About this episode
On The Gist, Joe Biden's nose nuzzle. In the interview, Don Winslow's new book The Border is the final part of his trilogy on drug cartels. He's here today to discuss the work, how it's been twenty years in the making, and the difficulty of trying to get things right. In the Spiel, Betsy DeVos' indefensible Special Olympics funding cuts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices