to give her conservative colleagues the benefit of the doubt, requiring Colbert to step in and remind us of the fire in Sotomayor's dissent. Two very different media hits, but a consistent reminder that the justices just aren't willing to forge a genuine connection with the public over media. Also, Ropes & Gray maintains a single-tier partnership (for now) and Megan Thee Stallion case introduces the world to process servers taking things up a notch .

Sep 10

Law school is more expensive than it used to be... but barely more expensive! ----- Federal judges have had to deal with more and more threats from conservatives whipped into up by the Trump administration rhetoric blasting judges blocking illegal executive orders, only to be unceremoniously overruled by the Supreme Court. Last week, multiple judges called out the Republican justices for issuing unexplained opinions refusing to challenge -- indeed, passively encouraging -- Trump's attacks. So much for Chief Justice Roberts sanctimoniously declaring that the threats are just a product of the public not understanding the opinions . Law school tuition has skyrocketed in real terms for decades, but based on the last 10 years, the fever may finally have broken . Meanwhile, Amy Coney Barrett has some books to sell! And she's going to do it by playing up her image as the tortured, yet principled conservative who strips Americans of long enshrined freedoms, but just because she has no other choice. And, as she made clear in Dobbs , women and choice just don't mix!

Sep 3

The Department of Justice is having a rough time getting those trumped up charges (pun intended) from the fed's takeover of D.C. to stick. Plus lawyer getting slammed for trying to use opposing counsel's premature baby as leverage. And infamous law professor Amy Wax has her legal case against University of Pennsylvania thrown out of court, but it's unlikely to be the end of her antics.

Aug 27

We know where some of those pro bono payola hours are going. ----- Be prepared to be on the clock a lot longer at King & Spalding, where the firm has introduced a 2400 hour “productive” time target . In other words, attorneys will have to figure out how to describe 2400 hours worth of work to the firm’s billing software every year. This seems to follow the overarching retreat from the work from home era, which also made news this week with a firm announcing a new office mandate… but just for some associates . Justice Jackson drew upon a generational touchstone to succinctly describe the Supreme Court majority’s jurisprudence. And a pair of the spineless firms are providing free legal services to the Commerce Department .

Aug 20

Law firms get some worrying numbers from last quarter. ----- The new D.C. folk hero who threw a sandwich at Trump's surge publicity stunt turned out to be a DOJ attorney . He's been fired because this administration will not stand for disrespecting law enforcement... unless they're trying to kill Capitol police officers on January 6. Meanwhile, the legal industry enjoyed a muted quarter. Are they preparing to batten down the hatches for a recession ? Supreme Court begins moving the pieces into place to tear down Obergefell.

Aug 13

Milbank delighted with special summer bonuses , ranging from $6-25 thousand, for associates. And that's great for them! But where are all the matches? We have a theory on when associates at other firms will be able to cash in. There was some fishiness (now resolved) with the constitution on congress's website. Which, honestly, should be more shocking than it is. Biglaw partner lateral moves are all the rage, with some major moves this summer. But not everyone is benefitting from the hotness of the lateral market -- all because of a little thing called due diligence.

Aug 6

And Coldplay and pierogis. ----- A woman went into cardiac arrest during the New York bar exam . Thankfully, the administrators responded swiftly. JUST KIDDING! They yelled at other examinees to be quiet and keep working on the test while they deliberated about calling for emergency assistance, according to multiple witnesses. The woman survived, but the bar exam's unwillingness to admit its mistakes expose the rotten incentives of this stupid, unnecessary test . The Coldplay jumbotron affair sparks litigation rumors ... which might be the only idea worse than taking your affair to a concert. And Alan Dershowitz is very angry that no one will sell him a pierogi .

Jul 30

Get it together, people! ----- It was a very bad week for lawyers and hallucinations. A federal judge had to withdraw an opinion with fake cites . One Biglaw firm fired a partner over an invented case , while another firm got tossed off a case over AI shenanigans . And the scribe of Ashurbanipal got mercilessly trolled by a judge pointing out that his fake AI cite apology included... another fake cite . Why does it seem like this is all getting worse? A Biglaw firm pushes its start date leaving incoming associates in the lurch and Alina Habba might be the U.S. Attorney for New Jersey. Or maybe not . Or maybe yes .

Jul 16

Lots to chew on this week. ----- Biglaw summer associate let go after biting upwards of 15 people at the firm . Now that sounds crazy, but that's because it is. We also discuss a lawyer's biting response to a demand letter . A lot of the professional decorum advocates objected to the tone, but at a certain point how does the profession pushback against aggressive and unfounded demands without public shaming? There's not another readily accessible disincentive. Finally, we address the gnashing of teeth in conservative media ecosphere over Superman being an immigrant and the knots they're willing to tie themselves into in order to avoid the obvious.

Jul 9

Law firm mergers and John Roberts brags for the crowd. ----- Has the era of the mid-sized firm come to an end? Probably not, but with increasing nationalization and the financial pressures that go along with it, mid-sized firms are consolidating and a valuable segment (and price point!) may be lost. Lawyers have faced a steady stream of sanctions for citing fake cases generated by AI, but now a judge officially blessed an order based on AI-hallucinated cases as a critical firewall in the war against machine slop is breached. While AI holds out promise for access to justice, the risk of a lawless free-for-all looms. Speaking of lawless free-for-alls, the Chief Justice explains that he doesn't care about substantive criticism of the Court because he has votes and the critics don't.

Jul 2

The Term ended with a whole lot of nonsense. ----- Taking a sledgehammer where a chisel -- or better yet nothing -- would do, the Supreme Court nixed injunctions it didn't like by striking down the power to issue universal injunctions totally and addressed schools teaching that gay people exist by expanding strict scrutiny to parents lodging religious complaints . But at least they whined and took swipes at each other over it! Meanwhile, Justice Sonia Sotomayor figured out that if the majority wants to hide their rulings, the dissent can characterize them on their own . Also, the University of Florida Law School gave a top prize to a paper advocating a Whites-Only Constitution . The professor? Trump-appointed federal judge. The school's effort to explain itself left a lot to be desired .

Jun 25

And the Supreme Court has a wild one. ----- Except those judges aren't going to like it when you catch them. Like the poor lawyer here who called a judge "honey" during oral argument and entered a spiral of no return. We also had a dramatic week at the Supreme Court, with Justice Gorsuch trying to start something with Justice Jackson and Justice Jackson shutting it right down , and Sam Alito using his concurrence to complain that the transgender care ban is an act of discrimination... and the he wants the Court to be more proud of it. And Vault put out its law firm prestige rankings . Hopefully nothing went down immediately after their survey that radically changed how people perceive the firms!

Jun 18

Also, the role of bar associations in 2025. ----- According to a new survey, lawyers think their law firms are really tolerant of jerks . Are they right about that, or just overly sensitive? The DC Bar election ended in a blowout , but why? For all the complaining about some wild theories on social media, the simpler reason is that leading a bar association in 2025 means standing up to the administration and Pam Bondi's brother never convinced the members that he'd be able to do that. In fact, the right-wing fear of strong bar associations has gotten so serious that the Florida supreme court actively kneecapped their state bar . And we talk about attending David Lat's Original Jurisdiction party, which you should also be reading.

Jun 11

Caving law firms experience exodus. ----- Paul Weiss fancied itself clever when it offered Trump pro bono payola in exchange for dropping an illegal executive order. Instead it keeps hemorrhaging senior lawyers with more departing to join the recent rainmaker spinoff and associates reportedly high on the new firm's wish list. While litigators are largely driving defections from surrender firms, at what point does a hollowed out litigation department start to impact the firm as a whole? Harvard Law Review found itself harassed by the government and it looks like the reason might be a snitch burrowed into the White House . And the one-track partnership model took more hits with Ropes & Gray and Debevoise agreeing to add non-equity tiers.

Jun 4

Quite the combination of words. ----- Lawsuit against former Texas SG alleges bizarre cosmic sex fetish . The administration made two significant changes to the judicial nomination process, firing the ABA from its neutral evaluator role and kicking the Federalist Society to the curb . The latter move came with an epic rant declaring Leonard Leo a sleazebag. Broken clocks and all. And Kash Patel lays out the FBI's priorities and child predators and terrorists are now lower on the most wanted list than, "your neighbor who posted an 8647 joke."

May 28

From the administrative state to voting rights, they're just sort of winging it trying to reverse engineer results. ----- As Supreme Court season hits fever pitch, we're joined by Professor Leah Litman, author of Lawless: How the Supreme Court Runs on Conservative Grievance, Fringe Theories, and Bad Vibes , to discuss the nightmare we're facing. Elena Kagan took the opportunity to humiliate her colleagues last week calling out an arbitrary carve out created to protect their investments. Kagan's frustration seems to be growing down the stretch, having just eviscerated the government in the birthright citizenship case. Meanwhile, Kristi Noem failed introductory constitutional law in front of the Senate, flailing as she tried to define habeas corpus.

May 21

Seashellgate meets Surrendergate. ----- Since we're cursed to act as keepers of the flame to remind the legal community that several large law firms really did willingly sell out to the Trump administration, this week we discuss our columnist Vivia Chen's exploration of the unique impact of these moves on young lawyers learning early that Biglaw is more than happy to throw them under the bus . We also discuss how James Comey's Instagram pic triggered a tragicomic meltdown of some of the most deranged people on the internet ranting about seashells as a subliminal assassination threat worthy of John Wilkes Squarepants. Unfortunately, some of those internet denizens are also running federal law enforcement. And we conduct a lightning round of quirky Am Law 100 financial facts that will make you appreciate that you took some time off last year.

May 14

What if we just act like nothing happened? ----- Biglaw firms who gave in to Trump suffered a scathing 60 Minutes piece and key talent defections , so they've decided upon a new tactic: pretending they never made a deal at all ! It does not appear to be working. Meanwhile, Justice David Souter died reminding everyone of an era when the federal judiciary cared more about the right answer than appeasing political patrons. Unfortunately, Souter's nomination inadvertently triggered that change . And we have a Biglaw merging in the offing that hopes to create a new $2B firm .

May 7

It was a bad week to compromise your values. ----- Perkins Coie secured a permanent injunction against the Trump administration's retaliatory executive order. Meanwhile, firms that balked at putting up a fight against the illegal attacks have seen the White House drag them into police brutality cases and law schools start openly talking about students taking their talents elsewhere . And then the harshest cut of all -- a deep pocketed client bailed on a collaborator firm to give business to a firm standing up to Trump . Who could've predicted except anyone who ever watched Star Wars . Also we talk about California's latest bar exam debacle and the White House's threat against Amal Clooney .

Apr 30

The arrest of Wisconsin judge Hannah Dugan is straight outta dystopian fiction. But at least retired Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer still has faith in the system, which makes one of us. Speaking of the High Court, Justice Sam Alito's dissent would be laughable if he weren't so powerful.

Apr 23

And the world continues to melt. ----- We've got key financial data from the top law firms and the takeaway is that it's good to be a big firm. The Am Law 100 this year revealed that more and more firms have joined the super rich and things look bright for Biglaw. Unless someone triggers a global depression or something. We also discuss what it means to be "bipartisan" in an environment where the intellectual stars of the conservative legal movement are ALSO lining up to call out the Trump administration as a threat to the rule of law . Finally, we flag a troubling law school story about scholarships getting cut when admissions gets blindsided by applications.

Apr 16

US News and World Report released its most recent law school rankings with a side of chaos , but the big takeaway is the scrambling and erosion of the "T14" as an organizing concept. Is it time to dismiss the rankings as arbitrary ? At least until law schools agree to cooperate again. Also, Surrendergate continues and the "we'll do some pro bono for veterans" deal has turned dramatically, with the White House now claiming the authority to "assign" Biglaw firms to work on administration projects. Sound familiar? Along the way, firms are starting to lose senior lawyers fulfilling critical firm roles while the most recent defectors alienate the overwhelming majority of their team . Finally, the Supreme Court has issued some unanimous rebukes in defense of due process and the administration does not seem to care .

Apr 9

And now we have a tracker for that! ----- After a few weeks of watching some law firms stand up to facially illegal demands from the Trump administration... and more law firms rapidly cave to those same demands, we put together a helpful tracker to keep clients, potential laterals, and law students fully aware of where firms currently stand. But we depend on you out there to keep us up-to-date! Meanwhile, more associates have taken a stand against their surrendering firms and some law students have already told the firm recruiting events that they aren't interested in firms that can't stand up for themselves . Also the February bar exam numbers were terrible .

Apr 2

A great divide is developing. ----- Following the Paul Weiss surrender we discussed last week, Skadden preemptively followed suit agreeing to commit $100M in pro bono payola to the MAGA cause. Bringing to light some embarrassing email policies in the process . But other Biglaw firms showed a little more life, with Jenner & Block and WilmerHale suing the administration over its retaliatory executive orders. And a major firm announced an end to on-campus recruiting , which seems like a bad policy for both students and the firm.

Mar 26

Courage seems to be in short supply in Biglaw. ----- Paul Weiss folded immediately in the face of Trump's threat , offering the president pro bono services and a retreat from DEI. For a firm that built its reputation on litigation, the move came as a surprise. A Skadden associate called upon the industry to develop a backbone. So she's not going to be working there any more . There are a lot of dumb things about the administration's mass deportation to an El Salvadoran prison, but its unironic inversion of the burden of proof is definitely the scariest.

Mar 19

There's no escaping the administration's influence on the legal landscape. ----- The Trump administration continues its revenge tour against Biglaw, and Perkins Coie is fighting back. Through counsel at Williams & Connolly, Perkins delivered a scorching takedown of the administration's arbitrary retaliation against the firm, earning a partial TRO. Meanwhile, most of Biglaw remains silent . And if they aren't silent, they're silently deleting references to diversity, including a clumsy effort that autodeleted pronouns from email signatures . And "Stop the Steal" lawyer turned interim US Attorney Ed Martin has his first ethics complaint on the job he hasn't even really started.

Mar 12

ACB isn't having it. ----- Remember when Arrested Development made this a gag? John Roberts is living it out in real time as the president explains -- on national television -- that Roberts is a partisan hack . Amy Coney Barrett seems less excited about the prospect . Meanwhile, the administration is threatening law firms . The dean of one law school is stepping up . Also, what is this -- now former -- partner doing ?

Mar 5

And the new USNWR rankings are dealing with some crazy data. ----- We're not saying Diddy is an unsavory client, but we are saying Osama bin Laden's lawyer just noped out of continuing to represent him . We also got some limited insight into the US News rankings and there's some potential tumult at the top . And Judge Reyes had to blow up a hapless DOJ lawyer trying to defend the indefensible and the Trump administration displayed its inner snowflake .

Feb 26

The new federal deficit is the government's research deficit. ----- Elon Musk's aimless cost-cutting escapades turn to the SEC where DOGE slashed their Westlaw access because no one over there is smart enough to know how legal research works. Apparently now is an opportune time to start committing securities fraud! Speaking of aimless, former judge Alex Kozinski penned a meandering opinion piece about canceling elections in case, maybe, some president might want to consider it. And a few law schools quietly reworked their websites to remove diversity language . They probably won't be the last.

Feb 19

'Nah, you do that' is not a response that keeps lawyers employed. ----- Imagine the audacity it takes for a rookie lawyer to refuse to do the work assigned by a midlevel or senior associate. And expect to keep their job? The story of a beleaguered midlevel asking for help with an unruly junior refusing to work has us wondering if the kids are not all right. Also the administration starts calling for impeachment when a judge imposes a TRO of less than a week and that doesn't bode well for when they start losing real injunctions. And is there any legal question simpler than " the Twenty-Second Amendment limits presidents to two terms "?

Feb 12

And Biglaw begins adjusting to Trump era. ------ If United Healthcare considered spending more on a cancer patient and less on lawyers to sue doctors for pointing out they didn't spend on the cancer patient they wouldn't be getting so thoroughly dragged online. While the mockery they're getting is funny, this underscores the dangerous weaponization of defamation (and also copyright) laws, allowing deep pocketed antagonists to squelch criticism by filing low merit suits. Also, a Biglaw firm quietly scrubbed its website of a lot of its "diversity" language as the government steps up threats against private companies. And the ABA thinks the Supreme Court needs ethical rules . Chapters 0:00 Small Talk 9:50 UnitedHealthcare 15:46 DEI 21:03 Top Law Firm Representing Trump 23:47 ABA’s Stance on Supreme Court Ethics

Feb 5

Getting the band back together. ----- A jumbo sized episode this week as Thinking Like A Lawyer celebrates its 400th episode with a look back at some big changes in law firms, law schools, and the courts that have unfolded over its last 10 years of podcasting. Original co-host Elie Mystal from The Nation joins the gang to share his thoughts. He's not particularly optimistic.

Jan 29

Government lawyer purge creates chaos ----- Trump administration slashes jobs for young lawyers months before they officially start sparking a scramble for jobs. The Justice Department followed up that news by terminating career DOJ lawyers for the sin of having worked on Trump's criminal cases. One Biglaw firm informs its associates that they're not getting their full bonuses based on office attendance . While we're at it... should lawyers rely on law firm bonuses anyway? And a professor gets disciplined for political comments raising the debate: what exactly constitutes a violation of academic freedom?

Jan 22

You've got to know when to hold 'em. Know when to fold 'em. ------ Supreme Court litigator Tom Goldstein, co-founder of SCOTUSblog, is on the wrong side of the law facing a multi-count indictment related to the alleged fallout of a hard-core gambling lifestyle . All while routinely arguing multiple cases in front of the Supreme Court. Legen...wait for it...dary. Also Proskauer proves that every rose has its thorn and Yale stares down on of the most epic downgrades in law school history .

Jan 15

Attorneys yearn for the commute. ----- Sullivan & Cromwell are bringing attorneys back to the office five days a week . The stated reason is to mirror "normal business hours" which is a cruel joke in an abnormal business hour industry . Democratic Party superlawyer Marc Elias faces an uprising at his firm after staff proposed a mandatory arbitration agreement despite many of his top clients openly campaigning on... banning mandatory arbitration agreements. Finally, Wilson Sonsini hands out bonuses but pulls a fast one with special payments .

Jan 8

Statutes are hard. ----- Apparently, Clarence Thomas just didn't understand how to read the nearly 50-year-old statute requiring him to report massively expensive gifts. That's the Judicial Conference's official take in a new letter to the Senate panel looking into the ethical cesspool. The letter becomes public just as Chief Justice Roberts releases his annual report asserting that most criticism of the Court should be seen as improper intimidation and even violence . Before the holidays, we discussed Biglaw firms bucking the trend and not paying out special bonuses. Happy to report that they've reversed course .

Dec 26, 2024

A very jolly podcast. ----- It's a very special holiday episode of Thinking Like A Lawyer with three straight "Ho" stories. First, Hogan Lovells irks associates with a bonus announcement without matching the industry standard special bonuses . Meanwhile, law enforcement just can't help making Luigi Mangione look more like a sexy martyr and now someone claiming to be UnitedHealthcare is trying to assert ownership of his likeness . And Judge James Ho walks back his prior support for birthright citizenship now that it might cost him a job on the Supreme Court.

