Episodes

4d ago

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into George Orwell's infamous essay on sport, specifically focusing on Dinamo Moscow's 1945 tour of Britain. They explore Orwell's controversial viewpoint that serious sport is akin to 'war minus the shooting,' and delve into the historical and political context of this post-WWII football tour. The discussion covers the tactical innovations introduced by the Soviet team, the media and public's reaction, and the broader implications for international sport and politics. This episode provides an in-depth look at how football can both unite and divide, reflecting on Orwell's critique and its relevance to today's sports culture. 00:00 Introduction: The Dark Side of Sports 01:05 George Orwell's Influence on Sports 01:49 The Political Context of the 1945 Moscow Tour 02:47 The Goodwill Tour: Ideals vs. Reality 05:00 The Soviet Union's Football Strategy 08:23 The Arrival of Dinamo Moscow 21:45 The First Match: Dinamo Moscow vs Chelsea 30:53 The Political Showdown: Arsenal vs Dinamo Moscow 32:31 The Final Game in Scotland 35:56 Soviet Propaganda and the Legacy of the Tour 40:36 Tactical Innovations and English Football's Response 47:36 George Orwell's Critique of Sport 53:18 Football's Role in Nationalism and International Relations 01:00:51 Concluding Thoughts on Orwell and Football Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dec 9

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by special guest and historian David Goldblatt. In this episode, they discuss David's new book, 'Injury Time,' which examines the impact of recent seismic events like Brexit, COVID-19, and populism on football in Britain. They delve into the popularity of football despite its numerous challenges, the economic disparities within the game, and the global obsession with the Premier League. The conversation also touches on the significance of football as a cultural and political space, the rise of women's football, and the ethical concerns surrounding state ownership of clubs. They also examine the role of fans and community. This episode provides a comprehensive look at the current state and the future of the beautiful game. 00:00 Introduction 00:55 The State of Football Today 03:21 Football as a National Obsession 07:41 Globalisation and Football's Cultural Impact 19:12 Economic Disparities in Football 21:35 Football Reflecting Social Inequalities 29:50 Football's Role in Social and Political Issues 31:20 The Role of Football in Society 33:38 Economic Inequality in Football 36:50 The Super League Controversy 41:25 Cultural Resistance and Football's Future 54:42 The Impact of COVID on Football 59:20 State Involvement in Football 01:02:11 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dec 2

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper look into the dark and controversial period of Streltsov’s life. In this second part we cover the heinous crime that Streltsov was accused of, the subsequent trial and conviction, and his years in the Gulag. Despite the damning evidence, Streltsov's eventual return to football and continued popularity are explored, along with the societal implications and unresolved questions surrounding his story. Join us for a detailed look at both the fall and unexpected resurgence of a man once considered the 'Russian Pele.’ This episode contains discussion of sexual abuse and rape, which some listeners may find distressing. If you’ve been affected by any of the issues raised, the NHS provides a list of support services and resources here: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/sexual-health/help-after-rape-and-sexual-assault 00:00 A Dark Story Unfolds 00:31 The Accusation and Confession 04:50 The Aftermath and Public Reaction 05:40 Evidence and Forensic Details 07:05 The State's Role 08:22 Personal Struggles and Downfall 23:42 Speculations and Suspicions 26:14 The Case Against Streltsov 28:14 The Soviet State's Role 30:31 Marina's Disappearance 32:08 Life in the Gulag 40:15 Streltsov’s Return to Football 48:21 Legacy and Controversy 52:06 Conclusion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nov 25

