About this episode
What if the rise of Apple also built modern China? a16z’s Erik Torenberg is joined by board partner and former Microsoft Windows chief Steven Sinofsky to unpack how Apple’s pursuit of design excellence and supply chain scale catalyzed China’s manufacturing superpower status - and why that partnership is now under intense scrutiny. Inspired by the book Apple in China (but not a book review), the episode dives deep into: The early days of Apple’s shift to Chinese manufacturing What experts got wrong in 1999 about trade, globalization, and China’s trajectory How Tim Cook’s operational playbook reshaped the global tech industry Behind-the-scenes stories from Microsoft’s own hardware battles and Surface launch Why Apple’s entanglement with China may now be a strategic liability What COVID revealed about fragile global dependencies — and where innovation goes next How national policy, intellectual property, and AI intersect in the new industrial era The episode opens with a few reactions to WWDC: Apple’s new UI, the iPad’s evolving role, and why Apple’s AI story still feels unfinished - before zooming out into one of the most consequential tech and geopolitical stories of our time. TImecodes: 00:00 Introduction 00:37 Guest Introduction: Steven Sinofsky 00:49 WWDC Reactions and Apple's AI Story 02:27 WWDC Highlights: Liquid Glass and iPad Updates 05:16 Apple's AI Strategy and Market Dynamics 06:34 Meta's AI Moves and Market Implications 13:30 Apple's Manufacturing Evolution: From Garage to Global 20:50 The Rise of ODMs and Global Manufacturing 26:32 Microsoft's Struggle with Piracy in China 27:19 Apple's Revolutionary MacBook Air 29:30 Challenges in PC Manufacturing 31:05 The Rise of Chinese Manufacturing Skills 32:07 The Point of No Return for Apple and China 32:59 Global Trade and Intellectual Property Issues 37:04 COVID-19's Impact on Global Manufacturing 41:19 Future of Innovation and Manufacturing 47:10 Navigating Intellectual Property in the AI Era 48:55 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Resources: Find Steven on X: https://x.com/stevesi Find Erik on X: https://x.com/eriktorenberg Stay Updated: Let us know what you think: https://ratethispodcast.com/a16z Find a16z on Twitter: https://twitter.com/a16z Find a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16z Subscribe on your favorite podcast app: https://a16z.simplecast.com/ Follow our host: https://x.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Stay Updated: Find a16z on X Find a16z on LinkedIn Listen to the a16z Show on Spotify Listen to the a16z Show on Apple Podcasts Follow our host: https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.