Dec 18, 2024

Bringing new meaning to the court's order. ----- Can lunch save professional civility? Almost assuredly not, but one judge is going to try . Partnership isn't what it used to be. Instead of long careers with equity ownership, partners are making lateral jumps with more frequency than ever . More out of the murder of a Kentucky judge earlier this year... " running a brothel out of that courtroom " sounds ominous. ----- (00:00)Small Talk (02:15)Mysterious Drone Sightings (07:20)Lawyer Lunch Date (12:03)Laterals Aren't Loving This Biglaw Firm (19:15)Slain Judge Accused Of 'Running A Brothel Out Of That Courtroom'

Dec 11, 2024

Elon's got some thoughts on the judicial system. ----- Elon Musk says his AI will be able to deliver judicial opinions as soon as he feeds it "all" the cases . It will not, but his impulse sheds some light on a disturbing lack of respect for the rule of law. A pair of judges planning to take senior status as soon as Biden confirmed their successors have withdrawn their plans after the Senate sat on their proposed openings. And law school applications are up big time... and that's not good news for a lot of students.

Dec 4, 2024

Get it? Combining two of the stories into one relevant title? ----- A pregnant law student sought modest accommodations when finals came over her due date. The school rejected the request saying, " Motherhood is not for the Faint of Heart ." It did not go over well with fellow students. Or alumni. Or faculty. Or pretty much anyone. Drake accused the music industry of conspiring to help Kendrick demolish him in rap battle . RICO claims? They really not like us. Finally, Jonathan Turley accused liberal rage for the disturbing swatting attack he suffered. When his theory of the case turned out to be... wildly and completely wrong, he took a swipe at Joe. And missed .

Nov 27, 2024

'Hey, please don't open this' is not a policy. ----- A law firm left its confidential internal documents with juicy information unprotected and was shocked, SHOCKED to find out attorneys read them . Pam Bondi is next at bat for the Attorney General job. While her decision to drop an official investigation into Trump University conveniently after he started supporting her will get a lot of attention, don't sleep on the TAIL of her fight over another family's dog . And, finally, we have an un-bear-ably wild tale of a "bear" attack on luxury cars . 00:00 Small Talk 03:10 Happy Thanksgiving 07:00 Biglaw Associates Caught Reading Private Emails 14:03 Goodbye Matt Gaetz, Hello Pam Bondi 17:26 Pam Bondi’s Dog Drama 23:04 The Bear That Attacked Luxury Cars

Nov 20, 2024

Also... Matt Gaetz as Attorney General is something we have to contemplate? ----- The Federalist Society conference included a tour de force in rhetorical fallacy from the Fifth Circuit's Judge Edith Jones, suggesting that it's an attack on the "rule of law" to talk about court reform and that such criticism results in death threats! Very cool. Very judicial. We also have a disturbing story out of Biglaw , and discuss the instant reaction to Matt Gaetz being nominated to serve as Attorney General and the dumbest takes that nomination has inspired . 00:00 Small Talk 5:53 The National Lawyers Convention & Judge Jones 24:29 Biglaw Partner Removed After Wife's Remains Found 30:00 Misc. Stories 34:14 Closing Remarks

Nov 13, 2024

The race is on. ----- It's the most wonderful time of the year! Milbank continues to relish its role as the Pied Piper of Biglaw bonuses, once again jumping the traditional late November bonus announcement kickoff to set the bar for 2024 annual bonuses . We also learned that a number of firms make non-equity pay a share of the partnership expenses despite holding no equity . And one partner out there is using work email to complain about the neighbors with offensive terminology .

Nov 6, 2024

That Governing Document Can't Stop Me Because I Can't Read! ----- Sammy Alito openly defies the Constitution with European knighthood . Chicago Law tapes classes but isn't interested in letting students actually use those recordings. Students are, unsurprisingly, pissed . Professor Richard Epstein brags about replacing scientists with judges. Yes, the same guy who said COVID would only kill 500 people and got the first Trump administration sold on the idea. And mark your calendars for the lawyer movie from Hallmark's holiday season.

Oct 30, 2024

Also, Tiffany may be number 1 in his heart (she's not), but she's also not number 1 in her class. ----- Of all the iconic lines from Dr. Strangelove, maybe the best is "You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!" Recently, Harvard began punishing students (and faculty) for silent library protests while studying almost as though maintaining a "non-disruptive atmosphere" isn't the school's real concern. Donald Trump brags about Tiffany Trump's class ranking... even though her law school doesn't rank students . And states are preparing for the Supreme Court to launch a large-scale rollback on rights.

Oct 23, 2024

The republican party of the 1990s must be turning over in its grave because the modern GOP is arguing teen pregnancy is a good thing. Equity partnership in Biglaw is a financial windfall, unless you're in the 10-30% of partners getting a compensation cut . And do you like messy, I mean MESSY, legal drama? Th e latest from the Texas bankruptcy court romantic scandal is eye popping.

Oct 16, 2024

From young attorneys to the Chief Justice, a lot of lawyers are dropping the ball. ----- We've got some young lawyers out there who don't understand the basics of professionalism and it runs a lot deeper than just lacking experience. That said, there are some experienced attorneys falling down on fulfilling a different set of professional obligations . Meanwhile, Chief Justice Roberts is apparently very, very sad that the public didn't appreciate his latest Constitutional rewrite.

Oct 9, 2024

Why not? ----- Kathryn Mizelle was rated unqualified by the ABA and it shows. The Trump appointee just took it upon herself to rewrite the law despite acknowledging that higher courts have explicitly declined to do so. But she's a very special snowflake apparently. Law school rankings are primed for a major shuffle if we're to believe the available data. And... why do we need a new Matlock?

Oct 2, 2024

The majority of the Supreme Court keeps diluting bribery laws and Eric Adams had best hope they aren't done yet. ----- Eric Adams got indicted last week and quickly pulled out the big litigation guns to explain that the Supreme Court already said bribery was cool . Meanwhile, Jonathan Turley rushed to the embattled mayor's defense to explain why ACTUALLY it was way worse that AOC once wore a borrowed dress to a party . Judge Pauline Newman's fight to end the pocket impeachment her colleagues on the Federal Circuit imposed upon her has added even more objective medical evidence that the other judges will continue to pretend they can't understand. And Shohei Ohtani's 50-50 home run ball reminds everyone that free stuff still has taxable value .

Sep 25, 2024

Why do professors think everyone has to personally experience the facts to understand the law? ----- Hardcore porn shows up in a law school lecture . You know, the rest of us managed to learn the relevant standards for obscenity laws within the context of the First Amendment without visual aides. Also, Diddy's lawyers forgot how track changes works with embarrassing results. And Judge Aileen Cannon doesn't know her Founding Fathers ... how a flubbed disclosure form speaks to Originalism's cynical lie.

Sep 18, 2024

Is bigger better? ----- Law firms are merging like crazy with announcement after announcement after announcement . What's driving this big push and is this just going to be the way of the future? Also a judge invites us to meet the new racist, same as the old racist and we discuss the next must have for anyone taking depositions .

Sep 11, 2024

This week's episode of Thinking Like A Lawyer is all about the wild decisions made by federal judges. First up is a Trump judge doing Trump judge things -- but don't tell him that. There's a Ninth Circuit judge that keeps using his dissents to make political stump speeches, much to the chagrin of his colleagues. And the Second Circuit comes out against libraries , because we live in the dumbest timeline.

Aug 28, 2024

It's not so easy to bring everyone back. ----- Latham announced a new 4-day office work week, bucking the 3-day consensus, but attorneys are wondering where they plan to put everybody . Meanwhile Milbank is so eager to get to work that they're inviting first-years to start early . Another firm joins the non-equity partner ranks , and the DOJ files an antitrust case with some of the hottest docs ever .

Aug 21, 2024

Just because you can make an argument, doesn't mean you should. ----- Disney's lawyers made headlines last week, but not the good kind like you want. After lawyers argued that a free trial to Disney+ required a wrongful death suit to move to forced arbitration, we wondered how everyone from outside to inside counsel dropped the ball here. Immediately after recording, Disney backtracked . Also, is Skadden falling behind? And we talk legal technology!

Aug 14, 2024

Milbank is leading the associate compensation charge -- again -- with summer bonuses. The associate there must be thrilled... Unlike DLA Piper's associates. That firm changed course on office attendance and it's going over like a lead balloon. Elon Musk also changed course, because when he told advertisers to go F themselves he really meant, "if you don't do what I want you to do I'll sue you."

Aug 7, 2024

Talking Supreme Court term limits (they're good!), bar exams (they're bad!), and a law professor's conception of free speech (it's ugly!). ----- The bar exam is officially past, now we wait to learn passed. This year's examination included dehydrating applicants and examinees missing out on their family's Olympic success . While bar exam changes are coming -- and law students can get paid to help -- at the end of the day it's a giant boondoggle pushed by people who've never even taken the test . With Supreme Court term limits on the table, let's talk a bit about how those work . And Jonathan Turley offers a disturbing look into his bizarro view of free speech .

Jul 31, 2024

Should we pay associates more and partners less? That's what this client thinks . Nikki Haley is threatening legal action against her supporters . Top notch politicking! Panel thinks that, maybe, a NY judge who threatened to shoot teenagers shouldn't stay on the job .

Jul 24, 2024

J.D. Vance brought Yale Law back into the spotlight. ----- As soon as J.D. Vance found himself on the GOP ticket, everyone who remembered him from his Yale Law days shared their thoughts and brought out their receipts . “JD’s rise is a triumph for angry jerks everywhere,” isn't a ringing endorsement. The campaign also tried to pull a fast one with some tricky phrasing about his time on the Yale Law Journal . Kirkland & Ellis adopts a carrot and stick approach -- rewarding associates for recruiting and punishing partners for leaving . And we talk about the Baldwin case .

Jul 17, 2024

They're not sending their best. ----- The Department of Justice has appointed special counsel to investigate politically charged cases for over a century. But Judge Aileen Cannon decided she has found a nugget of wisdom that every judge since the late 1800s overlooked and jettisoned Trump's classified documents case claiming that Jack Smith's was unconstitutionally appointed. Another of Trump's appointees stepped down after the circuit compiled nearly 1000 pages of misconduct allegations against him. And Northwestern's overwhelmingly white faculty isn't white enough for some and they've filed a lawsuit. Cannon kindred Northwestern.

Jul 10, 2024

Where are those summer bonuses? Don't give up hope yet. ----- Law firms are rolling in dough as partners are charging more and billing more . But comparing Biglaw to the NBA ? Come on, New York Times. Despite all the money, it's not trickling down to associates in the form of mass summer bonuses yet , though there may still be some green on the horizon. And why are certain people so angry about testing reform?

Jul 3, 2024

Textualism and Originalism evaporate in face of partisan objectives. ----- The Supreme Court closed out its season sidestepping text, precedent, and history -- the trifecta! -- to invent a new form of immunity to bail out Donald Trump. Weird, because so many of them were asked about this precise issue under oath and offered very different analysis . We also got January 6 legalized -- over the fiery dissent of Amy Coney Barrett -- the foundation of the administrative state thrown into chaos -- and a blessing for anyone who wants to make it illegal to be homeless .

Jun 26, 2024

Also, the Supreme Court's really sticking it to the Fifth Circuit. ----- We've got a few firms dipping into the summer bonus pool . But so far the pack hasn't followed them into the water. The Supreme Court continues to shoot down the Fifth Circuit, recognizing that politicians can't use false arrests to squelch free speech and using the Circuit to exorcise -- just a little -- their Second Amendment hangover . Is there anything normal about the YSL trial? The answer is no.

Jun 20, 2024

We talk about finding the right law school for you, and wonder how deep the SCOTUS drama goes. ----- The Above the Law Top 50 Law Schools ranking is here and this year it's putting power in the hands of the users . Meanwhile at the Supreme Court, ACB tells her colleagues that not every legal problem is a job for bad history. Sam and Martha-Ann Alito release Unplugged album , and it only took a matter of days into the Clarence Thomas Transparency Era for him to get caught covering up more gifts .

Jun 12, 2024

Except ATM machines have limits. ----- When ProPublica first reported that Clarence Thomas had taken half a million in gifts, it turns out they had only scratched the surface. New financial disclosures and some number-crunching from Fix the Court show that Thomas has taken over $5 million in gifts and likely gifts . Meanwhile, Ketanji Brown Jackson got roughly Beyonce tickets with a roughly $4000 face value . Meanwhile, there's a summer associate taking a horse and carriage to work and Columbia Law Review is finally back online after its board nuked the website over an article about Palestinian rights .

Jun 5, 2024

The Trump conviction excuse tour is not going well for his attorneys. ----- Donald Trump is now a convicted felon and everyone wants to know why his attorneys phoned in the defense. They... don't have good answers . At all . Continuing the Trump beat, Judge Aileen Cannon continued to display a delicate mix of cynical obstinance and outright incompetence, slow-playing a motion to keep Trump from publicly lying about the FBI and then asking for briefing on how the Supreme Court's CFPB case impacts the prosecution -- which it only could have if the Supreme Court came out the other way . And students no longer care about the USNWR rankings ... but maybe there's a better measure of prestige .

May 29, 2024

An appeal to common sense is denied. ----- You might have thought flying a flag upside after January 6 would be the only "Sam Alito w/10 flag" story of the week, but you'd be wrong. The justice followed it up with another flag tied to the riots and got appropriately roasted over it all by Elena Kagan . Biglaw always paid well, but with partners crossing the $20 million compensation barrier , the structure of Biglaw inevitably shifts to accommodate the new normal. And a law school deals with the most avoidable cheating scandal ever .

May 22, 2024

Now, this is a story all about how Sam Alito's wife got flipped-turned upside down. ----- Sam Alito flew his flag upside down in the aftermath of the insurrection. He doesn't deny that, but he blames his wife for it . Dames, amirite? Aside from the obvious ethical issues implicated by having a Supreme Court justice visibly light in the "defending the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic" department, why is Alito so objectively bad at responding to his scandals? Next thing you know, he'll be blaming her for the Dobbs leak too. Meanwhile the California bar exam is running into bankruptcy and rather than address the problem, the State Bar is just gonna kick the can further down the road. And Elon Musk's lawyers again earn their reputation as the gang that can't shoot straight, managing to Streisand Effect a dispute with a Delaware law expert by threatening to fire a Biglaw firm if the professor filed his brief.

May 15, 2024

Trump's attorneys seems as asleep at the switch as their client. ----- Having called Stormy Daniels a liar repeatedly in its opening, the Trump defense team was then shocked and appalled that the prosecution elicited testimony to rehabilitate her credibility. The hits didn't stop there as they attempted to get out of the mess they'd landed in by sex shaming someone whose sexuality is their whole business . Trump lawyers do a lot better when the judge is running their defense . Meanwhile, an organization moved to preemptively pare down Trump's SCOTUS shortlist to the least qualified, worst behaved candidates and its been a very Ponzi-rific week for one Biglaw firm .

May 8, 2024

Donald Trump, Drake, And James Ho... punchlines write themselves. ----- Donald Trump's trial shenanigans continue. Is he going to violate the gag order again ? It seems inevitable but... our prediction might shock you! But even if his unfiltered "Truthing" is behind him, there are so many other ways to show contempt of court . And a busy week in Morningside Heights as Columbia Law School students ask school to cancel exams in light of campus unrest, or at a minimum convert its optional pass/fail model to mandatory pass/fail to avoid placing a stigma on worried students. Then conservative judges announced a boycott of Columbia until their demands for "viewpoint diversity" are met. Also, small talk becomes big diss track talk as we devote a whole segment to Drake and Kendrick going to war and the legal implications.

May 1, 2024

The New York courtroom where Donald Trump is on trial is apparently unpleasant. Is that the former president's doing? The world may never know. Also, the fact that the racists are coming for Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson isn't surprising -- but who gave them the green light? And, a judge learns a valuable lesson about hot mics and why you should always assume someone is listening.

Apr 24, 2024

Let's see if it pays off as well as a billionaire covering up an affair. ----- Donald Trump's hush money trial kicks off after a week of Trump alienating everyone involved in the process by refusing to respect basic decorum and attempting to skirt the gag order by arguing that RTs aren't endorsements . The Am Law 100 is also out and we talk through some of the key takeaways and Judge Ho tried to defend his take on forum shopping and it's... not good .

Apr 17, 2024

We continue breaking down the U.S. News & World Report law school rankings and the chaos that its new methodology introduced. And we know exactly who to blame for breaking these rankings . Elon Musk recently went in for a deposition defended by Quinn Emanuel's Alex Spiro and earned a motion for sanctions . And a Berkeley Law protest goes viral , but all the "free speech" talk misses the mark.

Apr 10, 2024

Haphazard ranking serves as a reminder that service hasn't quite found the right formula after law schools started withdrawing their data. _______________ The full U.S. News & World Report law school rankings are out and they are... something . Duke is tied with Harvard? NYU nearly drops out of the top 10? Are we just hurling darts at a dartboard here? In a sense, yes . At least ever since law schools started withdrawing their cooperation . Meanwhile, a Biglaw firm tried to promote healthy sleep despite being the primary reason associates don't sleep and Trump's bond in the NY civil fraud case looks a little suspect .

Apr 3, 2024

Breaking down the action-packed final week of March. ___________ Special guest Liz Dye joins us to talk about the week that was. First, we delve into the abortion pill oral argument where even most of the conservatives scoffed at the right-wing effort to let an Amarillo courthouse second-guess the FDA on science. Almost as though the Chief Justice just tried to crack down on that practice . But along the way Neil Gorsuch showed off his (lack of) research skills and Alito and Thomas sought to revive the legal legacy of a chronic self-pleasurer . Then we check out the end of the showdown between Ron DeSantis and Disney that looks like a major victory for DeSantis until you, ya know, actually read the settlement agreement . Finally, Trump's got another gag order and went straight to work setting up the inevitable contempt hearing over it.

Mar 20, 2024

Conservative justices can't stop telling on themselves when it comes to forum shopping. __________________ Joe Biden says he got a standing ovation for trying to BS his way through a law school cold call. We call BS on that. Also Cooley Law School finds itself at the bottom of the heap when it comes to bar passage rates again. At some point, the ABA has to step in... right? Finally, the nation's judges did something about politicized forum shopping and right-wingers can't stop help but crying about how they miss their cheat code.

Mar 13, 2024

Parental leave and a bumbling Supreme Court highlight the week. _____________________________ Are law firms going to get stingy with parental leave? While most firms report solid revenue, sparking resentment over a few weeks of leave seems like a weird strategy, but DLA Piper recently cut back on the leave available to non-birthing parents . It's a first as far as Above the Law can tell, but will it be the last? Also, the Supreme Court screwed up its metadata , committing an error that would get junior associates fired. And finally, Joe Biden offered the Court some tough talk... by quoting them .

Mar 6, 2024

Bond... unaffordable cash bond. _________________________________ Donald Trump needed to put up some cash before E. Jean Carroll can begin executed the judgment she has against him. Instead, Trump tried to argue that he was simply too rich to put up a bond . The argument was not persuasive, but it did get Above the Law mentioned on Stephen Colbert . We also discuss the Supreme Court taking up the Trump immunity case even though there's not a chance they'll endorse his theory. And when should we just let bygones be bygones with a lawyer's bigoted past? A law professor says everyone is way too hard on Thomas's new clerk just because she got fired from a past right-wing organization after racist messages came to light.

Feb 28, 2024

Another firm begins cracking down on office attendance through punishment. Law firms want lawyers back in the office, but if they don't want associates spending that office time fielding calls from recruiters, it's time to consider incentives that treat lawyers like professionals. A Bush judge questioned Trump's manhood and Amy Wax fights back against the slap on the wrist Penn prepared to give her.

Feb 21, 2024

The Alabama Supreme Court ruled that frozen embryos are living children for the purposes of Alabama law. And while there are a lot of serious implications for the future of family fertility efforts, let's take a second to consider how much this absolutely breaks the state's rule against perpetuities . An attorney in the YSL case faces gang charges herself. She's made some... marketing decisions . Hogan Lovells must ponder whether invoking the wrath of ancient Roman poltergeists are worth a prime office location. Has anyone considered just working from home?

