About this episode
What’s the difference between empathy and compassion—and why does it matter so deeply for those in caregiving professions? In this moving and insightful conversation, our Guiding Teachers Koshin Paley Ellison and Chodo Robert Campbell sit down with Dr. Judson Brewer, renowned psychiatrist, neuroscientist, bestselling author, and faculty member of the Contemplative Medicine Fellowship . Together, they explore the nuanced terrain of emotional presence, personal boundaries, burnout, and healing—both personal and collective. Drawing from clinical research, Buddhist psychology, personal stories, and decades of experience in contemplative and medical education, the conversation opens with a core distinction: empathy as the capacity to feel another’s pain, and compassion as the act of being with suffering without being consumed by it. Through real-world examples, they illuminate how unchecked empathy can lead to exhaustion, resentment, or disconnection, while compassion—rooted in curiosity, humility, and care—becomes a practice that sustains rather than depletes. They speak candidly about what it means to “take suffering home,” the toll of hero culture in medicine, and how unexamined habit loops can reinforce burnout. And they reflect on how true community—a circle of care and connection—is not a luxury, but a necessary medicine. Whether you’re a clinician, chaplain, caregiver, or simply someone walking with others through difficult times, this episode offers deep insight into how we might care with more courage, clarity, and joy. Learn more about Contemplative Medicine/Care → May 21st: We'll be hosting a free online info session for our Contemplative Medicine Fellowship . All physicians, advanced practice registered nurses, and PAs are invited to learn more about the program and apply for our fifth cohort! → June 4th: We'll also be hosting a free online info session for our Foundations in Contemplative Care program, now in its 18th year! Anyone interested in integrating their spiritual practice with service in the world is invited to learn more and apply. → September 24th – 28th: Our annual Contemplative Care Retreat held at the Garrison Institute will be led by Koshin Sensei, Chodo Sensei, Ayo Yetunde, Dan and Bianca Harris, and other guest teachers to be announced soon. Whether you are new to meditation and integrating spiritual practice with care or you are an experienced practitioner needing reinvigoration, this retreat is for you. The retreat also serves as a reunion for alumni of our Foundations in Contemplative Care and Contemplative Medicine Fellowship programs.