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the story of Eduard Streltsov, the 'Russian Pele'. In the first part of this two-part series, we trace Streltsov's meteoric rise from a poor upbringing to becoming a celebrated football talent. Witness his groundbreaking performances, his early brush with fame, and the personal flaws that began to unravel his career. Discover the events leading up to the fateful allegations that would ultimately tarnish his legacy. Join us as we unveil the complexities and the promises cut short in the life of one of Soviet football's most enigmatic figures. This episode contains discussion of sexual abuse and rape, which some listeners may find distressing. If you’ve been affected by any of the issues raised, the NHS provides a list of support services and resources here: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/sexual-health/help-after-rape-and-sexual-assault 00:00 Introduction 03:38 The Soviet Football Landscape in the 1950s 09:35 Streltsov's Early Life and Family Background 16:31 Streltsov's Football Career Takes Off 20:40 The 1956 Olympics and Missed Opportunities 25:17 The Medal That Never Was 27:01 The Downfall Begins 30:37 A Pattern of Trouble 49:50 Streltsov's Arrest 50:12 Confession and Public Outcry Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nov 18

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue the extraordinary story of Imre Hirschl, the Hungarian who revolutionised South American football. In this second part, we look into Hirschl's impact on Uruguay's historic 1950 World Cup victory and his innovative tactics at Club Atlético Peñarol and River Plate. Discover how Hirschl's genius and controversial methods shaped football history, transforming teams and leaving a lasting legacy on the footballing world. 00:45 The Tactical Mastermind Behind Uruguay's Success 01:55 Controversial Matches and Referee Decisions 05:20 The Dominance of the Big Five in Argentinian Football 08:37 Hirschl's move to River Plate 11:59 Tactical Evolution and Direct Play 16:55 Hircshl’s Downfall and Match-Fixing Allegations 21:06 Return to Coaching and Success in Uruguay 28:22 Strict Discipline and Unique Methods 29:09 Young Players and Team Dynamics 31:14 Campaign for National Coach 31:59 Political Disputes and Appointments 33:22 World Cup Preparations and Chaos 35:43 Uruguay's Tactical Genius 37:11 The Shocking World Cup Final 43:48 Aftermath and Legacy 44:58 Hirschl's Influence and Final Years Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nov 11

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper deep dive into the extraordinary story of Imre Hirschl, the Hungarian who took South American football by storm. In this first part of a two-part series we hear the story of Hirschl's early life, his emigration to South America, and his unexpected rise to coaching fame in Argentina. From starting as a salami salesman to becoming the mastermind behind Gimnasia y Esgrima La Plata's success, Hirschl's tale is one of perseverance, innovation, and tactical genius. Tune in to discover the myths, challenges, and triumphs of this unlikely football legend who redefined the game during the early 20th century. 00:00 The Unlikely Beginnings of a Coaching Legend 03:46 The Hungarian Influence on South American Football 07:59 Unraveling the Myths and Realities 09:40 A Journey Through War and Immigration 16:29 The Butcher Turned Football Visionary 21:55 The Mystery of Hirschl's Football Career 24:38 Meeting Béla Guttmann and the Next Chapter 26:21 Hirschl's Coaching Journey Begins 28:14 Tactical Innovations and Success 30:21 Challenges and Triumphs in Argentina 31:14 Early Coaching Stint in Brazil 32:42 Struggles and Determination 42:21 Hirschl's Coaching Philosophy 46:48 Building a Winning Team 49:32 Conclusion and Future Prospects Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nov 4

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this second part on data in football, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their exploration into how data analytics transformed modern football. This episode delves into Liverpool's remarkable journey using data and how it helped them to win the Champions League in 2019 and the Premier League in 2020. We take a look at the story behind key figures like Ian Graham and Michael Edwards, exploring their early skepticism, the challenges they faced, and the groundbreaking decisions that followed. Discover how Liverpool's recruitment strategy evolved with data, featuring key transfers such as Sadio Mané, Mohamed Salah, and Andy Robertson. Discover the tensions and synergies between data-driven decisions and traditional football instincts that reshaped Liverpool and influenced their remarkable success under Jürgen Klopp. 00:44 The Role of Data in Football 02:00 Key Figures: Ian Graham and Michael Edwards 03:17 Michael Edwards' Journey 07:18 Early Skepticism and Challenges 12:39 Liverpool's Data Revolution 14:54 Transfer Market Strategies 18:35 Cultural Clashes and Successes 26:24 Ian Graham's Role in Liverpool's Data Revolution 27:42 The Transfer Committee's Struggles and Criticisms 30:23 Jurgen Klopp's Introduction to Data Analytics 35:49 The Impact of Data on Key Signings 42:12 The Evolution and Challenges of Data-Driven Decisions 44:43 The Future of Data in Football 51:47 Conclusion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oct 28