Feb 14, 2024

Even-keeled professionalism may pay off over time, but being a mercurial lunatic always pays off now. ______________________________ Former Trump aide Stephen Miller used Super Bowl week to launch a stunt employment discrimination complaint against the NFL . The rule in question is the subject of a much better legal challenge that it doesn't do ENOUGH to address anti-Black discrimination, but nothing about Miller's legal moves have much connection to reality -- up to and including the fact that he IS NOT A LAWYER. The Supreme Court heard oral argument in the insurrection case and Chief John Roberts hasn't shown his complete ignorance of basic facts about American elections since Shelby County . Finally, Judge Aileen Cannon receives motion to reconsider, the boldest litigation move of all since it requires counsel so confident in their eventual success that they're willing to call the trial judge a moron.

Feb 7, 2024

We're reaching peak Alina saturation. ___________ Last week may have officially been "Legalweek" but it was bad lawyer week at Above the Law, where Alina Habba dominated traffic with her ongoing futility. Her rapid retreat from the very phony "it's actually bias that so many prominent lawyers all worked at Paul Weiss" motion after being informed of the very real sanctions that could result . Robbie Kaplan, one of the Paul Weiss alumni in question, also shared her story of Donald Trump pulling out the half-clever schoolyard insults . We also discuss a firm that announced it would lay off 1/3 of the first years ... but not say which ones! And we talk a little about Legalweek and how AI isn't quite ready for primetime... even as lawyers keep getting in trouble for trying .

Jan 31, 2024

Sometimes you can't actually fake being smart. _________________________________________________ Alina Habba may soon be replaced in the Trump legal team constellation, but we'll always have memories of her crackerjack legal analysis and the stupid swimsuit debate . There are four justices who don't seem to care about the Supremacy Clause . And Davis Polk faced -- and successfully beat -- a discrimination suit .

Jan 24, 2024

'The only rules are there are no rules' apparently doesn't fly in Judge Kaplan's courtroom. ____________________________________ We don't even talk about Alina Habba's weird swimsuit thing on the show because it broke after we wrapped recording (next week, I guess!), but we have more than enough material discussing Trump's lawyer bumble through basic courtroom procedure and lodge motions for bad court thingies in the proud tradition of the Simpsons' greatest character . We also discuss a racial discrimination lawsuit against Troutman Pepper and whether "the partner is always a jerk" is a defense . And it looks like the federal courts have opened an investigation into Clarence Thomas ... which will probably go nowhere.

Jan 17, 2024

Who needs a judge's approval to start ranting in court? Every other person ever, you say? ___________________________________________________ Donald Trump's legal team informed Justice Arthur Engoron that their client would deliver closing remarks in violation of basic New York rules, setting off a series of decreasingly coherent emails with the judge over Trump's willingness to abide by the constraints of a closing argument. He was not willing to... but he went ahead and did it anyway. Meanwhile, Slaughter & May joined the ranks of firms trying to crack down on lawyers ducking the office using all its surveillance powers and another firm that announced matching bonuses has instituted a retroactive hours requirement to bait and switch its attorneys .

Jan 10, 2024

Maybe GPT-5 will want a free RV? _______________________________________________ The Chief spent his entire annual report on the federal judiciary on the rise of artificial intelligence and how AI cannot possibly replace judges because the judge is so much harder and more nuanced than, say, calling balls and strikes. Not that anyone would be stupid enough to describe being a judge like that . Steven Calabresi has either lost his mind or is engaged in an epic troll with a series of pieces arguing that Clarence Thomas is the bestest and most incorruptible justice ever ! Finally, plagiarism is all over the news for mostly bad faith reasons, but it highlights again that the law isn't easily governed by rules of plagiarism and copying by design.

Jan 3, 2024

The highs and mostly lows from the year that was. __________________________________________ As we turn the page to 2024, we reminisce over the top stories at Above the Law over the past year. Layoffs, salary hikes, ethical quagmires at the Supreme Court, Donald Trump's criminal cases... the legal industry provided a lot of fodder for Above the Law this past year. Join Thinking Like A Lawyer as we discuss all the big stories of the year and ask the question: can it get any worse than this year? (Hint: it can).

Dec 20, 2023

Law firms may hem and haw about raises, but they're still doing more than all right for themselves . Rudy's defamation trial did not go well . Before the latest development in the case , we talked about Michael Cohen's fake case brief and the implications of legal technology on criminal justice.

Dec 13, 2023

No one wants to admit weakness, but K&L Gates trying to put a smiling face on layoffs left a lot of observers cold. Meanwhile, Stephen Miller is mongering about a conspiracy to make Taylor Swift famous that somehow doesn't revolve around her talent. And Joshua Wright has brought a lawsuit against ASS Law despite still failing to understand that his problems are all in the mirror.

Dec 6, 2023

Payable sometime in 2024... of course. ________________________ Milbank got the ball rolling several weeks ago with a round of raises. Cravath has now upped the ante for more senior associates and the Biglaw landscape has finally decided to pile on. Where is all this going and what does it all mean? We've got thoughts. Meanwhile Amy Wax went ahead and invited a white nationalist back to campus and one of her students is disappointed that people weren't nicer about it. Finally, a new lawsuit presents an ethics issue spotter involving Trump lawyer Alina Habba .

Nov 29, 2023

Elon Musk files a facially ludicrous lawsuit and Trump argues that sexual assault doesn't count on airplanes _____________ After promising a thermonuclear lawsuit against Media Matters, Elon Musk showed up to court with a string of claims that would fail under his own recitation of facts . Meanwhile, Donald Trump takes aim at the Federal Rules of Evidence in a bid to undermine the E. Jean Carroll case and Stephen Miller goes after Macy's in a cheap publicity stunt .

Nov 22, 2023

Donald Trump sought a mistrial in his New York trial based, in part, on our articles being "humorous, irreverent." The GOP frontrunner did not succeed . Ron DeSantis messed with the rights of professors and now has to pick up the tab for their Biglaw lawyers . Or, more accurately, Florida taxpayers will pick up the tab. But that's just the price Floridians have to pay to help their governor finish third in the primaries! We're still waiting to see if more firms join the Milbank pay scale, but in the meantime a host of anonymous naysayers are mouthing off to the press in a pathetic effort to dissuade the market from following suit.

Nov 15, 2023

It's been over a week and no firm has yet to announce that it will match Milbank's latest series of raises . Or, more accurately, cost of living adjustments . Meanwhile, Cravath took the plunge on income partnerships , becoming the latest firm to abandon the time-honored one-tier partnership model. And the turmoil over Nixon Peabody's effort to sneak Donald Trump onboard as a client sparks calls for leadership change .

Nov 8, 2023

For most major law firms, the prospect of representing Donald Trump and stamping the firm's name on his nutty pet arguments is a non-starter. Over at Nixon Peabody, the firm jumped right in, bringing on the former president as a client and filing a brief complete with the zany " Brandenburg means it can't be an insurrection" argument that Trump's been having all his lawyers make. Partners don't seem happy about this turn of events . But, since we recorded, we've learned that firm leadership doesn't really care that partners are concerned . We also discuss Sam Bankman-Fried's absurd courtroom sketch and the aesthetic brilliance of Jane Rosenberg's dark and brooding courtroom sketches. Finally, a number of Biglaw firms sent an open letter castigating law school deans for campus antisemitism .

Nov 1, 2023

Stroock strikes out. -------------- We thought the end might be near for Stroock & Stroock & Lavan when we recorded this episode. We were right . And with that, the Biglaw world moves to exclusively one or fewer ampersands. A senior lawyer tried to pull a prank on an airplane. It ended badly . And we discuss the last time newly elected Speaker of the House Mike Johnson tried to run something. It was a law school and it failed in epic fashion .

Oct 25, 2023

LSAT's decision is not totally... illogical. ----------- The LSAT is ditching logic games from upcoming tests and the Above the Law gang is conflicted over whether or not that's a good thing. There's a good argument that the section disproportionately disadvantaged folks with vision issues. On the other hand that was a deficiency that admissions could address on the back end, but without that score schools no longer have a pattern recognition evaluation -- and what's more "thinking like a lawyer" than pattern recognition? We also discuss NYU Law Review getting sued by Stephen Miller and a lawyer citing Hitler approvingly .

Oct 11, 2023

A Clio Cloud Conference roundup. ----- Joe checks in from the 2023 Clio Cloud Conference joined by Legaltech News editor-in-chief Stephanie Wilkins, dean of legal tech journalism Bob Ambrogi, and Legal Talk Network producer Laurence Colletti to talk about legal technology and the small law market. We talk artificial intelligence, hot legal trends, and access to justice.

Oct 4, 2023

Also Donald Trump's lawyers continue making mistakes. ----- Donald Trump's attorneys don't have a leg to stand ing on. Get it? They keep making bad standing arguments and the judge has now threatened sanctions . A former prosecutor arrested in road rage incident because... Florida man . Meanwhile, a judge has stopped hearing cases after he started "spraying bullets" in road rage . Though he says he really doesn't remember it -- you know, how gunfights just slip your mind. And we welcome the return of the time-honored but always stupid debate over the value of cold calling in law school .

Sep 27, 2023

This week we chat about the First Amendment, sexual harassment, and, yet again, Blackface in the legal community. ----- Most Americans don't understand the First Amendment... just like Amy Coney Barrett ! More sexual harassment allegations in Biglaw, which gives us an opportunity to consider the impact of senior attorneys coming forward to prompt change. And, yes, there is talk about Blackface at the end because it sadly keeps coming up.

Sep 20, 2023

Sam Alito might be citing witchhunters from the 1600s as authority on the meaning of the Constitution, but the Fifth Circuit is taking it a step further and fighting over how the Bible might interpret a statute governing class action lawsuits . The MyPillow guy lost his composure in a video deposition for all the world to see. Probably had a bad night's sleep on some lumpy pillows. And it was quite the worrying summer for law students. Summer associates don't trust that they're going to get full-time employment and exploding offers have proliferated throughout the industry . At least one firm with a low retention rate this year still found the time to take everyone to the club .

Sep 13, 2023

In our latest chat, we discuss Biglaw strip club outings, Jeff Clark taking time away from his indictment to be an idiot online, and associates unhappy with a law firm's office tracker. ----- Gunderson Dettmer got a lot of flack on Reddit from folks accusing the firm of hosting a summer event at a strip club . It wasn't a strip club, but it was a nightclub with scantily clad go-go dancers, which doesn't make it much better from the perspective of a harassment-free work environment. And after making it rain at the club, the firm ended up no-offering a bunch of summers anayway . Jeff Clark took shots at Neal Katyal on social media. He missed. And Goodwin unveiled an office presence tool to let folks know who is in and out of the office at all times . Folks don't seem happy about it, but is it just the price we pay for hybrid work?

Sep 6, 2023

Also, how to create a culture that welcomes Biglaw vacations. ------ Amy Coney Barrett recently spoke publicly about how she longs for the days when most Americans couldn't recognize Supreme Court justices , highlighting that justices don't have to be there long for a culture of unaccountability to set in. Speaking of which, the majority of Clarence Thomas's former clerks signed an open letter shrugging off his ethical problems. But the real question is... did any of them bother to read a draft before signing on? And a managing partner wrote the firm about the virtues of taking a real vacation and got some blowback from attorneys .

Aug 30, 2023

A little Broadway for this week's title. ----- Law firm productivity is down , but are we really worried about that? It's a traditional harbinger of layoffs, though something about this market feels a bit different. Meanwhile, a right-wing advocacy group has sued a pair of Biglaw firms for offering fellowship programs aimed at improving diversity -- offering a lesson in forum shopping along the way. Finally, former ASS Law professor Joshua Wright brought a defamation suit against former students for harming his professional reputation. He admits that, as a married professor, he was sleeping with multiple students simultaneously but seems to think that's NOT the part that ruins his reputation.

Aug 23, 2023

The Fifth Circuit judge made a bunch of headlines last week and we jump into all of them. Plus Texas's use of water saws and Ron De Santis isn't faring well in his battle with Disney. (Always bet on Mickey.)

Aug 16, 2023

And they're running out of a bunch of lawyers. A surprising level of jerk content this week as we discuss the value of real Jamaican jerk seasoning, Clarence Thomas getting his RV financed by a health care executive, Alan Dershowitz complaining about his neighbors , and Judge Aileen Cannon botching straightforward criminal law ( more than once ).

Aug 9, 2023

Elena Kagan and Samuel Alito have... very different takes on judicial ethics and what Congress's role is in all of it. Plus, Lindsey Graham has a change of heart about a federal judge because it's politically expeditious. And a deep dive into starting salaries for attorneys.

Aug 2, 2023

Alabama is just straight up defying the Supreme Court on election law... but when liberals propose the same thing all of a sudden it's a crisis for the rule of law. I see how that goes. Also a hard-working Biglaw staffer gets caught up in a political backlash to what seems like an honest misunderstanding. And law students have no freaking idea what they're in for.

Jul 26, 2023

For real though, don't mention your law school rank in your wedding vows. You may think it cute but literally no one else does. Clarence Thomas has been workin that lifetime tenure racket from the very beginning. And ,careful what you post on social media, unless, of course you just enjoy having to go through the same trial multiple times.

Jul 19, 2023

Also more mandatory office policies and a brief primer on the Federal Circuit controversy. The Supreme Court's ethical lapses reached such heights that a fellow federal judge had to step in to publicly ask what's wrong with these people . And it's not just the big ticket scandals anymore, with the Court's reputation so tarnished that folks freak out over non-scandals (or at the most minor ones) like Venmogate and Sonia's Book Club . Meanwhile, more Biglaw firms opt for a 4-day mandatory office policy, though there's still not a lot of momentum behind the move. And Judge Pauline Newman of the Federal Circuit continues to fight against her colleagues for her right to continue to hear cases.

Jul 12, 2023

Between threatening Facebook and suing Wachtell, the Chief Twit is pretty active. We also talk about the end of the Supreme Court Term and the struggles in bar prep. ------ Elon Musk is desperately seeking a win and if he can't get it in a cage match against Mark Zuckerberg, he'll try his hand in court. Spoiler: it's going to go just about as badly. He's sent a legal threat to Facebook that fails to articulate much in the way of a legal issue and now he's suing Wachtell for being the lawyers that forced him to buy the company in the first place. Meanwhile the Supreme Court Term ended in a blaze of gaslighting and a hail of disingenuous spin . And now law schools are facing legal threats if their student body looks diverse . Finally, bar prep is just a little bit more stressful for students prepping with Themis, which continues to suffer website problems in the critical weeks before the exam.

Jun 28, 2023

More Supreme Court scandal news as Justice Samuel Alito tried to run out ahead of a ProPublica report with his own Wall Street Journal pre-rebuttal. We're all for confronting your problems head on, but Alito only managed to make himself look worse. A judge in D.C. sides against a man with a marijuana prescription because his neighbor didn't like it . So much for property rights. And we discuss the new Above the Law Top Law Schools ranking for the year!

Jun 21, 2023

Because someday you might face massive espionage charges... or something. Donald Trump is struggling to find representation in his multi-count federal criminal case and it shows because he just can't stop saying incredibly damaging stuff about his case. Like how he will plead guilty for money . This is what happens after decades developing a reputation for stiffing attorneys. We also have more layoffs from Orrick and Reed Smith -- what can we glean from these moves? And a Massachusetts court expanded the standard for ineffective assistance of counsel to include instances where the lawyer is clearly bigoted.

Jun 14, 2023

When you think about it, is a deputized bear really weirder than keeping classified documents in a bathroom with two chandeliers? Donald Trump got indicted since we last convened. And then the case got assigned to the same judge who got professionally scorched for trying to bail Trump out in the first place. Apparently he thinks the government pays people to plead guilty ? It's all very weird. Davis Polk plays follow-the-leader with Skadden and announces a 4-day in-office work week -- is this the start of a trend or not? Barber Ranen is no longer Barber Ranen after racist, sexist, and antisemitic emails between the founders at their last firm came to light. There's a lot to be said about baked in structures of discrimination and casual bigotry, but also... how did labor and employment attorneys think it was a good idea to put this in writing? And we talk about a bear cop .

Jun 7, 2023

Maybe the woman who called the cops on a Black birdwatcher should try using ChatGPT to make up some fake caselaw for her appeal because the real ones aren't helping. After a year of sword rattling that higher education is "hostile to free speech" because students don't appropriately sit quiet and absorb what speakers on stage are laying down, the media grandstanding came to a halt -- and in the case of the NY Post went into reverse -- amid calls to defund CUNY Law School over a speaker. Apparently it's only a "free speech crisis" in one direction. Meanwhile, the Second Circuit seems highly skeptical of Central Park Karen's claim that her former employer defamed her for citing its zero tolerance for racism in firing her. And by "highly skeptical" we mean the panel appears to have granted oral argument simply to dunk on her lawyer. Speaking of lawyers getting dunked on, the hapless attorneys who filed a response filled with fake caselaw they got off of ChatGPT are in serious trouble. But don't mistake this for "the perils of technology" because this was a failure of good old-fashioned lawyering.

May 31, 2023

And the Supreme Court's ethical problems just won't go away. Biglaw has always played follow-the-leader. Usually it's about bonuses, but Skadden is taking a big gamble that the rest of the industry will follow it back to a Monday-Thursday office work week . If the rest of Biglaw doesn't follow suit, the giant sucking sound you hear will be Skadden talent lateraling to rival firms. Also the Supreme Court's ethical follies continued with John Roberts teasing a secret plan to cure its ethical woes , while Gibson Dunn took a turn as legal industry laughing stock with a shoddily researched letter on behalf of Harlan Crow . And the Court sided with a grandmother after the county stole $25,000 from her... but dig a little deeper and her case wasn't as sympathetic as it looked .

May 24, 2023

How can one guy mess up this much? Ron DeSantis is about to announce a run for president, but meanwhile he's botching remedial civil procedure and running face first in the Fourteenth Amendment . Also, the Kamala Harris camp seems interested in reigniting her tough-on-crime persona by trashing public defenders. It's dangerous rhetoric that erodes faith in the justice system . Finally, Justice Kagan lashes out at Justice Sotomayor over intellectual property rights.

May 17, 2023

Joe and Chris talk about law school, layoffs, and basic decency. After law schools threw a public tantrum over the U.S. News and World Report ranking, with several withholding key data required to create a credible list, the rankings are now out and... they have serious credibility problems. Missing data, important factors glossed over, and shady employment accounting from the schools result in a broken list. Congratulations boycotting schools! You've managed to make it all worse. Meanwhile, in Ohio a pregnant lawyer sought a continuance after being put on emergency bed rest and got denied by the state supreme court because screw your human frailties. Finally, Dechert joins the layoff trend with a 5 percent global cut . As always, we wonder if this has broader significance or not.

May 10, 2023

When you list all of the revelations of the past month, it's impressive. Since we last chatted about Clarence Thomas facing an intractable ethics scandal... more stuff happened! We learned that he also got private school tuition off a donor , that Ginni was getting paid by FedSoc Prime (Leonard Leo) under the table , and that the courts were asked to deal with all of this over a decade ago and declined . Meanwhile, Lewis Brisbois faced a massive defection with upwards of 150 attorneys bolting for a boutique and prompting a leadership change. Still, with over a thousand attorneys how much does it really matter to shed a few hundred? Finally, Florida passed a new piece of performative racism legislation targeting permits for undocumented workers including DACA participants... and this places Dreamer attorneys in jeopardy of losing their licenses .

