#687: Justin Gary — Taking the Path Less Traveled, The Phenomenon of “Magic: The Gathering,” How Analytical People Can Become “Creative” People, Finding the Third Right Answer, and How to Escape Your Need for Control

Brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs recruitment platform with 900M+ users, ROKA Eyewear high-quality sunglasses and glasses, and AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement. Justin Gary ( @Justin_Gary ) is an award-winning designer, author, speaker, and entrepreneur. He is CEO of Stone Blade Entertainment and creator of the innovative and award-winning Ascension deck-building game series . Prior to designing games, Justin was the youngest ever Magic: The Gathering US National Champion. He has studied creativity and applied the principles of design to create dozens of products over his 20 years in the industry for brands that include Marvel, World of Warcraft , and the Wharton School of Business. Today, he designs, consults, and teaches creativity around the world as a digital nomad. Justin is also the author of Think Like a Game Designer: The Step-By-Step Guide to Unlocking Your Creative Potential and host of the Think Like a Game Designer podcast. Please enjoy! * This episode is brought to you by AG1 ! I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1 , my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG1 further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. Right now, you’ll get a 1-year supply of Vitamin D free with your first subscription purchase —a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit DrinkAG1.com/Tim to claim this special offer today and receive your 1-year supply of Vitamin D (and 5 free AG1 travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive daily, foundational nutrition supplement that supports whole-body health. * This episode is also brought to you by ROKA Eyewear ! ROKA makes the world’s most versatile eyewear—packing all the same features used by Olympic gold medalists and world champions into stylish everyday sunglasses and glasses . I’m incredibly impressed with ROKA . The quality is outstanding, and a lot of my friends who are elite athletes wear them. I’ve been using their Rory blue-light glasses after sunset, and I feel the improvement in my sleep quality. With more than 19,000 five-star reviews, ROKA has created a solution that active people love. Plus, they hand-build their glasses, sunglasses, and reading glasses all in the USA. Check out my favorite frames and get 20% off your first order at Roka.com and use code TIM20 . * This episode is also brought to you by LinkedIn Jobs . Whether you are looking to hire now for a critical role or thinking about needs that you may have in the future, LinkedIn Jobs can help. LinkedIn screens candidates for the hard and soft skills you’re looking for and puts your job in front of candidates looking for job opportunities that match what you have to offer. Using LinkedIn’s active community of more than 900 million professionals worldwide, LinkedIn Jobs can help you find and hire the right person faster. When your business is ready to make that next hire, find the right person with LinkedIn Jobs. And now, you can post a job for free. Just visit LinkedIn.com/Tim . * [07:43] An origin story steeped in Magic. [11:23] A debatable past. [16:38] The life of a full-time Magic competitor. [18:24] A philosophy major. [19:45] Monopoly lessons learned from a family of lawyers. [23:28] Innovations that made Magic an instant success. [26:40] Magic game balance considerations. [30:06] Justin exits his Magic career with an altered mindset. [36:43] Too cool for law school. [41:34] Risk is relative. [43:39] From playing games to designing games. [46:10] A Whack on the Side of the Head. [49:53] Surfacing our assumptions. [54:47] The core design loop and effective brainstorming. [1:00:20] Brainstorming tools. [1:02:01] Prototyping. [1:06:26] The value of ugly first drafts. [1:09:37] From company man to entrepreneur. [1:15:45] Fear-setting and contingency planning. [1:18:13] The early stages of startup life. [1:24:05] TTP. [1:25:21] Taking the company to the next level. [1:31:43] Gaming GAMA and other trade shows. [1:37:02] Eliciting feedback at the playtesting stage. [1:42:32] Ascension debuts at Gen Con. [1:47:04] The finances of game production. [1:51:27] The pros and cons of selling a game to another company. [1:53:54] Favorite failures. [1:59:17] Maintaining relationships through failures. [2:00:45] Lessons learned through trial and error. [2:03:39] Putting the rule of three to work. [2:05:21] Why Justin’s team communicates via Discord. [2:07:49] How a trip to Thailand helped Justin escape his need for control. [2:11:25] Justin’s billboard. [2:12:49] Parting thoughts. * For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show , please visit tim.blog/podcast . For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show , please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsors Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter ( 5-Bullet Friday ) at tim.blog/friday . For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts . Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books . 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