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by journalist, broadcaster and author of 'Expected Goals: The story of how data conquered football and changed the game' Rory Smith. In today’s episode we explore the fascinating journey of data analytics in football. From the early days of Charles Reep and Valeriy Lobanovskyi's basic data collection to the revolutionary 1990s that saw a surge in clubs like Liverpool using a data-driven approach under Ian Graham and Michael Edwards to lead to Premier League success. We also look at how clubs like Bolton Wanderers under Sam Allardyce leveraged data to gain a competitive edge and and the cultural shift towards data in football management. Tune in to understand how data played a crucial role in some of the greatest footballing successes of the modern era. 00:00 Introduction and Welcoming Rory Smith 00:42 The Evolution of Data in Football 01:29 The Role of Data Collectors 05:04 Prozone and Early Data Pioneers 11:17 The Culture War: Nerds vs. Scouts 12:17 Sam Allardyce: The Unlikely Data Advocate 23:32 Moneyball and Its Impact on Football 27:24 Decision Technology and Early Predictions 28:06 The Role of Data in Football Predictions 28:48 The Fink Tank Column and Its Impact 31:09 Spurs' Missed Opportunity with Data 32:56 Tottenham's Early Adoption of Data Analytics 41:11 Liverpool's Data-Driven Transformation 47:10 The Cultural Shift Towards Data in Football 58:44 The Importance of Communication in Data Utilisation 59:45 Conclusion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oct 21

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this second episode of a two-part special, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their exploration of Lionel Messi's early years, focusing on his journey from 2005 to the cusp of greatness in 2008. This episode delves into pivotal moments such as Messi's breakthrough in Barcelona's first team, his dramatic red card on his Argentina debut, and his developing relationship with key figures like Ronaldinho. We take a look at Messi's significant impact in the Joan Gamper Trophy, his hat-trick against Real Madrid in the El Clásico, and his stunning solo goal against Getafe. The episode also sheds light on the internal struggles and political tensions within Argentina's national team during the 2006 World Cup, and the influence of Barcelona's management in shaping Messi's career path. Join us as explore the trials and triumphs that shaped Messi into one of football's greatest ever. 00:00 Introduction: Messi's Early Brilliance 00:40 Messi's Breakthrough in 2005 01:23 Homesickness 04:00 Argentina Debut: A Rocky Start 09:25 Barcelona's Dilemma 11:31 Rising Star: The Joan Gamper Trophy 13:52 Contract Negotiations and Transfer Rumors 17:34 Messi's Impact in La Liga and Champions League 25:29 Messi's Diet and Lifestyle Concerns 26:11 Injury Setback and Return to Training 27:26 Champions League Final Disappointment 31:22 World Cup 2006: Argentina's Journey 36:07 Quarter-Final Clash with Germany 42:25 Barcelona's Decline and Messi's Rise 46:57 Ronaldinho's Influence and Messi's Future 49:10 Conclusion and Future Prospects Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oct 14

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson delve into Lionel Messi's early years at Barcelona and his rise to stardom. They explore Messi's journey from his initial signing to the club in 2000 to the early recognition of his talent by notable figures like Ronaldinho. The episode highlights Messi's challenges, including his growth hormone treatment and cultural adjustments as a young Argentine in Spain. Key moments such as his interactions with future stars like Gerard Piqué, Cesc Fàbregas, as well as his significant contributions to Barcelona's youth and first teams, which are discussed in detail. This episode covers his early setbacks, first team debut, and eventual triumphs, culminating in his standout performance at the 2005 FIFA U20 World Cup. Join us as we uncover how Messi went from a promising youngster to an emerging superstar at Barcelona. 00:00 Introduction to the episode 00:40 Messi's Signing and Initial Challenges 01:15 Settling in Barcelona: Cultural and Personal Struggles 05:51 Integration and Early Successes 20:40 Political Chaos and Youth Team Dynamics 23:33 Messi's Rising Star and International Attention 27:06 First Impressions and Early Training 27:39 Debut and Initial Reactions 29:37 Contract Negotiations and Adjustments 32:48 National Team Dilemmas 38:31 Integration into Barcelona's First Team 46:27 Under-20 World Cup and Rising Stardom 51:18 Conclusion and Looking Ahead Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oct 7