May 3, 2023

Also Ron DeSantis is getting beaten up by Disney again. The Supreme Court punts on a thorny felony murder case , prompting a conversation over whether the use and abuse of the rule can ever truly be reformed. There's also a super biller out there who managed to bill an average of over 10 hours a day last year. Presumably the attorney is weeping in a corner somewhere. Finally, Disney took its fight with Ron DeSantis up a notch with a new lawsuit that hasn't made everyone happy . Become a host of the ABA Law Student Podcast: Apply Here !

Apr 26, 2023

Yes, there's still more to say about Clarence Thomas. On this week's episode of Thinking Like A Lawyer Kathryn and Chris go back to the Clarence Thomas ethics well as Ted Cruz decides to weigh in. The New York Bar Exam was kind of a debacle, or at least the process of revealing the results was a debacle. And the Supreme Court gave reproductive freedom advocates a small victory last week, which prompted Justice Samuel Alito to tear down his female colleagues.

Apr 19, 2023

Who reads all of the statute anyway? The ethical hits just keep coming for Clarence Thomas as a second story about the gifts he collected from Harlan Crow expanded to include buying and maintaining a house for Thomas's mom . Rent free of course. Thomas doesn't have a particularly good excuse for not disclosing this since the text of the disclosure requirements are pretty clear. I guess holding people to the text of the laws they break only matters for poor people facing life in prison whose lawyers sleep through trial. We also discuss a new spate of layoffs and why we still feel cautiously optimistic about the second half of the year and the decision by U.S. News to delay its law school rankings .

Apr 12, 2023

Clarence Thomas takes some me time. An ethical quagmire surrounds Clarence Thomas. No, not that one. Not that one either. This one is about the gifts he's taken over the years without disclosures. Donald Trump took all of a couple hours after his indictment to start riling up his mob against the judge and prosecutor . And a Paul Hastings associate issues some bad advice .

Apr 5, 2023

Also Morgan & Morgan has had it with insurance lobbyists and the legal profession is losing talent to OnlyFans. Ron DeSantis tried to punish Disney by dissolving the local government dominated by Disney flopped when the smart lawyers pointed out that it would put the state on the hook for a deluge of liability . His latest effort to then replace all the board members flopped because while he crowed about his legal maneuvering to cable news, Disney publicly noticed some land use meetings and entered deals that functionally transferred the board's power to the company through the life of the last surviving descendent of King Charles III , making Lilibet of Sussex, the youngest of the group, arguably Disney's most important princess. Meanwhile, Morgan & Morgan has informed staff that it's no longer granting additional curtesies beyond those legally required after the insurance lobby secured massive a giant tort reform package in Florida. And a judge and young lawyer have both left the legal industry for OnlyFans... in case any of you are looking to lateral.

Mar 29, 2023

Latest podcast also talks about ranking the best law schools the worst way possible. With March upon us, we created our our bracket-based challenge to rerank the top law schools based on... nothing. If the law schools don't want to provide data to ranking services, we'll show them what that looks like. It's pretty bad . Speaking of bad, a litigant got a bit of a lecture from a federal judge who cautioned for more civility in filings and let's just say he did not get it. Finally, we return to the hybrid work model with a study in contrasts. One firm announces that it's going to close up the office for the month of August while another puts bonuses in jeopardy if an associate prefers to work in the office on different days. One of these firms will have a happier roster before this is all said and done.

Mar 15, 2023

Also, Elon Musk really needs legal counsel. Judge Stuart Kyle Duncan is the latest speaker to cry foul that an audience of law students heckled him to death . He's received an apology from Stanford Law School already, but the videos released from the event and the witness accounts appear to show the judge playing the role of wrestling heel. Taking the honest if probing questions from the audience and obstinately refusing to answer to further frustrate the students. Elon Musk fired up his Twitter machine to lurch the company into a potentially massive liability before someone -- presumably a lawyer -- told him about wrongful termination . Maybe he shouldn't be too quick to ditch the requirement that he run every Tweet by a lawyer first. Finally, Merrick Garland is taking heat for the fact that it's 2023 and Donald Trump has yet to be charged for anything stemming from the Capitol riot. But Garland's right .

Mar 8, 2023

And a pop quiz: do you know what 'bofadeez' is? Judge Roger Benitez of the Southern District of California decided to use his marshal to take a 13-year-old girl out of the audience and handcuff her in the jury box . Apparently, he didn't realize arbitrary acts of psychological torture upon children was frowned upon in this establishment. Now the Ninth Circuit is looking into a formal complaint . Also, those Dr. Rick commercials scold people turning into their parents for trying to leave voicemails, but it might be worth checking to see what the voicemail greeting you set 10 years ago says. Because for one aspiring lawyer it wasn't great . Finally, the Fifth Circuit's Judge Ho thinks it's wrong to prosecute political rivals on made up charges and frighteningly he's in the minority on this question.

Mar 1, 2023

And Sidney Powell drew the judge she needed at the right time. It may tickle the search engine algorithms, but the phrase "quiet quitting" seems out of place among lawyers. A firm sued one of its former attorneys for "quiet quitting" on them and now she's hired Wigdor to countersue , which is about as loud as lawyers can get. Meanwhile, the Texas judge hearing the state bar's complaint against Sidney Powell was a tad too quiet with a sparse summary judgment order kicking the case citing confusion about exhibit numbering . Finally, Wikipedia tried to stand up for the Constitution... the federal government told it to sit down .

Feb 22, 2023

On this week's podcast, we discuss a North Dakota law firm sued its associates and won , seeking to clawback paychecks for failing to meet billing requirements during the pandemic. Wasn't there a program to protect employers from cutting salaries during the downturn, you might ask? There was! And the firm took gobs of it . Also, Clarence Thomas is likely getting a statue in his honor, because as they say in Unforgiven, "deserve's got nothing to do with it." Finally, the one simple trick to $100 million in billables that the Third Circuit doesn't want Jones Day to know about.

Feb 15, 2023

On the latest episode of Thinking Like A Lawyer, Kathryn and Chris ponder the need for a rule against Confederate flags in courtrooms in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA the year of our Lord 2023. Speaking of bold stances on things that should be obvious, the American Bar Association would really like a Supreme Court ethics rule , but we know that's not happening. Plus if you want your full bonus this year at Perkins Coie , you're going to have to bill more hours. Which is a crappy move, but still better than the layoffs slow-moving through Biglaw.

Feb 8, 2023

Also, let's talk about Biglaw and cancel culture. How much continuing power should a judge have over the lives of defendants who plead guilty? A judge recently forced a woman to withdraw and apologize for statements diverting blame for an incident that she'd admitted to in court. A January 6th defendant is in hot water for the same thing. Prosecutors use overcharging and the ordeal of trial to leverage defendants into pleading guilty but a guilty plea has to mean something, doesn't it? Also, we discuss whether Biglaw has a cancel culture problem ( it doesn't ) and Judge Ho's case research ( it's bad ).

Feb 1, 2023

Also, some salty law school talk. Every high schooler has a group text chain and then a chain where they complain about the people they don't like on the group chain. Brett Kavanaugh is unaware of the second chain. Because when you have to do public tours to convince people that you have friends, you don't have friends . Meanwhile, a law professor didn't take too kindly to a student request . And while cursing at students isn't acceptable, the frustration probably was justified. Finally, there are a lot of thorny ethical challenges in this world, but some conflicts are pretty clear. Like, $62 million clear .

Jan 25, 2023

And what's going on with the legal market right now? The Supreme Court's inquiry into the source of the leak of its draft opinion in Dobbs failed to find the culprit among the clerks and permanent staff. Attorneys familiar with internal investigations pointed out that the report appeared carefully drafted to mislead the public without technically lying about the failure to investigate the people with the most access and motive, leaving the Court's legitimacy more compromised than when the investigation started. Meanwhile, an attorney caught billing hundreds of hours for document review he didn't do earns a suspension , and Goodwin Procter makes heads spin as its layoffs are immediately followed with a major lateral move .

Jan 18, 2023

Also, Joe Biden's documents elicit special counsel attention. A (now former) senior attorney at an Ohio law firm texted an associate blasting her for interviewing for another job while on maternity leave . The controversy laid bare the persistent threat of pregnancy discrimination, but also the ways these attitudes fester when management fails to take swift, decisive action. The Department of Justice appointed a special counsel to look into Joe Biden's mishandled classified documents in a case of Republicans needing to be careful what they wish for. Also Marjorie Taylor Greene found herself on the wrong end of a scathing cease and desist from Dr. Dre's legal team and Elon Musk continues to struggle with the aftermath of obliterating Twitter's legal department .

Jan 11, 2023

It’s only the beginning. While Goodwin Procter announced a major round of attorney layoffs, Holland & Knight announced a blockbuster expansion by adding Waller Lansden. Two different paths both driven by industry uncertainty: should firms cut or grow their way out of declining demand? Also, Ginni Thomas kept doing Ginni Thomas things.

Jan 4, 2023

Always waiting until the last minute. The week between Christmas and the New Year is usually pretty dead for legal news, which makes it the perfect time for a firm to try to slip some shady stuff past the goalie. Shearman started telling associates that they would not be getting bonuses for a variety of previous unannounced reasons. Foley Hoag tried to retroactively apply next year's hours requirement to this year's bonuses (they did the right thing and retreated within 48 hours). And Nelson Mullins sprung a new "collections" policy that you really have to hear about to believe.

Dec 28, 2022

The gang breaks down the biggest trends across the legal industry this year. From the Supreme Court's leaking to major ethical lapses, 2022 came in with a bang (raises) and leaves with a whimper (stealth layoffs). Did we learn anything? Probably not. Are we going to talk about it anyway? Of course. What else are we going to do?

Dec 21, 2022

It's all about optics. When an associate left Jones Day before serving a full two years, the firm billed for pro-rated bar study expenses . Once again, just because an agreement allows a firm to do something, doesn't mean it should. It's just not a good look for a firm. Speaking of optics, we also talk about Justice Brett Kavanaugh partying with Matt Gaetz and Alex Acosta -- and more importantly, parties with business before the Court this Term -- all while Supreme Court legitimacy sinks like a stone. Speaking of legitimacy, the Fifth Circuit agrees that a judge committed an ethical breach in hearing a case, but decided to just sweep it under the rug . Also, by the time this posts, Twitter will have changed its policies five more times, but we discuss the legal ramifications, if any, of Twitter's short-lived ban on mentioning "competitors."

Dec 14, 2022

Also the country may have dodged a constitutional bullet. If Ebeneezer Scrooge ran a law firm, he would probably bill associates for his own lack of work. It turns out, there's a law firm in North Dakota doing that right now. Also, the Supreme Court heard argument on the independent state legislature theory, a tortured reading of the Constitution designed to give Republicans a permanent federal electoral advantage, and it seemed to be a bridge too far for three conservative justices. All that and a chat about Congress making it a national secret how much money Ginni Thomas makes from outside interests.

Dec 7, 2022

But they caught me with some contemporaneous third-party emails? We discuss the crackerjack investigation the Supreme Court performed into allegations that Justice Sam Alito has a history of leaking decisions. After a religious leader confessed to lobbying efforts that included leaks from Alito concerning key decisions, Alito told the Court "it wasn't me" and, remarkably, they just accepted that and called it a day. Speaking of decisions, the Eleventh Circuit finally put a stop to Judge Aileen Cannon's string of zany decisions in the Trump seized documents case. Also, a former Biglaw partner thrust herself in the spotlight to bemoan her firm for enforcing the bare minimum of anti-harassment policies and a pair of law schools controversially announces a merger.

Nov 30, 2022

ABA poised to eliminate standardized testing requirement... but should it? Taking the LSAT is the first step in the law school journey. But it doesn't have to be. The ABA is considering dropping its requirement that accredited schools employ standardized testing as part of admissions. Some argue that the LSAT is a critical tool in promoting diversity in both law school and the profession. Others claim that the test's value as part of the process is overemphasized and that affording admissions more flexibility is a better tool. We also discuss the tale of a judge who questioned if a lawyer was faking a stroke. Spoiler alert: he was not. And we talk about rising Biglaw rates in an era of economic uncertainty.

Nov 23, 2022

Elite law schools are withdrawing from the U.S. News & World Report rankings one by one, but what does it all mean? We've never loved the USNWR methodology, but the reasons these schools cite for departing the rankings don't seem all that great. Maybe the schools would like to help a certain alternative ranking get better results! And the Biglaw bonus cycle has kicked off even amid an uncertain business environment.

Nov 16, 2022

Annual gathering aims to silence woke heretics... misses spectacularly. The Federalist Society national convention kicked off with Judge William Pryor mocking Above the Law for insinuating that the organization is a bunch of ideological hacks in a monologue that was "funny" to the extent it amounted to a quarter hour of self-owns. A day later, FedSoc proved its hackery when the Board voted to bar its founder and co-chair from identifying himself to the media as either a "founder" or "co-chair" -- a move that backfired when Steven Calabresi's immediate response was to tell the media that the Board had voted to bar him from calling himself the founder or co-chair. Please do not let these people write your contracts! We also discuss "Paul Clement's Lament" that law firms care more about money than his passion project of making America objectively worse and more dangerous. And more news of bubbling layoffs!

Nov 9, 2022

It's not 2009 all over again, but it's not great. Layoffs are continuing to percolate through the legal industry. Will they stay contained to a few firms with hard hit clients or are we seeing the beginning of widespread firings. Meanwhile, Jones Day has another brush with the Streisand Effect, leading the panel to have to explain who Barbra Streisand is to our youngest member.

Nov 2, 2022

Also, hybrid work models show strain. While Ye (née Kanye West) continues to bring new meaning to his song Black Skinhead with a flurry of antisemitic remarks, Biglaw firms are being Heartless and leaving his stable of representation a Ghost Town. But are they Stronger for making the move? Meanwhile, work from home policies remain in their infancy, but firms are already frustrating associates with tweaks. Cravath's originally announced policy has added a wrinkle and Ropes & Gray has folks positively grumpy. How long will the growing pains last? We also discuss Slaughter & May's new late night policy, the challenges facing Magic Circle firms.

Oct 26, 2022

Donald Trump is threatening a dumb lawsuit against the Pulitzer committee, but is it dumb like a fox? Because the right certainly has New York Times v. Sullivan in their crosshairs. There's still no information about the Supreme Court's investigation into the Dobbs leak. Color me utterly unsurprised. Steve Bannon is heading to jail, but that might not be the end of his legal woes. Maybe that federal pardon wasn't all that and a bag of chips.

Oct 19, 2022

Also lawyers don't make enough money... maybe. An anonymous Illinois bar applicant took to Reddit to confess to cheating on the exam. Perhaps "anonymous" should be placed in quotes because the author proceeded to provide a ton of identifying details triggering a bar examiner investigation. Also, new data suggests lawyers should raise rates, but is that really true? And merger mania is back in Biglaw with two top-tier mergers. All that and a brief aside about Liechtenstein admiralty law. Your Opinion Matters Help us make this show better by completing the 2022 Listener Survey .

Oct 13, 2022

Joe went to a conference... here's what went down. The crew couldn't convene this week because of the Clio Cloud Conference, but here's Joe's interview with Pamela Smith talking about lawyer public relations.

Oct 5, 2022

But it might make you a sociopath. Ginni Thomas testified to the January 6 committee that she still believes the election was stolen from Donald Trump. They wouldn't call it the "big" lie if it went down easy! But she also testified that she and Clarence don't talk about work, which might be even less believable than her stolen election claim. Also, an attorney billed 277 hours to review 20 documents... that seems like something the firm should've stopped earlier. And Judge James Ho is trying to help conservative Yale students by announcing he'll never hire them. And you thought Ginni wasn't making sense.

Sep 28, 2022

Receive The Appropriate Prizes. Did you know that it's not a good idea to keep two sets of accounting ledgers in order to scam banks and skimp on taxes? It's true! And the majority of the Trump family is finding that out as the NY Attorney General files a lawsuit. Have you considered putting your very freedom in the hands of a judge with decades of experience based on your own misunderstanding of one incident in their lives? Trump did that too, proposing Judge Dearie as special master, apparently on the logic that the judge got made at the Department of Justice once and assuming he'd hold a grudge. What about misleading the Supreme Court about the relief you want to be a political pawn? That's frowned upon as well... but no one seems like they're going to do anything about it.

Sep 21, 2022

And we speak of mermaids and copyrights. There are people out there planning to digitally replace Ariel in the new Little Mermaid movie with a computer generated white character. This is great news... if you're Disney's outside IP enforcement counsel! Meanwhile, the SCOTUS offseason heats up with Chief Justice Roberts complaining that the public questions the Court's legitimacy and Justice Kagan indirectly points out that it's his fault. Also, maybe ACB forgot whole parts of the First Amendment because she doesn't plan on those existing much longer. And we go down an antitrust rabbit hole at one point.

Sep 14, 2022

Also, judges need to get their act together. Did you ever think we'd hear a Supreme Court justice questioning the law school model? Well, it happened! Sandwiched between some nonsense about the Dobbs leak, Neil Gorsuch mused that the United States may not need to force students through 7 years of higher education to practice law. We may not have all the answers, but at least people are talking about it. Also we have a couple of horror stories about judges refusing to respect lawyers with families and the best way to build an office culture.

Sep 7, 2022

See, it was an elaborate art piece to demonstrate the futility of law. We breakdown the shenanigans involved in the latest Trump search warrant order... which is in a civil matter... with a different judge... invoking privileges Trump doesn't have... granting relief he didn't even ask for. What does any of that even mean? Good luck to the judge's clerks in their future endeavors after getting handcuffed to this! We also discuss debt relief and how it impacts law students. And we discuss Jones Day and ponder if lawyers are morally complicit in the work their firms perform.

Aug 31, 2022

Um... 28 U.S.C. Section... Why Not? The Donald Trump warrant fight provides a scattershot of weird challenges to unravel for the non-lawyers in our lives. We've got collateral attacks and special masters and still no clear sense of how there's any jurisdiction for any of it. But he's found a judge seemingly willing to play along. As a reminder, the job of finding judges like these belongs to Leonard Leo, the guru behind the Federalist Society who now has a billion in shadowy money to play with. Speaking of right-wing law students, Yale Law grad J.D. Vance really understands the opioid crisis in Ohio... because his charity appears to have contributed to it!

Aug 24, 2022

We didn't plan to get this deep into the feels, but here we are. Kathryn and Joe sat down to talk about a couple human interest stories in law. Joe discusses the story of AXDRAFT, a Ukraine-based legal tech provider (part of the Onit family) and its struggles and triumphs in the face of an ongoing catastrophe while Kathryn talks about an Afghan judge who fled the country with her law degree sewn into her clothes. All this and a brief chat about ILTACON.

Aug 17, 2022

The FBI's search of Trump's residence has brought on a whole lot of caterwauling on cable news and social media from lawyers and law professors in Trump's orbit. Yet no one seems able (or willing) to accurately describe the whole warrant process. Meanwhile, a federal judge is pulling the rug out from his replacement -- who would diversify the bench -- for the stupidest reason. And a new report suggests that neural implants will replace the billable hour by forcing lawyers to bill by brain activity. That seems... unlikely, but this week was full of surprises.

Aug 10, 2022

Alex Jones is not going to be paying anything near what the jury determined. While slapping Alex Jones with $45 million in punitive damages for defaming the families of Sandy Hook Elementary shooting victims. But the state of Texas makes juries deliberate and then substitutes its own cap for their decision. Thanks for your jury service, but we've decided to go in a different direction! Now get out! We also talk about the tax controversy surrounding Ivana Trump's final resting place, the Supreme Court's legitimacy woes, and Brittney Griner's Russian sentence.

Aug 3, 2022

This podcast must vest, if at all, within 21 years... The bar exam decided to ask a couple of rule against perpetuities questions, obliterating its last claim to legitimacy -- that it teaches real-life practical law. Another reminder that licensing is broken and we need to take bold steps to reform it. Clarence Thomas opted to give up his cushy seminar at George Washington Law and some people are whining about that. And Nicholas Sandmann's "epic" defamation lawsuit against the entire mainstream media ended with a thud... just like we said it would.

Jul 27, 2022

Mistakes were made. A lawyer tried to get away with a little misogynistic insulting in open court. It did not end well for him. Meanwhile, a Biglaw partner laments low hours and associates skipping out on the office. This should be a warning to associates as the economy cools because whether or not this is fair, this is the sort of thinking that guides layoff decisions. And the bar exam is here and so are all the indignities. Like asking applicants to spend over $100 on lunch.

Jul 20, 2022

Due diligence is your friend, Elon. Twitter has sued Elon Musk for walking away from his plans to purchase the company and it's hard to see how Musk gets out of this unscathed. Twitter's deal lawyers negotiated a pretty ironclad agreement, Musk's complaints fail basic logic, and Delaware law is roundly against him. But other than that, he's doing great! We also talk about the value of impeaching Supreme Court justices for lying during the confirmation process -- even if there's no hope of removal -- and we chat about the value of a good video deposition angle.

Jul 13, 2022

Plus Texas targets Biglaw. Since the Dobbs opinion came down, Supreme Court justices have faced protests outside their homes and outside their favorite restaurants. The Supreme Court asked local officials to clamp down on it and Morton's Steakhouse used its JD from the Filet Mignon School of Law, but the Court's problem is its own pesky precedents catching up with it. We also discuss the threat Texas legislators sent to Sidley Austin suggesting it would go after the firm for its health plan covering health care travel and the future of state border-crossing laws and guns and briefly preview Elon Musk's Twitter fight.

Jul 6, 2022

January 6 hearings invite a more hearsay mistakes than the bar exam. Hearsay isn't the easiest concept in the world in application, but compared to the "fertile octogenarian" it's at least straightforward. The complexity is in all the exceptions, not hearsay itself. And yet the January 6 hearings invited a lot of hearsay talk that wildly missed the mark. The gang also takes a look back at the now concluded Supreme Court Term -- and the nightmarish preview the justices dropped on the last day -- and chats about the latest in the Britney Spears litigation.

Jun 29, 2022

Constitutional law is more of a vibe now. Well there's not much to talk about in the legal world besides the Supreme Court so... let's do that. The Court ruled that state legislatures are both free to craft the laws that suit their state and that state legislatures are dangerously lawless entities that must be crushed by judicial fiat... WITHIN A DAY! The half century of Roe isn't a historical tradition, but a 111 year old gun permit statute is not as historically rooted as a 14 year old Supreme Court opinion. It's a wild time to try to untangle the rule of law. Also, Biglaw firms are scrambling to react to the Dobbs opinion, and former Solicitor General Paul Clement throws a pity party in the papers.

Jun 22, 2022

Starting to notice a pattern? The January 6 Committee is very interested in speaking with Ginni Thomas following revelations that she had a correspondence with John Eastman about election shenanigans. But more interesting is the revelation that Eastman was telling his buddies that he had inside information about closed door Supreme Court meetings casting an even brighter spotlight on Thomas. It's still anyone's guess who leaked the Dobbs opinion, but it's worth noting that Occam's Razor is undefeated. We also discuss the latest religious schools opinion from the Supreme Court and UCLA's Absent-Minded... or just plain absent... professor.

Jun 15, 2022

Also, people don't want to go back to the office. At all. The latest edition of the ATL Top 50 Law Schools ranking is out and provides some interesting insights into legal education. As the ATL system privileges "outputs" by focusing on job placement and costs rather than incoming student GPAs and LSAT scores, the ranking gives prospective students a look at the best bang for their tuition buck and gives law schools a great way to game the system: be cheaper and get your grads jobs that will let them pay off debt. We talk about the rankings and some curious schools dropping down the list. We also discuss associate resistance to the "3-day in-person work week" model. It seems as though lawyers don't want to return to the office at all and that might not be in their best interest.

Jun 8, 2022

The bar exam is a daunting obstacle, but it doesn't have to be. Joe and Elie chat with Rich Douglas, COO of Themis, about the bar exam and how to conquer it. Rich also tells us about the Themis Law School Essentials program of free review materials for law school courses and we discuss the impact the GRE is going to have on law school admissions.

Jun 1, 2022

"PODigal"... get it? Whatever. The original Thinking Like A Lawyer hosting team is back for a limited engagement! With the team depleted by holiday vacations, Joe is joined by Elie Mystal of The Nation to talk about the Supreme Court, touching on everything from Shinn -- deciding that "actual innocence isn't enough" when it comes to getting people off death row -- to the coming Bruen opinion that will stifle even the mildest of gun regulations across the country. We may even have a little to say about leaking draft Supreme Court opinions.

May 25, 2022

Yale. Again. Everything keeps coming back to New Haven. Conservatives are doxxing law students for saying they might not party with FedSoc anymore. Professors are whitewashing Alito opinions. Alums are attacking the press. Why can't this school chill out a little? Also a Biglaw firm needs some lessons in collegiality and Elon Musk is trying to make his own law firm.

May 18, 2022

Does the new Texas social media law banning platforms from moderating content really require you to listen to this episode? Well, it's on Twitter so now you're compelled! Frustratingly, this reasoning is just as stupid as the Fifth Circuit's crayon-scratched opinion rubber stamping the statute. It's an opinion so bad that Justice Alito immediately swooped in to get the appeal rolling. Meanwhile, we also talk about the changing nature of in-house counsel and the growth of "legal operations" as the chief operating officers of legal departments, a judge with a penchant for handcuffing lawyers, and the latest law school dean hypocrisy. Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists, LLC .

May 11, 2022

A leaked draft opinion informed the world that the far-right wing of the Supreme Court has broken from Chief Justice Roberts and intends to overrule Roe v. Wade outright based on... "we've got five votes now, so suck it." The gang discusses the opinion, the demise of stare decisis, the obsession with the leaker, and a law professor's problematic response to it all. Joe didn't even use the sound board this week, so you know it's serious. Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists, LLC .

May 4, 2022

If you're tuning in today to hear our thoughts on the leaked Dobbs opinion and what that means for the future of both reproductive rights and the entire superstructure of the 14th Amendment going forward... well, you'll have to wait a week. Putting together a quality show takes time and that means we recorded this before that revelation. But that doesn't mean there wasn't a lot to cover! We have a breakdown of the latest Am Law 100 ranking of law firms, recaps of the "interesting" lawyering both in and before the Johnny Depp/Amber Heard trial, way too much talk about the legal woes facing Ron DeSantis as he goes after Disney, the racist standup career of Alex Jones's lawyer, and some pointers on how and how not to report on legal news. Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists, LLC .

Apr 27, 2022

That was an exhausting week for legal happenings! Marjorie Taylor Greene flummoxed a poor judge during a hearing into her ability to satisfy the 14th Amendment's proscription against seditionists in office. Justice Kagan had just about enough of Neil Gorsuch and let us all know. Alex Jones took his defamation woes to Bankruptcy Court -- after transferring millions among different legal entities, of course. The Biden administration set its sights on undermining Miranda rights, Johnny Depp has a better grasp on hearsay than most law students, and we got a major arrest in the Dan Markel murder case. And all that's before we even get to one of the least qualified federal judges in American history deciding that there's no statutory basis for the CDC to regulate proactive public health measures based on... some curious wordplay. Phew. Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists, LLC .

Apr 20, 2022

Penn Law's Amy Wax is back at it, appearing on Tucker Carlson to talk about the problem with Black people and Asians. We cover Wax's shenanigans and the impact they have on the law school's credibility a lot, but it does make us wonder where we draw the line between informing the public and just feeding a troll. We also talk about Kim Kardashian's ongoing quest to become a lawyer reaching a new high water mark and Pharma Bro Martin Shkreli losing his Biglaw attorneys. Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists, LLC .

Apr 14, 2022

There's not an explicit rule of professional responsibility for this, but the general commandment to serve the public ought to stretch far enough to keep the Court from running a propaganda arm. Amy Coney Barrett blasted a sound byte reassuring the public that the Court isn't a corrupt, partisan institution because it issues "opinions," knowing full well that she was about to obliterate half a century of environmental regulations on the strength of an unsigned paragraph that very week. We also have to revisit the Yale Law School culture fight, which seems less a fight than a unilateral assault on free speech in favor of "you have the right to shut up and listen." Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists, LLC .

Apr 6, 2022

US News and World Report released its annual law school rankings last week and delivered chaos upon the legal world, dropping Harvard from its top three perch. As we break down some key insights from the rankings, we remind everyone not to get too hung up on these numbers. Speaking of numbers that lawyers should get hung up on, it looks like a lawyer screw up cost a bank around $600M so that's not great. And speaking of being the opposite of great, unhinged text messages from Ginni Thomas raise questions about the fitness of Clarence Thomas to serve on the Supreme Court. Don't worry, no one will end up doing anything about it. Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists, LLC .

Mar 30, 2022

Free speech is rarely pretty. But there was no shortage of hand-wringing last week over Yale Law students who -- checks notes -- protested an event and then left promptly when asked by faculty. If that doesn't sound bad, but that's because you're not vested in the ongoing effort to redefine free speech as protecting the people with microphones and punishing dissent. We also talk about a wildly inappropriate in-house counsel and the story of a town that ticketed an elderly couple to the tune of $30K and the federal judge who was not pleased about it. Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists, LLC .

Mar 23, 2022

Before its fight with AT&T is over, One America News will owe Vedder Price a good deal in billables. But is it worth it for Vedder Price? The gang discusses the pros and cons of taking on civil work -- especially questionably winnable work -- for unpopular clients when other clients are begging for a squeaky clean counsel reputation. Meanwhile, law enforcement routinely pushes probable cause to the limit, but arresting 64 people for an ounce of weed proved too far. Finally, remember to vote in the annual Above the Law bracket! Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists, LLC .

Mar 16, 2022

Joe and Chris discuss the latest nonsensical efforts to derail Ketanji Brown Jackson's nomination and ask the audience to guess which baseless attack comes next. They also breakdown the happenings between ABA TECHSHOW and Legalweek 2022, which marked Chris's first foray into the wild world of legal technology. And Joe has a nasty non-COVID cold that he caught at these shows so don't let that throw you off. Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists, LLC .

Mar 9, 2022

Cravath proved they’re still the Biglaw compensation leader by coming over the top of Davis Polk’s raises. Now the question is — who will follow them? Which lawyers are still working for Russia? A British politician goes ahead and NAMES NAMES. The dog whistles are getting LOUD: it sure is interesting that the only Supreme Court nominee that is fielding questions about her LSAT score is a Black woman. Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists, LLC .

Mar 2, 2022

As it happens, all three of your hosts competed on high school or college debate teams. So did Ketanji Brown Jackson. This is why you should just turn over your whole governance to the people making jokes about "uniqueness." We also talk about law firms disentangling themselves from Russia and the retrograde nonsense of the Virginia Bar Exam. Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists, LLC .

Feb 23, 2022

After weeks of waiting, Davis Polk enters the salary increase game and re-raises, offering higher numbers for mid-level and senior associates. Is this the new normal, or could the market sustain one more shock to the system? Meanwhile, "Hobbit Law" aficionado Paul Davis gave Business Insider an interview that reads suspiciously like a rehabilitation attempt from a thoroughly embarrassed lawyer. Finally we discuss the latest Voting Rights Act case out of Arkansas and the trouble with judges getting too big for their robes. Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists, LLC .

Feb 16, 2022

The Supreme Court returned to the shadowy depths to issue a 5-4 ruling allowing a racial gerrymander to continue through the next election. The Chief Justice dissented, lamenting the idea that a shadow docket ruling could effectively rubberstamp a "freebie" violation of the Voting Rights Act. You know... we used to have a mechanism to prevent this sort of thing, JOHN. We also discuss the latest Georgetown Law racial slur incident, which mercifully didn't end in bad "academic freedom" takes. And we talk about Kirkland's return to office announcement, which landed with a thud when the firm didn't package it with some market matching raises. Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists, LLC .

Feb 9, 2022

Taking its lead from Neil Gorsuch's Supreme Court shenanigans, a Fifth Circuit panel told attorneys to go maskless. In Louisiana. The state that just edged past New York in COVID deaths per million. Though at least some of its judges care enough about freedom to respect the judgment of counsel. Joe Rogan is still, unfortunately, in the news and he's basically the poster child for how little people seem to understand about free speech. Meanwhile, the Milbank raises still have a lot of notable holdouts. When is the market going to catch up? Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists, LLC .

Feb 2, 2022

Stephen Breyer plans to step down at the end of the Term. But we didn't get much time to celebrate his legacy before the national conversation shifted to denigrating his hypothetical replacement. Georgetown Law found itself thrust into the center of the story when its newest hire branded Breyer's not-yet-chosen successor as a "lesser Black [woman]." Speaking of law schools dealing with racism, Penn Law professor Amy Wax says she's not retiring amid a disciplinary inquiry into what the dean describes as her increasing "promotion of white supremacy." Meanwhile, Goodwin instituted a new vacation policy that should help associates actually unplug for a little bit. Special thanks to our sponsor, Posh Virtual Receptionists, LLC

Jan 26, 2022

Just when you thought law firm salaries had settled into a nice equilibrium, Milbank announced another round of base salary hikes and the whole cycle began again. But with some notable hold-outs, the industry is left wondering if this is the last word on the matter or if another raise is on the horizon. We also talk about Elon Musk's effort to get a law firm to fire an attorney for being mean to him when he was back pushing the envelope of SEC regulations, and a state judge who refused to get vaccinated and an unvaccinated former VP candidate who sunk her high profile trial by catching COVID.

Jan 19, 2022

Elie Mystal rejoins the Thinking Like A Lawyer crew to reflect on how Neil Gorsuch chose stupid over wrong and the bizarre fixation his acolytes have on doubling down in his defense. Justice Gorsuch asked the government why COVID amounted to an emergency when the flu kills a comparable number of people. The thing is, it doesn't. But rather than be wrong, Gorsuch contends he said something else... that makes no sense and, if true, makes him look stupid. Quite the quandary!

Jan 12, 2022

Yale Law School's Jed Rubenfeld isn't letting his suspension following a sexual harassment investigation slow down his quest for the spotlight. And while media outlets don't need to invite the scrutiny by inviting a suspended professor to talk about run-of-the-mill legal takes, the Wall Street Journal is ready to roll out the red carpet for anyone willing to provide spicy "vaccines are socialism" takes! Pairing with an award-winning virologist also at the nadir of his professional standing, Rubenfeld explains how omicron means vaccine mandates are unconstitutional... or something. We also talk about the wrong way to handle a holiday party -- don't slap guests! -- and how the Ghislaine Maxwell verdict may fall apart over jury selection. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Jan 5, 2022

The Chief Justice released his year-end report on the federal judiciary and informed us that everything is fine and there's nothing to see there. While multiple issues threaten the legitimacy of the courts, Roberts assured the country that he's got some webinars that can solve everything from sexual harassment to market manipulation. Alan Dershowitz also closed off 2021 with not one, but two embarrassing TV appearances as he struggles to maintain relevance. Welcome to 2022! Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Dec 29, 2021

We've made it through another year. Well, almost. We probably shouldn't start counting our bats and pangolins before they've hatched. Joe and Kathryn look back at the wild ride of 2021 and make some predictions about what 2022 holds. Also... it's that time of year to send in your Lawyer of the Year nominations. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Dec 22, 2021

As the year winds down, folks seem a little extra agitated. A judge called her colleagues names and got booted from the bench. A partner bailed on his firm rather than get the scientifically proven vaccine. Meanwhile the legal press jumped on news of another round of salary raises as an extra dose of year-end drama that didn't actually happen. 2021 is bad enough, folks... don't try to make it any extra. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Dec 15, 2021

Last week, a handful of Biglaw firms contacted Above the Law trying to rewrite their whole firm image. International firms still headquartered overseas trying to rebrand as American and firms historically embraced as for growing up outside the NYC white-shoe culture wanted to be portrayed as Knickerbocker blue bloods. Who thinks this will work? Also, we discuss Latham's holiday party COVID debacle and have an extended discussion of the canons of statutory interpretation and the Formula 1 season finale that could end up in an international court. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Dec 8, 2021

After more than a week of wondering when firms would start playing follow the leader with Biglaw bonuses, Davis Polk finally set a standard that the rest of the industry felt comfortable following. In unrelated large firm news, Cravath announces a change to its partnership model... could this be the final nail in the lockstep compensation coffin? Joe, Kathryn, Chris also talk about a salty exchange between Ninth Circuit judges and holiday gifts for lawyers. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Dec 1, 2021

We thought we entered Biglaw bonus season last week, but after Cravath rolled out a higher bonus schedule, the majority of firms responded with silence. What's going on, and is someone finally going to break that logjam? We also talk about the verdict in the Arbery murder and continue last week's discussion about the troubling balancing act when it comes to prosecutorial discretion. And an Ivy League school settles with students over COVID tuition. Should schools really have charged less during the pandemic? Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Nov 24, 2021

Joe and Chris discuss the Rittenhouse verdict and the limits of self-defense standards. Specifically, at what point can stripping a case of all its context rob it of value. Meanwhile, Sheriffs are refusing to enforce laws -- usually vaccine and mask requirements. What are the limits of prosecutorial discretion and, how in the world is it okay for an activist group to offer scholarships to law enforcement for neglecting their duties? Finally, we check in on NYU's FedSoc chapter where board members resigned after learning that the group is doing... exactly what the Federalist Society is created to do. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Nov 17, 2021

Is there a significant crossover between this podcast's audience and Taylor Swift? I guess we'll find out this week as we discuss her latest re-release and the intellectual property issues driving her new recording strategy. Because everything comes back around to the law... even pop music. We also talk about Above the Law's role in the latest inquiry from the House Judiciary Committee and the tech issues on display in the Rittenhouse killings case. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Nov 10, 2021

Sidley is offering associates firm branded AirPods and jackets as a token of appreciation after bringing lawyers back to the office. Putting aside whether or not that's a fair deal for associates, what exactly makes for a good branded gift? Not all swag is created equal. We also chat about a town in California that has declared itself an independent Constitutional Republic (that's not a thing), the moral authority of Big Bird, and Lin Wood's emails. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Nov 3, 2021

The Supreme Court heard from the braintrust behind SB8 in Texas and unleashed some withering contempt for the novel effort to craft a statute that avoids over 100 years of precedent. Meanwhile, Trump's new social media endeavor runs afoul of copyright law and Biglaw is going big when it comes to paying for key talent... but will it translate to the rest of the associates? Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Oct 27, 2021

Yale just can't keep out of the legal news. Over the last several months we've had high-profile fights with professors, a student club behaving badly, and now this. This time it's the school's commitment to outside counsel Day Pitney, a firm making quite a name for itself pulling discovery shenanigans in the Sandy Hook mass shooting trial. Meanwhile, we have new rankings out featuring the best law school deals and the coolest Biglaw firms. Finally, conservatives have a plan to fix the Supreme Court and it's... renaming the building. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Oct 20, 2021