In this episode of It Was What It Was, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the decline of Nottingham Forest following their European Cup victories. This final part of a four-part special looks at the financial turmoil, management struggles, and internal conflicts that marked the club's subsequent years. Join us as we discuss how the relationship between Brian Clough and Peter Taylor deteriorated, the club’s misjudged transfers, and the impact of Clough's growing dependence on alcohol. From the fallouts to the poignant departures, this episode covers the unraveling of a once-glorious team and the tragedy of a fractured partnership. 00:00 Financial Woes and Disappointment 00:50 The Decline Begins 02:32 Unraveling Behind the Scenes 04:18 Transfer Turmoil 09:24 Clough and Taylor's Strained Relationship 14:11 Financial Scandals and Internal Strife 18:05 The Breaking Point 29:03 Clough's Controversial Decisions 32:24 Financial Struggles and Player Transfers 37:18 Clough's Health and Alcohol Issues 45:02 The Breakup with Peter Taylor 48:20 Reflecting on Clough and Taylor's Legacy 51:29 Clough's Changing Management Style 53:43 The Greatest Achievement in European Football 55:28 Conclusion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sep 30

In this episode of It Was What It Was, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue the story of Brian Clough’s Nottingham Forest, following on from their European Cup victory in the last episode. This third part of a four-part special covers the 1979-80 season, looking at how Forest overcame obstacles both on and off the pitch to claim their second successive European Cup. Within the season there are some highs and lows, from overcoming unexpected challenges, and navigating crucial European fixtures to dealing with internal instability and controversial management methods. From high-profile transfers to unforgettable European nights, tune in to discover how this extraordinary team went on to write another chapter in their illustrious history. 00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene 01:03 Nottingham Forest's European Campaign Begins 01:28 Key Transfers and Management Decisions 07:47 Unexpected Challenges and Controversies 20:31 European Cup Quarter-Finals 28:52 The Importance of Team Camaraderie 30:19 Challenges and Strategies in European Matches 32:38 Player Management and Injuries 36:23 Prepping for the European Cup Final 42:49 The Final Match Against Hamburg 51:03 Post-Match Reflections and Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sep 23

In this episode of It Was What It Was, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their deep dive into Brian Clough's transformative tenure at Nottingham Forest. This second part of a four-part special, captures the thrilling journey as Forest ventures into the European Cup, starting from their incredible 5-1 victory over AEK Athens and leading up to their historic final against Malmö. Expect to hear detailed anecdotes and insights revealing Clough's unique management style, key matches and significant strategic decisions, including the controversial but ultimately successful signing of Trevor Francis for a British record fee. Join us to explore how a team from the second division ascended to the pinnacle of European football. 00:28 Introduction to Nottingham Forest's European Journey 01:26 Forest's Rise to European Dominance 01:46 The Quest for the European Cup 03:36 Strategic Moves and Key Decisions 10:02 Facing Liverpool in the European Cup 12:42 The Tactical Genius of Clough and Taylor 26:17 The Aftermath and Moving Forward 26:38 Unbeaten Streak and Chairman Change 27:35 European Cup Drama: Forest vs. AEK Athens 28:19 Clough's Management Style and Larry Lloyd Incident 30:55 Training Anecdotes and Managerial Hypocrisy 37:39 Trevor Francis Joins Forest 40:51 League Cup Final and European Cup Quarter-Finals 42:25 Semi-Final Showdown Against Cologne 48:37 European Cup Final Against Malmö 55:27 Forest Crowned European Champions Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sep 16