A lot of folks would plead the First Amendment last week, and it was all nonsense. Yale Law School's Federalist Society advertised an event by throwing a whole mess of racist stereotyping at the wall just to see what would stick and when other students asked how this fit within the private school's standards for student organizations... First Amendment! Conspiracy theorists are convinced that Merrick Garland is using the Justice Department to enrich himself by silencing parents just because they threatened school officials... First Amendment! And Virginia public school teachers want the right to refuse to use a student's personal pronouns... First Amendment! Nope. Nope to all of it. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Oct 13, 2021

This week's top stories were all about the judges. Should judges be held to a higher standard when it comes to vaccines? Should they at least endeavor to hire clerks that don't have resumes drenched in red flags? How much should clerkships matter anyway? And we got judges making some tough talking threats. All that and a couple of sound effects -- what more could you ask for? Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Oct 6, 2021

What's the next Supreme Court Term going to look like? Not great! We've got full-on assaults aimed at abortion, gun regulations, and affirmative action and that's just in the first handful of cases. Which you know if you've taken our Supreme Court quiz . Joe and Kathryn welcome ATL's newest editor Christopher Williams to break down these and other cases primed for this Term. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Sep 29, 2021

Did you know you could sue for $100 million for breaching an NDA that says breaches cannot be monetized? Neither did we. But Donald Trump has found a new lawyer willing to help him file that claim. He's arguing that his niece stole the documents that suggested a history of tax fraud, thereby unintentionally confirming the documents which is... a choice. Meanwhile, the Biden administration proposes a massive increase in bank monitoring for tax purposes even though the numbers seem a bit screwy. Finally, there's a law firm facing some very salacious allegations. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Sep 22, 2021

Joe and Kathryn break down the long-awaited John Durham indictment that tagged former Perkins Coie partner Michael Sussmann and find it... less than persuasive. Emory Law School has yet another racial slur in class incident, forcing the gang to ask if there's something in the water down there. But given that the most recent incident involves the brother of another repeat offender on this score, maybe it's just a family thing. And finally, Above the Law looks back at the day that launched an internet trend and renamed a law school forever. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Sep 15, 2021

We talk about misbehaving lawyers a lot, but there must be a full moon ( per statute a moon "at least 95 percent wholly spherical when measured by appropriate telescopic instruments" ) or something for lawyers right now because they're wild this week! We've got Biglaw attorneys injecting food with blood, lawyers waving loaded guns around over COVID protocols, a deeply scandalous and tragic situation out of South Carolina, and Justice Amy Coney Barrett running her mouth off with the lack of self-awareness you'd expect from someone who spread a deadly infection to the White House. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Sep 8, 2021

In light of the Supreme Court's abortion ruling, we talk about the nature of the mysterious shadow docket and how it's been transformed over the last few years. The dismantling of Roe is in full swing, reigniting Court expansion talk, which we think is a bad move. Joe and Kathryn also check in on the annual law school scholarly impact ratings to see which law school rules the Ivory Tower. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Sep 1, 2021

Big firms are experimenting with hybrid and flexible office models in the hopefully waning days of COVID. And there's a lot of momentum behind transitioning this into a permanent 3- or 4-day work week long term. Except there are some of you out there screwing this up for the rest of us and intentionally not getting the vaccine in an effort to stay home thereby confirming why some firms think everyone needs to be forced back to the office. We also discuss the sentencing -- if you can even call it that -- of the South Dakota AG who killed a man several months ago. And Joe talks about legal technology and Las Vegas for a bit. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Aug 25, 2021

On the latest episode of Thinking Like A Lawyer, Kathryn is joined by Above the Law assistant editor Chris Williams while Joe heads to the latest legal tech conference. Chris and Kathryn discuss the English lawyer who died from COVID, but not before he took to social media to decry the vaccine and downplay the risk of COVID. They also chat about the law professor (from ASS Law, because of course) that sued over a vaccine mandate. And, seriously, why is it so damn hard for law professors to avoid saying the N-word?? Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Aug 18, 2021

As demand for transactional lawyers continues to rise, one firm is reportedly offering big bonuses to attorneys willing to stick it out in key practice areas. Rudy Giuliani is now on Cameo in case you were looking for the gift no one wanted. And in-house counsel didn’t have as good a year as they’re used to. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Aug 11, 2021

Joe and Kathryn chat about the lawsuit against George Mason University brought by GMU Law School -- better known by their unfortunately chosen name "ASSLaw" -- law professor Todd Zywicki over his refusal to get vaccinated. It's a remarkably unimpressive complaint. Cravath, in the midst of many changes, announces a new flexible office work policy based around a floating 6 remote work days per month. Could this become the new normal? And Rudy Giuliani is still broadcasting to the world that he works at Greenberg Tarurig. Maybe he means Greenberg Traurig Total Landscaping? Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Aug 4, 2021

Joe and Kathryn discuss bar exam horror stories. The last -- hopefully -- pandemic bar exam continued to bring calamity and examiners seem largely unfazed that applicants are being put through glitches and computer crashes over it. Amy Chua remains in the headlines, but this time because rumors suggest that the school might punish students for meeting with her. And we talk about more Biglaw firm reopenings after one firm announced that they'll be cutting off building ID cards for the unvaccinated. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Jul 28, 2021

Irritating judges isn't recommended, but it really went off the rails for a couple of lawyers in the past few days. In Missouri, an attorney told off a judge and landed himself a week in jail. In NY, a lawyer kept picking at a federal judge long enough that the judge absolutely lost it on him. We also talk about the pervert calling libraries across the country asking them to read him a Supreme Court case while he masturbates. And we talk about firm office reopenings -- is it time for firms to pull the trigger and start mandating vaccines? Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota .

Jul 21, 2021

There are limits to the customer always being right. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota.

Jul 14, 2021

Why spend all that money on fancy legal research tools? Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota.

Jul 7, 2021

Get used to this out of the Supreme Court. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota.

Jun 30, 2021

This was a doozy of an ethical issue spotter. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota.

Jun 23, 2021

That wasn't even close. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota.

Jun 16, 2021

In case you were doubting how hot the legal market is. Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota.

Jun 9, 2021

They tried to keep a student from graduating... next year they'll be writing your laws! Special thanks to our sponsors, Lexicon and Nota.

Jun 2, 2021

The legal industry is changing in unexpected ways this year. Special thanks to our sponsors, LexisNexis® InterAction®, Lexicon and Nota.

May 26, 2021

Firms changing up vacation policies worrying associates. Special thanks to our sponsors, LexisNexis® InterAction®, Lexicon and Nota.

May 19, 2021

You'd think after a year of this, people would be better at it. Special thanks to our sponsors, LexisNexis® InterAction®, Lexicon and Nota.

May 12, 2021

At a certain point, you have to wonder why he's willing to keep charging up this hill. Special thanks to our sponsors, LexisNexis® InterAction®, Lexicon and Nota.

May 5, 2021

Obviously, we're not advocating for spoliation of evidence or obstruction of justice, but... shouldn't Rudy Giuliani of all people known not to keep evidence of crimes around? He used to run the DOJ office that's investigating his buddies! Meanwhile, the California bar exam gets caught breaking its own rules and the Pennsylvania bar president gets caught trying to protect himself from extortion. Special thanks to our sponsors, LexisNexis® InterAction®, Lexicon and Nota.

Apr 28, 2021

And if you do, can we interest you in this souvenir hat? Special thanks to our sponsors, LexisNexis® InterAction®, Lexicon and Nota.

Apr 21, 2021

It probably depends on who we're talking about. Special thanks to our sponsors, LexisNexis® InterAction®, Lexicon and Nota.

Apr 14, 2021

Yale Law School seems to have a recurring issue.

Apr 7, 2021

US News drops Georgetown from top tier.

Mar 31, 2021

Keeping up with the competition matters.

Mar 24, 2021

The party continues.

Mar 17, 2021

The former federal judge resigned in disgrace... but he's still a media darling.

Mar 10, 2021

Each half of the former firm has a new phone number.

Mar 3, 2021

Seriously, we told you people you can't do that.

Feb 24, 2021

200th Episode Spectacular!!!

Feb 17, 2021

We're not live but also not cats.

Feb 10, 2021

Everything wrapped into one.

Feb 3, 2021

Adventures in impeachment linguistics!

Jan 27, 2021

When will all of this election fallout finally end?

Jan 20, 2021

The second impeachment of Trump's tenure raises easily answered questions.

Jan 13, 2021

Too bad it was such a slow news week...

Jan 6, 2021

The firm says Cleta Mitchell went rogue, but that's only the start of their issues.

Dec 30, 2020

Things have to get better from here, right?

Dec 23, 2020

You can have a second act, but you don't get a consequence-free mulligan.

Dec 16, 2020

It's made-for-cable holiday movie season, so we tackle the burning question.

Dec 9, 2020

Also, what to get for the lawyer that has no time for anything.

Dec 2, 2020

Biglaw, law school, and firing squads all in one show.

Nov 25, 2020

As it turns out, there are a lot of better ideas out there.

Nov 18, 2020

Could this be the beginning of a mass exodus?

Nov 11, 2020

Sometimes, you just need to protect your IP better.

Nov 3, 2020

Someone screwed up bigly.

Oct 28, 2020

Time flies when you're surveying the apocalypse.

Oct 20, 2020

Joe chats with Clio CEO Jack Newton in the midst of his virtual conference.

Oct 13, 2020

Courts, law firms, and bar exams, oh my!

Oct 6, 2020

Obviously Trump's biggest mistake with ACB involved causing a White House superspreader event, but we didn't know that when we recorded this week's show. So we spend some time talking about his other mistake -- nominating ACB before the election and giving "never Trumpers" everything they want and leaving them with zero incentive to reelect him. We also discuss the wave of Fall bonuses among Biglaw firms and more importantly, the firms that aren't joining the party and what it means for the legal landscape

Sep 29, 2020

A conversation with Neal Katyal about the late justice.

Sep 22, 2020

What was a nice trickle has turned into a tsunami. Law firms are falling over themselves to hand out big time bonuses to associates to show the world how they've weathered COVID. And yet some firms are being forced to admit that they aren't able to keep up with the Biglaw Joneses. Speaking of Joneses, we also check in on a Jones Day associate likely bound for the federal bench despite all normal rules of the profession.

Sep 15, 2020

Professor Rick Hasen of UCI Law and the Election Law Blog joins us to talk all things election. Following up on his new book Election Meltdown we cover dangerous media expectations, vote-by-mail rules, how ballots are processed, the "Blue Shift" and the impact COVID is having on an already strained election system.

Sep 8, 2020

One of America's most venerable legal institutions has fallen into rank buffoonery and it's genuinely tragic to watch. From Bill Barr declaring racism over -- except on college campuses -- to a stumbling effort to get Michael Flynn out of his own sworn testimony, Joe is joined by ATL and Wonkette columnist Liz Dye to discuss what's gone wrong over there. And we check in on Kyle Rittenhouse's legal team who've made some... let's just say "interesting" strategic decisions.

Sep 1, 2020

If you watched the Republican National Convention, you heard a lot of coverage about the Hatch Act and the constant stream of violations occurring on live television. But does anyone really care about this? Maybe more to the point, is the law so over broad that it's blunted its own impact? We also check in on Yale Law School where a prominent professor is suspended for two years after an internal investigation into sexual harassment allegations.

Aug 25, 2020

Examinees across the pond give us a preview of the October exam process by urinating in bottles as proctors refuse to allow bathroom breaks. In case you were wondering if the bar exam fiasco could get any worse, there's your answer. Meanwhile Kirkland & Ellis faces a new discrimination suit, and we chat about the Supreme Court and the election a little bit.

Aug 18, 2020

As law schools return, one student gets a stern warning about a COVID kegger, law firms get a new ranking, and an unqualified judge issues the sort of baseless decision that landed him on the bench in the first place. A rundown of the week that was in legal news.

Aug 11, 2020

America's bar examination authorities have turned to threatening Character & Fitness repercussions for their critics marking a new, darker phase of the bar exam drama. How in the world did it come to this? Also, we talk about Kanye's double agent attorney and PACER gets a slap from the federal courts.

Aug 4, 2020

It may be too early to declare the legal profession back to normal, but we've now seen some major law firms reverse course on cost cutting and even announce some bonuses. Meanwhile, it took all of a couple hours for the in-person bar exam experiment to net its first positive COVID test.

Jul 28, 2020

Multiple states are going forward with the test this week. Good luck to everyone.

Jul 21, 2020

This week, Joe chats with Dr. Pilar Escontrias, Donna Saadati-Soto, Efrain Hudnell, and Emily Croucher, co-founders of United for Diploma Privilege. Follow them @DiplomaPriv4All.

Jul 14, 2020

The Supreme Court year is finally over.

Jul 7, 2020

It was an eventful week in legal news, but the biggest story was definitely the St. Louis personal injury attorneys who pulled guns on protesters and why lawyers have special obligations to maintain professionalism at all times. All that and more of the major stories of the week.

Jun 30, 2020

A new account compiles the acts of racism that compound at Harvard Law School, but they could emanate from almost any law school. We take a look at this account and the response of law schools around the country to recent events, including one law school that's taking an aggressive anti-racism stance. Also, we discuss Neomi Rao's Michael Flynn opinion which left a lot to be desired as a work of professional legal writing.

Jun 23, 2020

A decidedly conservative Supreme Court made discrimination against the LGBTQ community illegal and then turned around and wiped out the Trump Administration's effort to cancel DACA. What was in the water last week? Joe and Kathryn break down why the opinions weren't nearly as revolutionary as the results they brought might make them seem.

Jun 16, 2020

With an independent report by a federal judge branding the Department of Justice "corrupt" this seems like a good time to revisit exactly how we got here. Your elderly aunt on Facebook has a lot to say about Michael Flynn and most of it is wrong. Joe and Kathryn unpack the case and also discuss the case of a lawyer who egged a judge's car.

Jun 9, 2020

As law firms struggle to demonstrate to clients and their own attorneys that they take societal ills seriously, Kathryn's starting to notice some patterns in the statements getting released. Meanwhile, Joe is covering the state bar exams, where many are continuing to insist on shoving hundreds of people into small rooms in July and making applicants sign away their rights for the privilege of exposing themselves to disease.

Jun 2, 2020

Lawyers are pulling guns over facemasks? That... seems excessive. But here we are staring into the COVID abyss again. Austerity measures continue throughout the industry, lawyers are getting edgy, and a new assault on "the law that built the internet" issues from the White House.

May 26, 2020

Joe speaks with David Ackert, host of The Market Leaders Podcast about the role of business development in the legal profession. Lawyers may not love the hustle, but it's the basis of a service industry and lawyers at every level have a role to play in building their future opportunities. And it's not just a challenge for attorneys -- firms need to build a culture that maximizes respect for attorney business development too.

May 19, 2020

Things are still closed down, which means we've not had an opportunity to haunt the halls of an event center with the usual legal community suspects for a while, so let's see what's going on out there. It's time to catch up with Keith Lee, founder of LawyerSmack, about the private community of lawyers he's built up over the years and the trends he's observed participating in these conversations with lawyers from all sectors coming together to connect.

May 12, 2020

Joe chats with Johnnie Nguyen, the National Chair of the ABA Law Student Division about the wide-ranging issues facing law students in the midst of the pandemic and how the ABA is addressing those concerns.

May 5, 2020

The legal industry can still get together to learn and socialize.

Apr 28, 2020

Trellis is turning the state court system into something lawyers can really use.

Apr 21, 2020

A lot has changed since the middle of March.

Apr 14, 2020

Long pay cycles aren't just a problem for outside counsel.

Apr 7, 2020

The power of flexibility.

Mar 31, 2020

Joe and Kathryn check in from the Above the Law bunker to discuss law schools and the virus. While many schools quickly adopted pass/fail grading options others have held out, hoping to maintain some sense of normalcy. Are there really employers who will look back at Spring 2020 grades and think they're informative?

Mar 24, 2020

Since we last spoke, this guest has leveled up.

Mar 19, 2020

Joe chats with Adam Balinski, founder of Crushendo, a test prep program focused on maximizing human memory. Auditory courses with a strong emphasis on tried and true memory hacks like location association and mnemonic devices, all worked into short, repeatable episodes you can listen to while going about your day.

Mar 10, 2020

Joe welcomes back Jason Cruz from our earlier "Step Inside The Octagon" episode to discuss his new book "Mixed Martial Arts and the Law". From antitrust to labor law to performance enhancing drugs, there's a lot more law going into this sport than you might expect for a cage match where people kick each other in the face.

Feb 25, 2020

Dealing with thousands of documents presents a lot of challenges.

Feb 18, 2020

Discussing Iowa and the challenges to American democracy.

Feb 4, 2020

After taking the spotlight in the impeachment trial... should we have all seen this coming?

Jan 28, 2020

Checking in on Elie after a solid week of watching wall to wall impeachment coverage and the wear of the marathon coverage is starting to show. There's not much "legal" about this trial, but we're going to parse through what we can. We also talk a little about Tulsi Gabbard's high stakes defamation suit against Hillary Clinton for calling the Hawaii representative a Russian asset. As a lawsuit it may not come together, but does Gabbard have a moral point?

Jan 21, 2020

Joe and Elie chat with Edelson PC about the tech-oriented plaintiff and class action firm's work from protecting biometric privacy rights to addressing sexual misconduct in youth sports with partner Chris Dore and associates Aaron Lawson and Sydney Janzen.

Jan 14, 2020

More and more firms are adopting a non-equity partner tier, delaying equity consideration while extracting maximum value from high billing but relatively lowly paid senior attorneys tied to the job by the dangling hope of a future promotion that may never arrive.

Jan 8, 2020

With the 2010s wrapping up, Joe and Kathryn focus on all the law firms we've lost over the last decade. Industry pressures, bad strategies, and fraud allegations managed to put several former mainstays to rest over the last 10 years. What lessons can we take from the demise of these once-proud firms? Where is this whole profession heading? Will this next recession finish off what 2009 started?

Dec 30, 2019

To close out the year, Joe runs down the top 10 stories of the year at Above the Law. Are there key insights or interesting trends to be gained from reviewing the site’s traffic figures? Probably not, but here we are.

Dec 23, 2019

The president of the United States was impeached for only the third time in history. Let the obscure legal theorizing begin! Joe and Elie break down the curious argument that the House doesn’t even need to hand over the articles.

Dec 17, 2019

It's bonus season in Biglaw, and the major firms are slowly but surely rolling out their bonus announcements and telling associates what they'll be getting in their stockings this year. But Elie sees a bit of a Scrooge in the early first move and slow matching cycle. What's going on with the legal market and are we really looking at a recession in the making?

Dec 10, 2019

The "practice-ready" law school model is oft-discussed and rarely implemented, but maybe technology will finally force law schools to focus on teaching practical skills. Joe and Kathryn chat with Jessica Robinson, Vice President of Client Services at Casepoint about the maturation of the eDiscovery process, the project management lessons that fuel effective discovery, and the importance of learning the theory of discovery before entering an increasingly automating practice.

Dec 3, 2019

Mark Godsey discusses his conversion to an advocate for the wrongfully convicted and his grasp of the psychology that consistently lands the wrong people in prison.

Nov 26, 2019

With Kavanaugh's arrival, the last Term provided a glimpse of the fully armed and operational Roberts Court.

Nov 19, 2019

Joe and Elie chat with Rich Douglas, COO of Themis, about the bar exam and how to conquer it. Rich also tells us about the Themis Law School Essentials program of free review materials for law school courses and we discuss the impact the GRE is going to have on law school admissions.

Nov 12, 2019

With Veteran's Day this week, we decided to focus on a group that faces professional hurdles that most lawyers don't. Attorneys married into the military find themselves moving around the country or overseas every couple of years, which presents a problem in a practice still largely geographically fixed.

Nov 5, 2019

There's a bird loose in the Harvard Law School library, prompting Joe and Elie to have an impromptu debate over whether or not libraries are still essential in a world of digital research. Speaking of the internet, Deadspin's entire staff resigned last week and the duo discuss the legal and policy implications of the blogosphere's loss. Labor law, private equity business models, the bankruptcy code... it's all involved in the otherwise straightforward demise of a venerable publication.

Oct 29, 2019

This week's discussion of law firm growth trajectories never gets to happen as Elie's irritation with Trump's lawyers spills into the entire show. Becoming a bag man for the Ukraine deal raises ethical concerns, but is merely representing Trump an ethical problem? More to the point, is it something bar disciplinary committees should really be looking into?

Oct 22, 2019

With offers for summer employment going out to law students around the country, Thinking Like A Lawyer unveils its annual "The Offer" series. If you're wondering which of your offers you should take, Joe and Elie are happy to anonymously discuss them. Just send them to tips@abovethelaw.com subject line "The Offer." In the meantime, here are some general thoughts on the job hunt process.

Oct 15, 2019

Joe and Elie discuss the in-house world. Lawyers and law students often daydream about what they perceive as the cushy world of going in-house. But these lawyers face their own challenges. A recent comprehensive survey of corporate legal departments reveals confusion over privacy requirements and complaints over outside counsel costs.

Oct 8, 2019

Joe and Kathryn have a spontaneous chat about lawyers on television. From game shows to reality competitions, lawyers were all over the place last week. In a sense though, aren't these shows metaphors for the legal profession? No, they're probably not -- but that's not going to stop us from trying to explain how they might be.

Oct 1, 2019

Brazil has officially made a cat an attorney and this week Kathryn and Joe explore the feline's new career serving as both legal mascot and a symbolic advocate for animal legal concerns in the country. Meanwhile, Elie tries to speculate about impeachment and mostly fails because who cares about hearings that haven't even started yet when there's A LAWYER CAT TO TALK ABOUT!

Sep 25, 2019

Joe and Elie are joined by Alaric Dearment of MedCity News to discuss the legal framework surrounding the opioid lawsuits. How does something like this become a stunning breakdown of regulation in the face of industry greed? This is your overview.

Sep 17, 2019

Joe and Kathryn discuss the top stories of the week at Above the Law including the rise and fall of Judge Posner's pro se organization, Weil Gotshal's cafeteria cold shoulder, and the California Bar's good news. Plus we talk a bit about Emory's struggles with racial slurs. Just another week in the annals of the legal industry.

Sep 10, 2019

Kathryn Rubino joins Joe for a discussion of the latest Mansfield Rule efforts and the problem of lagging Biglaw diversity generally. From reputational rankings to deequitization to bar exam shenanigans the obstacles to building a truly diverse workforce in law are more baked into the system than current reforms seem able to handle.

Sep 3, 2019

With election season prematurely upon us, lawyers across the country will gear up to run for office, and their opponents will gear up to bash them for the clientele they've served. Should lawyers ever be criticized for zealously defending clients? Is the justice system undermined if attorneys feel some clients are too toxic to represent?

Aug 27, 2019

Disclaimer: This episode was originally aired on Dec 11, 2018.The International Legal Technology Association's annual conference came and went this past week, so we were unable to record a podcast. But we have a treat from the archives -- a conversation with Intapp board member and all-around law firm business expert Ralph Baxter about what the future holds for law firms.

Aug 20, 2019

As we prepare to enter another football season, Elie and Joe discuss some high-profile sports law stories making the rounds and focus on the most important intellectual property question that you would have thought was too dumb to ask: can you trademark the word, "the"?

Aug 13, 2019

Joe and Elie address some hypothetical situations about the legal industry and discuss which path they'd rather take knowing what they know. Imagine Thinking Like A Lawyer's "The Decision" series helping students choose a law school, but applied to a bunch of random legal questions.

Aug 6, 2019

Joe and Kathryn do another rapidfire rundown of the biggest stories in legal news this week. Bar exam horror stories! Jones Day's salary and discrimination suit woes! The imminent collapse of a national Biglaw firm! All that and more. Plus sound effects!!!

Jul 30, 2019

Joe and Elie watched some of these hearings everyone's talking about and break down some of the key legal issues that got lost in the spectacle. This is just what happens when a careful, conscientious attorney tries to talk to a bunch of local dry cleaner magnates who've managed to fall backward into Congress and then it all gets ciphered by talking heads churning a 24-hour news cycle.

Jul 23, 2019

Joe and Elie react to the news that UPenn Law School's Amy Wax has stepped up her efforts to be noticed by right-wing media by appearing at a "nationalism" conference and explicitly stating, that America would be "better off with more whites and fewer nonwhites." Who is this Amy Wax person, and why does she still have a job at this point? The answer is a toxic blend of tenure and cowardice.

Jul 16, 2019

Joe and Elie discuss Alex Acosta's resignation, Alan Dershowitz's underwear and more while covering the lawyers whose careers could end up demolished by their proximity to the Jeffrey Epstein. At every step lawyers enabled Epstein and as the SDNY brings new charges against him, a lot of lawyers are starting to face the music.

Jul 9, 2019

Joe and Elie talk about the court system in the nation and the lower courts that no one usually talks about.

Jul 2, 2019

Joe and Elie are off for the Independence Day holiday but wanted to leave you with something to listen to while you enjoy your holiday. Last year, we spoke with Vanderbilt Law School’s Associate Director of Career Services Nick Alexiou to discuss the on-campus interviewing process. A good guide for those of you preparing for the interview of your lives.

Jun 25, 2019

Admissions consultant Hanna Stotland stops by to talk about Kyle Kashuv's now-revoked Harvard admission -- why it was the right move for Harvard and where Kashuv can go from here. Stotland's practice focuses on students facing admissions hurdles -- generally of their own making. We discuss Kashuv's case, Title IX, and why it might be easier to get back on track as a former drug addict.

Jun 18, 2019

Joe and Kathryn come back with another edition of legal topics: Alan Dershowitz, Brett Kavanaugh's Supreme Court clerk hiring, and many more.

Jun 11, 2019

Joe and Elie chat with Ryan Steadman of Zero about legal technology and how to drive adoption among a profession that's notoriously averse to tech.

May 28, 2019

With all the Biglaw news to cover, we sometimes forget about the high-stakes plaintiffs' side firms out there. So this week, we're checking in with Jay Edelson of Edelson, a "plaintiffs' class action powerhouse," as Law360 puts it, involved in matters as disparate as electronic privacy, college football safety, and the California wildfires. Edelson also talks about one of the all-time law firm pranks he pulled off...

May 21, 2019

Elie remains missing in action (crying about Game of Thrones) so Joe and Kathryn are left to do another ESPN inspired legal podcast -- do not encourage these two to do 45 minutes of NFL takes as if teams are SCOTUS justices. So this is "Around the Gavel." Some new takes and a different sound effect or two because we've heard the air horn is problematic on a freeway, Sorry.

May 7, 2019

Elie is out of town, so Joe and guest host Kathryn Rubino take a page out of ESPN's playbook and offer a PTI-inspired roundup of the week's legal news items in short, two-minute bursts. There's even an air horn.

Apr 30, 2019

Joe and Elie continue to offer their answers on questions they've received from prospective law students asking “where should I go to school?” Balancing regional offers? Trying to decide what market to practice in? Choosing between the murky world of "just below T14"? Tune in and hear our advice on how to properly manage the law school adventure.

Apr 23, 2019

We finally set aside some time to discuss the questions we've received from prospective law students asking "where should I go to school?" Choosing between T14 heavies? We can handle that. Weighing different scholarship packages? We've got that too. Tune in and hear our advice on how to properly manage the law school adventure.

Apr 16, 2019

Kathryn Rubino joins Joe to discuss the recent lowlights in Biglaw gender equity. From MoFo's curious strategic response to allegations that it maintains a "mommy track" for female career advancement to Jones Day... doing Jones Day stuff, women are still struggling to get an even shake when it comes to major law firms.

Mar 26, 2019

After George Conway's most recent salvo against Donald Trump, Joe and Elie discuss the curious relationship of the senior Wachtell lawyer and Trump's senior aide. Is it possible that lawyers make for more harmonious relationships? The gang also discusses the Mueller Report one day before its release. See how the predictions match up with reality!

Mar 19, 2019

Let’s just talk about this college admissions scandal shall we? While everyone else is talking about Aunt Becky, Willkie Farr’s co-Managing Partner (and former Thinking Like A Lawyer guest) Gordon Caplan is also caught up in this whole scandal.

Mar 15, 2019

Jerry Buting and former Jefferson Parish prosecutor Jackie Maloney square off for a heated debate about the prosecution versus defense and how the portrayals on FOX TV’s ‘Proven Innocent’ compare to reality.

Mar 12, 2019

The US News and World Report law school rankings have been leaked, and the gang breaks down who's on top and who's making big moves -- both good and bad -- in this year's rankings. Joe and Elie also have an extended discussion about racist cars, specifically what to make of a new report suggesting that self-driving cars are more likely to strike African-American pedestrians.

Feb 22, 2019

As a special bonus, Joe and Elie are doing a series of podcasts about FOX’s new legal drama “Proven Innocent”. In this second installment, we speak with show creator and Stanford Law graduate David Elliot, California Innocence Project lawyer Michael Semanchik, and exoneree Jason Strong, who spent 15 years in prison for a crime he didn’t commit. “Proven Innocent” airs Fridays at 9/8c on FOX.

Feb 19, 2019

Joe and Elie chat with Ian Bassin, the Executive Director of Protect Democracy about the unfortunately pressing task of defending democratic institutions from creeping authoritarianism. Protect Democracy is on the front lines challenging both federal and state governments as they chip away at participatory democracy and constitutional limits. As a special bonus -- in the middle of the episode breaking news results in the guest beginning the process of filing suit on the spot. So that's cool.

Feb 15, 2019

As a special bonus, Joe and Elie will be doing a series of podcasts about “FOX’s new legal drama “Proven Innocent” premiering tonight at 9/8 Central. In this episode we speak with executive producer Danny Strong about the show and what drew him to the subject of wrongful convictions.

Feb 12, 2019

It's hard to say any attorney owned 2018 like Michael Avenatti who stormed (see what I did there?) onto the scene challenging Michael Cohen and Donald Trump over their treatment of his client. In a wide-ranging interview, Avenatti tells Joe and Elie (with a cameo appearance by ATL editor Staci Zaretsky) about his career, his assessment of the 2020 presidential race he thought about joining and of course his marquee 2018 matter and the strategy that went into it.

Feb 5, 2019

Joe and Elie come to you from the Legaltech NY conference musing about the future of law, the future of law conferences, and the future of weather where Elie is constantly unhappy.

Jan 29, 2019

Elie is deeply concerned about the media's willingness to cave to every request of a public relations firm, mostly because some people never get to hire one. And the gang talks about other legal stuff o' the week.

Jan 22, 2019

After Elie complains about toxic masculinity and razors, he and Joe discuss whether or not Rudy Giuliani's bizarre turn from respected former prosecutor to a talking head lunatic that seems to make his client's case worse at every turn. Did something happen to Rudy along the way... or was he maybe not that great at his job to begin with? Also, stealth layoffs may be appearing in the Biglaw world again. Is it time to start panicking?

Jan 15, 2019

Just when you thought the legal profession couldn't get weirder, we've got an extended treatment on the acceptability of emojis in workplace communication and the slow death of the Department of Justice under the weight of the shutdown. Moral of the story? If you have a civil claim against the government, now is the time to bring it.

Jan 8, 2019

Joe and Kathryn take a deep dive into some Above the Law stories from the last couple of weeks. Kathryn focuses on what ticks her off about a superficially light-hearted story about a Supreme Court advocate appearing for oral argument while his baby was busy being born and Joe talks about what reasonable accommodations for disabilities and the unconscious rhetorical choices he's made.

Dec 18, 2018

Joe and Elie discuss the major headlines in law firm news. Paul Weiss found itself in hot water after putting out a picture promoting its new partnership class of predominantly white dudes. It's a lesson in the damage visuals can wreck... and how to address incidents like this. Jones Day inserted itself... again... into the war on workers by entering the Slate labor dispute. And does your firm give the staff Christmas Eve off? Shouldn't everyone be doing this?

Dec 11, 2018

Elie and Joe talk to Ralph Baxter, former head of Orrick and current board member of Intapp, about the future of the legal industry. Baxter has long been an evangelist for legal industry change, willing to rethink Biglaw's long-standing practices to deliver better and more cost-effective services to clients.

Dec 5, 2018

Many folks become lawyers so they don't have to deal with math anymore. It's one of those weaknesses that holds back the profession as a business. Yet, cutting-edge tech is bringing number crunching to the fingertips of lawyers everywhere in the form of easy to use data analytics. Joe and Elie talk to Josh Becker of LexisNexis about the release of Context, a new tool that delivers deep insights into judicial idiosyncracies by analyzing the language of their body of work.

Nov 27, 2018

As everyone departed for the holiday, Joe was left solo to make a few announcements about upcoming opportunities to see the Above the Law team, including an invite to our upcoming holiday party for all the loyal readers and listeners.

Nov 21, 2018

Joe and Elie share their tips on how law students should prepare for final exams. They suggest getting into the mindset of mentioning concepts in the right place, organizing your notes before test week and even choosing the perfect song to get you hyped for studying. They top it off with their dislikes for final papers!

Nov 13, 2018

Joe and Elie check in on the legal academy and boy was it a mess this week. One law school is closing. A T14 school claims it's in financial distress. And another school made all its students attend a racist propaganda rally. Just another day in the law school world.

Nov 6, 2018

With work flowing away from mid-sized firms with high overhead to either the established elite or small shops, the shape of the legal labor market was bound to change as well. That's where Lawclerk's solution comes in at the intersection of technology and human capital. Joe chats with Greg Garman and Talitha Gray about their platform and how they help efficiently match freelancers with small shops needing a dose of expertise.

Oct 30, 2018

Joe and Elie catch their breath by recapping the top legal stories of last week. At the annual meeting of the Association of Corporate Counsel, Elie describes an in-house community deeply concerned with navigating the #MeToo era, the gang discusses the abrupt decision of Baker McKenzie's managing partner to step down for "exhaustion," and the pair argue over a new set of law school rankings.

Oct 23, 2018

You've seen all the mainstream media reports of student walk-outs and protests, but what are law school campuses really like these days. Joe and Elie are joined by Melissa Murray, a professor at NYU Law and former interim dean of Berkeley, to discuss the reaction from an insider's perspective and to delve into the overall mood on law school campuses these days. Are law students really desperate for "safe spaces" or is it more nuanced?

Oct 16, 2018

Joe and Elie take a serious turn, talking to University of Cincinnati Law Professor Mark Godsey, director of the Ohio Innocence Project, and author of Blind Injustice about the scourge of wrongful convictions, prosecutorial misconduct, and the trouble with local elections. Professor Godsey, a former prosecutor himself, discusses his conversion to an advocate for the wrongfully convicted and his grasp of the psychology that consistently lands the wrong people in prison.

Oct 9, 2018

Joe attended this year's Clio Cloud Conference and sat down with Sarah Schaff of Headnote to discuss her legal career and how she's shifted to become an entrepreneur with a product that helps attorneys collect on their bills within hours instead of months.

Oct 2, 2018

Joe and Above the Law's Kathryn Rubino react in real-time to the Kavanaugh hearings, recapping the morning testimony of Christine Blasey Ford and watching the Kavanaugh opening statement in all its ripe-for-SNL-parody glory. Since this recording, the vote's been delayed pending an investigation but it's worth taking a step back and ruminating on what we saw.

Sep 25, 2018

The legal workplace would be almost unrecognizable to a lawyer of the past. The typewriters are gone, WordPerfect is gone, the fax machines are going, and a whole host of new platforms providing services that those older lawyers could never have imagined. Joe and Elie chat with Casepoint CEO Haresh Bhungalia and Casepoint Chief Strategy Officer David Carns about the legal technology landscape generally and Casepoint specifically and how each are changing the legal workflow.

Sep 18, 2018

Before the Kavanaugh nomination took its decidedly darker turn, the nominee spoke tentatively but positively of opening up the courts to cameras and same-day audio. The House has also put forward a bill to expand this transparency. Joe and Elie talk to Andrew Eisbrouch and Jesse Weber of the Guys Who Law podcast and the Law & Crime network. Law & Crime is dedicated to broadcasting live courtroom telecasts to inform the public about the judicial system, so we wanted to know their thoughts on transparency.

Sep 12, 2018

Joe and Elie review the week that was in the Kavanaugh confirmation fight. Procedural fights! Threatened explusion! Giving false testimony to the Senate! Mysterious Kasowitz connections! After a wild week, will Brett Kavanaugh still have the votes to narrowly get confirmed to the Supreme Court? We'll just have to wait and find out. But the answer is yes.

Sep 4, 2018

Joe and Elie talk to Jason Cruz, a Seattle attorney and writer for MMA Payout covering the law and business side of MMA fighting. We discuss just how someone gets from a law degree to this world and walk through the lawsuit against Conor McGregor for throwing cans into the crowd. Elie also shares his theory for the unwritten social contract all sports fans should agree to and it's safe to say Elie wants us all to live in a dystopian nightmare.

Aug 28, 2018

Joe and Elie hit the road, coming to DC to ask some bar trivia questions to benefit the DC Bar Pro Bono Project. The winning score was 19/30... can you do better?

Aug 21, 2018

The Washington Post's Style section isn't normally where you'd go for your lawyerly insights, but last week they graced us with not one, but two legal stories. Joe Patrice and guest host Kathryn Rubino dive into Tiffany Trump's alleged law school woes and the hilariously grumpy life of Wachtell's George Conway as he navigates his days married to Kellyanne. There's also some Brett Kavanaugh talk, because why not?

Aug 14, 2018

As on-campus interviewing season begins, Joe and Elie welcome Vanderbilt Law School's Associate Director of Career Services Nick Alexiou to discuss the on-campus interviewing process. Learn to master the arcane art of speed dating with law firms and answering the difficult question, "why do you want to work here?". And the event details are here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/trivia-challenge-at-iltacon-tickets-46580583780

Aug 8, 2018

THE Ohio State University, as they prefer to be called, has commissioned a Biglaw firm to look into its head coach's handling of domestic abuse allegations against his staff. But what is an internal investigation? What exactly is it going to mean when Mary Jo White gets mentioned on ESPN? Joe and Elie give a quick, high-level rundown on the internal investigation process and Ohio State's situation. Sorry, I mean "The Ohio State's situation."

Jul 31, 2018

Elie can't make it to today's podcast, so Joe goes on an extended rant about movies with legal mistakes in them that drive him crazy. If you've ever watched Jaws and thought the movie should have really followed a string of lawsuits to put Amity out of business, this is the episode for you.

Jul 24, 2018

After years of giving them a pass, the ABA is cracking down on flagging for-profit law schools that consistently produce few graduates with legal jobs while raking in huge bucks. But how did these schools manage to make it this far? Social anthropologist Dr. Riaz Tejani spent three years working at a for-profit law school and has compiled his research in LawMart: Justice, Access, And For-Profit Law Schools. He joins Joe and Elie this week to talk about his work.

Jul 17, 2018

Barring some unforeseen parliamentary math, Judge Brett Kavanaugh of the DC Circuit will be the next associate justice of the Supreme Court. But as we come to the end of a whirlwind couple of weeks leading up to this announcement... did anything in we talked about matter? We all thought Kavanaugh was going to be the pick and after a ton of wild coverage Kavanaugh was still the pick. Joe and Elie discuss how the media got duped into following a horse race that never existed.