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper set the stage for Brian Clough’s remarkable journey to becoming manager of Nottingham Forest in this first part of a four-part-special. After his departure from Leeds, Clough takes on the challenge of revitalising a mid-table second division team into a team that dominates English and European football. Clough's reunion with assistant Peter Taylor plays a pivotal role as they sign key players like Peter Shilton and Kenny Burns. This episode looks at the early challenges faced, strategic player signings, and the pivotal moments that laid the groundwork for Nottingham Forest's incredible achievements. Join us as we set the stage for one of football's most astonishing success stories. 01:09 The Rise and Fall of Brian Clough 08:30 Clough's Early Struggles at Nottingham Forest 21:03 Clough's Confrontational Style 24:44 Building the Foundation for Success 27:07 The Clough-Taylor Partnership 27:39 Taylor's Reluctance and Reconciliation 28:52 Building a Winning Team 31:16 The Anglo-Scottish Cup Victory 33:37 Promotion to the Top Flight 34:43 Strengthening the Squad 36:33 Clough's England Manager Candidacy 42:11 A Defensive Strategy for Success 46:46 Winning the League and Beyond 52:15 Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sep 9

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson delve into Manchester United’s 1985-86 season - a campaign filled with promise, passion, and ultimately, heartbreak. A year that began with soaring hopes and a record-breaking unbeaten run, unravels in a whirlwind of injuries, off-field drama, and missed opportunities. We’ll explore the highs and lows of Ron Atkinson’s final full season in charge, from the electric atmosphere at Old Trafford to the heartbreak of falling short in the title race. Expect in-depth analysis of key matches, player performances, and the pivotal moments that defined the season as Rob and Jonathan relive the excitement, the agony, and the legacy of 1985-86. 00:29 – The 1985-86 Season: High Hopes and Early Promise 01:49 – Ron Atkinson’s Arrival and United’s Managerial History 04:38 – The Big Ron Era: Style, Successes, and Setbacks 08:41 – The Bryan Robson Factor: United’s Dependence 13:23 – Squad Building, Transfers, and Team Dynamics 17:13 – Cup Runs, League Frustrations, and Dressing Room Drama 24:50 – The State of English Football in the Mid-80s 25:59 – The 1985-86 Season Kicks Off 27:50 – United’s Record-Breaking Start 32:41 – The Winning Streak and Early League Dominance 39:13 – Injuries, Draws, and the Beginning of the Decline 43:34 – Mark Hughes’ Transfer Saga and Off-Field Turmoil 47:03 – The Drinking Culture and Its Impact 49:43 – The Collapse: Losing Form and the Title 54:56 – The End of the Atkinson Era 59:18 – The Arrival of Sir Alex Ferguson & Reflections Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sep 5

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast hosted by Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper. In this second episode of a two-part special, we delve into the pivotal moments that lifted the 50-year ban on women's football in England. From the formation of the Women’s Football Association, to looking at the birth of the Lionesses and their first official international match. This episode looks at the pioneering women and their allies who revived the game in the 1960s, building grassroots clubs, fighting for recognition to pave the way for women’s football today. Tune in to hear all about the history of the women’s game. 00:00 The End of the Ban 00:28 Picking Up the Pieces: Women’s Football After the Ban 00:53 The 1960s Revival: Grassroots and New Teams 03:10 The Impact of England’s 1966 World Cup Win 07:54 Building a Movement: Key Figures and Early Clubs 10:56 Struggles for Facilities and Recognition 12:50 International Influence 21:22 The Formation of the Women’s Football Association 24:32 The FA’s Changing Attitude and Official Recognition 27:20 The First Women’s FA Cup and International Competitions 29:40 Tensions: Unofficial vs. Official Tournaments 36:52 The Lost Lionesses: Mexico 1971 and Unrecognised Pioneers 40:26 The First Official Lionesses Game: Scotland vs. England, 1972 45:44 Media Coverage and Social Attitudes 47:44 Timeline: From the First Match to Modern Success 50:08 Reflections: The Legacy of the Pioneers Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sep 2