Jul 10, 2018

Police accused a Vinson & Elkins partner of fleeing the scene after swimming away from a boat crash — ostensibly to get help — that left a number of V&E partners injured and then disappearing for five hours. Is this a good use of prosecutorial resources?

Jul 3, 2018

Joe and Elie chat with Above the Law Founder David Lat about Justice Anthony Kennedy’s announced retirement. What is Kennedy’s legacy? Where will the Court go from here? And handicapping Kennedy’s potential successors.

Jun 28, 2018

Elie and Joe sit down to discuss one of the truly stupid law school final exams in history. Did it cover material that could reasonably come up in future practice? No. Did it require reasoning through currently controlling precedent? No. Was it wildly offensive? Oh, you better believe it was.

Jun 21, 2018

Joe and Elie discuss Above the Law's annual ranking of the top law schools in America with ATL Research Director Brian Dalton. There were some major shifts at the top of this year's ranking, and Elie isn't happy about any of them.

Jun 12, 2018

Joe and Elie talk to Ellen Trachman, an attorney specializing in all things baby, about artificial insemination, custody conundrums, and how twins can be citizens of different countries.

Jun 8, 2018

Milbank surprised everyone this week by boosting associate salaries over their 2016 levels. While we wait to see if others will follow suit, Joe and Elie break down what's happened and what this might mean for the industry at large.

May 23, 2018

Elie and Joe talk to author and analyst Lisa Green about Trump family nuptials, and some common pitfalls in the asset protection game.

May 8, 2018

Last time, Elie and Joe tackled a number of audience emails asking for counsel on where they should attend law school. That episode triggered a deluge of follow-up emails from listeners with their own questions, so the guys put their "Decision" hats back on and talked through even more law school scenarios. Can you get to Biglaw from a second-tier school? Have you spread your applications too thin? Are you deciding between Harvard and Stanford? We address all these questions and more.

Apr 27, 2018

Join Elie and Joe as they give tips to prospective law students about where they're thinking about going to law school and offer their advice on it. Offers from Penn and Berkeley? They got thoughts about it.

Apr 10, 2018

Elie and Joe chat with Joshua Lenon, Clio Lawyer-in-Residence, about global cybersecurity threats and what lawyers can do about them -- for both themselves and their clients. We also discuss potty training philosophies, so if you're looking for guidance on that, Elie has you covered.

Feb 23, 2018

Next week, Above the Law will unveil its comprehensive law firm brand rankings based on an extensive survey of in-house counsel. Joe and Elie sat down with Above the Law Research Director Brian Dalton to talk a little about the ranking and what clients are looking for in a law firm.

Feb 2, 2018

Elie and Joe talk to Slate's Jordan Weissman about Trump's plans to change the nature of student debt, how Elie finally paid off his educational debt, and concussions in the NFL. Don't worry, it all fits together.

Jan 19, 2018

Bitcoin and its ilk enjoyed a surge in value toward the end of 2017, but the pendulum is always poised to swing back dramatically in this largely unregulated market. Joe and Elie chat with Thornton McEnery of Dealbreaker about the cryptocurrency market, the role of big banks (read: our clients) in the crypto landscape and what's on the horizon in the U.S. and abroad to regulate the market.law lawyer legal podcast attorney practice

Dec 29, 2017

Roll out the red carpet for the second edition of the Thinking Like A Lawyer annual awards. On this star-studded evening, Joe and Elie honored the best — and by that they mean the worst — of the year in law. We laughed, we cried, it was better than Legally Blonde.

Nov 30, 2017

Jonathan Shapiro's career took him from the DOJ, to politics, to writing and producing hit shows from The Practice to The Blacklist to Amazon's Goliath. Along the way he even took a detour back into Biglaw. Joe and Kathryn sit down for a wide-ranging discussion about how a lawyer breaks into Hollywood and how penning lines for James Spader differs from practicing law.

Nov 27, 2017

Joe and guest host Kathryn Rubino talk to Jeff Ton of Bluelock about what's on the horizon for 2018. Ransomware attacks, data disasters, robot lawyers... it actually isn't all as bad as that sounds. Lawyers are notoriously behind the times with technology, so take this podcast as your wake up call. These are the obstacles your practice will face and the tools you'll be working with to solve them.

Oct 31, 2017

Elie and Joe talk with Above the Law's Kathryn Rubino about the challenges faced by women who go into Biglaw. From the struggle for equitable leave policies to hazing to sexual harassment, the legal industry is fraught with obstacles. Kathryn's new project, The Jabot aims to bring together a community to discuss these and other issues facing women and minorities.

Oct 19, 2017

Joe and Elie talk to Cristian Farias about producing a legal podcast non-lawyers listen to, and explaining the Supreme Court to a law audience.

Sep 19, 2017

Joe and Elie talk with Ray English, Career Services Director at Arizona State Sandra Day O'Connor School of Law, about when to start finding a job. (SPOILER ALERT: Now). And how to start finding yourself.

Sep 6, 2017

College football is back in all its amazing and absurdist glory. Texas already lost to Maryland?!?! Cam Newton has a little brother?!?! Joe and Elie took advantage of the dawn of another season to examine the ultimate "JD Advantage" job by talking with Shutdown Fullcast co-host and SB Nation contributor Ryan Nanni about college football and how an NYU Law grad transitioned from Biglaw to covering college sports.

Aug 16, 2017

Remember the right to vote? That was a fun right, wasn't it? Elie and Joe talk to Professor Rick Hasen about the voting rights and redistricting battles being waged at the nation's highest courts. Also, apparently you can run a whole course on what's wrong with election law by only using examples from North Carolina. Good job Tar Heels.

Jul 31, 2017

When Peter Thiel bankrolled Hulk Hogan's ultimately successful suit against Gawker, he didn't just make every litigation financier look bad, he struck another blow in a systematic war on journalists being waged by the powerful. Nobody Speak: Trials of the Free Press , a new documentary by Brian Knappenberger, probes the Hogan case and other assaults on the press featuring interviews with Gawker principals, the staff of the Review-Journal -- the Nevada paper taken over by Sheldon Adelson, and free speech guru Floyd Abrams. Oh and we have a very serious talk about robot cops.

Jul 19, 2017

Joe and Elie discuss the relatively sleepy Supreme Court Term with Goldstein & Russell's Tejinder Singh. How has Gorsuch changed the Court? How mad can one guy get over a footnote? What's really happening with that travel ban? We get to the bottom of all these questions.

Jun 30, 2017

Lost in the shuffle of big headlines at the end the Supreme Court Term was the decision to take on New Jersey's challenge to PASPA, the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act, otherwise known as the "why you can only bet on sports in Nevada law." But as guest Steve Silver of The Legal Blitz explains, this is a potentially huge state's rights case directly linked to the Shelby County voting rights opinion.

Jun 15, 2017

With Harvard following Arizona's lead and accepting GRE scores in the admissions process, more schools are starting to warm to the exam. But is the GRE really as good as the LSAT? Are schools just doing this as a cash grab at the expense of the profession? Elie thinks the GRE is basically filled out in crayon. Joe thinks it's a perfectly acceptable alternative test. Jeff Thomas of Kaplan Test Prep joins the show to say they're both a little right.

May 31, 2017

Above the Law unveils its 2017 law school rankings and uncorks a few surprises. Elie and Joe discuss the new rankings, the ATL methodology, and why everyone should consider the Above the Law rankings if they're deciding on law school with special guest Brian Dalton, Above the Law's Director of Research.

May 25, 2017

As a new crop of law school graduates prepares for the bar exam, Joe and Elie talk to James Mullen of Law School HQ about the "last test you'll ever take." What is a "UBE" and is it a good development? Why are so many people struggling to pass the bar? And, really, what's California's problem?

Apr 28, 2017

Between fake drug bust prom proposals and pulling people over out Christmas gifts, police departments across the country are trying to improve their image in the worst way possible. Joe and Elie discuss how this isn't so much "cute" as "a glaring violation of the Fourth Amendment."

Apr 21, 2017

Joe and Elie open the mailbag and answer questions from listeners trying to decide where to go to law school. Even if you're not facing the precise decisions these listeners have, they hit on major issues that all students should consider in making a law school decision.

Mar 24, 2017

Joe and Elie discuss how they chose their law schools, and how others should do what they say, not necessarily what they did.

Mar 10, 2017

Elie and Joe watched the Oscars like everyone else, and when they saw the Best Picture screw up, they immediately thought what every other lawyer thought... blame the accountants. Caleb Newquist, the founding editor of Going Concern joins the show to talk insider accountant baseball on PwC's embarrassing mistake and why the Oscars won't fire the firm no matter how bad this looked.

Mar 1, 2017

Joe and Elie chat with libel law expert and former Bloomberg Global Media Counsel Charles Glasser about the state of the press going forward. Glasser explains why he’s actually optimistic about freedom of the press, despite Trump’s campaign rhetoric about “opening up” libel law and the mainstream press deciding to hold off-the-record meetings in Trump Tower. This episode originally aired on November 30th, 2016.

Feb 24, 2017

Elie and Joe talk to Gordon Caplan, co-chair of Wilkie Farr, about the firm's representation of Alma Kashkooli, a 12-year-old Iranian girl coming to the U.S. for highly specialized eye surgery in the midst of the administration's travel ban. From arguments in the Turkish airport, to seniors waiting on the courthouse steps to file emergency motions, the saga of aiding this little girl shows the importance of Biglaw pro bono work for people in need.

Jan 31, 2017

In this rebroadcast episode of Thinking Like A Lawyer, Elie and Joe talk with a drone law expert about the expanding rights of drones and the diminishing rights of property owners who want to stop them. Steven Hogan is an associate with the law firm Ausley & McMullen and practices in the areas of commercial litigation and state and federal tax law.

Jan 19, 2017

Elie and Joe talk about Apple, Samsung, knock offs, child labor, Melania Trump, and open toed shoes... in that order... with Fashionista editor Tyler McCall.

Dec 30, 2016

Joe and Elie nominate, debate, and pick winners for a slew of end-of-year awards. The prize money is in the mail. By check. Subject to shipping and handling.

Dec 22, 2016

Joe and ATL Editor Kathryn Rubino discuss Biglaw bonus season as firms place the final cherry atop associate compensation after a tumultuous year of raises. Then they walk through college football bowl season and preview every matchup between teams with ABA accredited law schools because that's exactly what people thinking like lawyers would do.

Nov 30, 2016

Joe and Elie chat with libel law expert and former Bloomberg Global Media Counsel Charles Glasser about the state of the press going forward. Glasser explains why he's actually optimistic about freedom of the press, despite Trump's campaign rhetoric about "opening up" libel law and the mainstream press deciding to hold off-the-record meetings in Trump Tower.

Nov 18, 2016

Joe and Elie talk to fellow ATL editor David Lat about the recent APP Conference in Philadelphia bringing together practitioners and thought leaders to discuss the future of legal practice. And Elie and Joe argue about public schools.

Oct 24, 2016

Joe and Elie have only ever worked in New York law firms, so they're taking some time to focus on the ins and outs of legal markets around the country. First up is Philadelphia, New York's kid brother, to find out exactly what goes on in this city that -- for some firms -- is paying New York-level salaries.

Oct 10, 2016

Elie and Joe chat with SCOTUSBlog contributor and Supreme Court litigator Tejinder Singh about the upcoming Supreme Court Term. The docket lacks the blockbuster issues of past years, but there are still some critical cases pending before the 8-member Court.

Sep 30, 2016

With Elie unavailable, Joe brings on Chad Burton and Nicole Bradick of CuroLegal to cohost a wide-ranging discussion with LegalZoom General Counsel and Corporate Secretary Chas Rampenthal about the role LegalZoom plays in the future of the legal profession from the perspective of both clients and other lawyers. We also ask the most important question: How well did John Travolta capture O.J. Simpson lawyer and LegalZoom cofounder Robert Shapiro.

Aug 31, 2016

Joe and Elie debate the Clinton Foundation, back to school issues, and the efficacy of taking classes with "famous" professors, just so you can name drop at parties.

Aug 11, 2016

Joe and Elie chat with Drew Rossow of the law office of Gregory M. Gantt in Dayton, Ohio, and author of Gotta Catch... A Lawsuit? about the legal challenges surrounding Pokémon Go. It's worth noting that technology moves fast, and since recording this episode, Niantic has released updates via Pokemon Go that have begun to address how both players and businesses can “opt out” and “opt into” the game, along with addressing some safety concerns with more interactive disclaimers.

Jul 28, 2016

Law firms all across the country fell all over themselves last month to hike associate salaries. Elie and Joe chat with Professor Bill Henderson of the Indiana University Maurer School of Law, an expert in legal industry economics, to discuss what just happened and where the industry goes from here. Spoiler: he's not sure everyone should have given out those raises...

Jun 15, 2016

Discussing the whole summer experience of Biglaw life. From summer associate etiquette to proper lunching locations, to living as a full-time associate in a world of summers, we discuss how to tackle the summer and reminisce about our own summer adventures.

Jun 6, 2016

Joe and Elie chat with Research Director Brian Dalton about the latest law school rankings from Above the Law and trends in legal education. Do you want to know where you should go to law school? Do you just want bragging rights over your colleagues from rival schools? Either way this podcast is for you.

Apr 26, 2016

Joe and Elie chat with Dean Strang, the breakout legal star -- if that's the right word for a documentary -- of Netflix's Making A Murderer. Along with attorney Steven Chung, the gang chats with Strang about the state of the criminal justice system and the persistent plague of prosecutorial overreach.

Apr 7, 2016

Elie and First Amendment Lawyer Marc Randazza talk about the Hulk Hogan verdict, the right to be forgotten, and how Europe seems to be getting along just fine without ruining everybody's Google footprints.

Mar 14, 2016

Elie and Joe talk to Professor Peter Irons about Justice Scalia's vacancy and the often very personal stories of the people who bring their cases to the United States Supreme Court. Listen to Elie's mind being blown in real-time by a personal account of the life of Fred Korematsu.

Feb 18, 2016

Elie and Joe talk with a drone law expert about the expanding rights of drones and the diminishing rights of property owners who want to stop them.

Feb 10, 2016

Joe and Elie chat with election law expert Professor Rick Hasen about the Iowa Caucuses, Ted Cruz's infamous mailer, and Citizens United as the presidential election kicks into gear.

Jan 5, 2016

Do Droids have rights in the Star Wars universe? Are they "pets?" Does Jabba's treatment of droids reveal him to be more evil than the Empire? Spoilers follow.

Dec 22, 2015

With the Court seemingly poised to strike down affirmative-action in Fisher v. Texas, Elie, Joe and Renwei Chung debate how we got here and the future of diversity in higher education.

Nov 23, 2015

Elie and Joe chat with Robert Schenk of Schenk Smith and proprietor of the Wedding Industry Law Blog about the oft-overlooked legal minefield that is getting married. Venues, vendors, and "DJ-Gate" loom large as Schenk explains how he found this niche and used it to build his small firm practice.

Nov 9, 2015

Joe and Elie chat with Slate Senior Business and Economics correspondent Jordan Weissmann about the economics of law schools. From Northwestern renaming itself for a huge endowment to a law professor taking to the media to say he sees no problem taking tuition from students who will never be able to practice, the economics of legal academia deserve a serious look. Is the model doomed?

Oct 26, 2015

Joe and Elie chat with Gary Ross of Jackson Ross about starting your own firm, the unique challenges of transactional small law, and his blockbuster Above the Law column about legal sexual prowess.

Oct 19, 2015

Joe and Elie talk with Vanderbilt Career Services Officer Nick Alexiou about the legal job market, and the presidential job market.

Oct 2, 2015

Elie and Joe complain about the media's abysmal coverage of court cases before previewing the upcoming Supreme Court Term with a real-life Supreme Court litigator, Tejinder Singh, a partner at Goldstein & Russell (http://www.goldsteinrussell.com/attorneys/tejinder-singh/) and contributor to SCOTUSBlog. What's next for the Supreme Court? If you said, "a lot of pro-business decisions" you're probably right!

Sep 14, 2015

Elie and Joe talk with Steve Silver of The Legal Blitz about all the off the field problems associated with "OMG I think that's brain coming out of his ear"-Ball.

Aug 31, 2015

Joe talks to Jared Correia, Assistant Director and Senior Law Practice Advisor at LOMAP and host of Legal Talk Network's Legal Toolkit and Lunch Hour Legal Marketing about what lawyers, especially small firm and solo lawyers, need to know about running their own firm. As one might expect, the discussion takes some twists and turns before ending up on the burning question: should you draft Tom Brady in your fantasy draft?

Aug 21, 2015

Joe chats with Kat Griffin of Corporate about women's professional fashion, the confusion of business casual and whether office temperatures unfairly target women.

Aug 10, 2015

Joe and Elie take a break from the usual format to face off in a trivia challenge. Do you know your constitutional amendments? How about your Supreme Court history? Play along at home.

Jul 9, 2015

Elie and Joe speak to Rick Hasen, professor at UC Irvine and author of Election Law Blog. Professor Hasen explains the recent Supreme Court redistricting case, future cases regarding voting rights, and talks about the relationship between the Roberts Court and disenfranchisement. Joe argues for hope while it seems like Elie believes we should be led by a Platonic Philosopher King.

Jun 25, 2015

Joe and Elie talk to Matthew Dowd, a partner at Andrews Kurth. Dowd famously represents the Meitiv family, the parents (now cleared) of child neglect charges for allowing their children, 10 and 6, to walk through their neighborhood unattended. Elie expresses concern over letting children roam free, while Joe thinks independence is key to building character and Dowd walks through the legal landscape that governs parenting in America.

Jun 11, 2015

Elie and Joe chat with Joshua Gilliland and Jessica Mederson of The Legal Geeks about their legal careers and the legal issues surrounding the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Recorded immediately before the release of Avengers 2, they speculate on the legal issues that arise in building genocidal robots, cleaning up the aftermath of superpowered mayhem, and just how terrifying an entity like S.H.I.E.L.D. would be in real life.

May 28, 2015

Elie and Joe talk with Brian Dalton, Research Director at Above the Law, about the 2015 law school rankings published by Above the Law. The annual ranking of the Top 50 law schools in the country boasts some surprising shakeups at the top. After discussing the latest rankings, the gang discusses what really matters: what law school student body would win in a fight.

May 6, 2015

Elie and Joe sit down with Maria de Cesare, a lawyer from a major cable network, to talk about the fabulous life of an entertainment lawyer. After she stops crying, we figure out whether you should be jailed for killing a zombie, or a clone of yourself.

Apr 22, 2015

Elie and Joe sit down with Ryan Morrison, aka The Video Game Attorney, to discuss the emerging legal issues in the video game industry and just how many genocide treaties humans breach in every video game ever.

Mar 12, 2015

It's March Madness time. Or, as a person with a rudmentary respect for trademark laws would say, "It's time for the NCAA Mens College Basketball Tournament." In this episode, we take a look at running an office bracket pool. But it turns out that gambling is illegal in most states. Why is that the case? Should we live in a world where we have laws that nobody even tries to enforce? Guest Steven Silver of The Legal Blitz joins the hosts to explain how we've gotten to the point where nearly every office worker in America breaks the law every March.

Mar 12, 2015

In our inaugural episode, Elie and Joe take a deep dive into their own navels. What kind of person becomes a "legal blogger" in the first place? In the words of Admiral Stockdale (Google him): Who are we? Why are we here?