Welcome back to another episode of It Was What It Was with hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper as they delve into the history of The Lionesses and the true story behind the first ever women's Euros. This episode explores the struggles and triumphs of women's football, from the controversial FA ban in 1921, to England's historic victory in the 2025 Euros. Rob and Jonathan look into the pioneering efforts of teams like the Dick, Kerr Ladies and the Manchester Corinthians, looking at how women's football overcame a 50-year ban to shine on the world stage. Join us as we uncover the groundbreaking stories and resilient pioneers behind this incredible journey through a century of women's football history. 00:00 Introduction: Girls and Football 00:51 The Ban on Women's Football 01:37 The Struggle and Triumph of Women's Football 03:02 The Dick, Kerr Ladies and Their Legacy 04:22 The Impact of the FA Ban 07:00 International Tours and Recognition 12:59 Manchester Corinthians: A New Hope 18:34 Cultural Contrasts in Women's Football 20:48 The First Women's Euros: A Hidden History 22:10 The Rise and Fall of the International Ladies Football Association 26:21 Manchester Corinthians: Pioneers of Women's Football 32:21 Missed Opportunities and Reflections 38:44 Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Aug 29

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper welcome special guest Euan Flynn, author of 'When the Year Ends in One,' to discuss Tottenham Hotspur's momentous 1990-91 season. The episode delves into Paul Gascoigne's tearful departure due to a career-threatening injury during the FA Cup final and the financial turmoil facing the club, which saw a potential world-record transfer deal collapse. The podcast covers the epic highs and disastrous lows of that pivotal season, from Gascoigne's mesmerizing FA Cup run to the behind-the-scenes financial entanglements involving Irving Scholar and the club's eventual acquisition by Alan Sugar. Tune in for an in-depth look at how this season had ramifications far beyond the football pitch. 00:00 Gascoigne's Injury and Tottenham's Financial Crisis 00:37 Introduction to the Special Episode 01:41 The Pivotal 1990-91 Season 02:19 Tottenham's Financial Woes and Ownership Issues 04:03 The Year Ending in One: A Superstition Explained 05:21 Gascoigne's Meteoric Rise and Media Frenzy 08:02 The Illusion of a Title Challenge 10:18 Irving Scholar's Takeover and Financial Missteps 21:13 The Culture and Discipline at Tottenham 23:46 The FA Cup Run Begins 31:36 The Pressure on Young Athletes 32:28 The Semifinal at Wembley 34:00 Venables and the Mysterious Financier 40:34 The FA Cup Final Build-Up 47:23 The Dramatic FA Cup Final 54:36 The Aftermath and Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Aug 26

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson delve into the life of OrestesCorbatta, a legendary Argentine footballer whose story combines brilliance and tragedy. Known for his dazzling dribbling skills and audacious playstyle, Corbatta played a crucial role in Argentina's 1957 Campeonato Sudamericano win. However, despite his football genius, Corbatta's life was marred by alcoholism and personal struggles. The episode explores his rise from a rural town to becoming a national icon, his struggles with illiteracy, and the personal traumas that impacted his career. Draper and Wilson also discuss the broader significance of Corbatta's style in the context of Argentine football, drawing parallels to legends like Maradona and Messi. Join us as we remember the poetic yet tragic life of Omar Orestes Corbatta, a player whose legacy continues to influence Argentine football today. 00:00 Introduction 01:31 The Significance of the 1957 Campeonato Sudamericano 04:39 The Evolution of Argentinian Football 09:34 The Five Simbas and Their Impact 16:08 The Role of Radio in Argentinian Football Culture 19:31 The Decline and Shift in Argentinian Football 23:42 The Duality of Argentinian Football: Beauty and Cynicism 26:15 The Tragic Figure of Coba 27:25 Early Life and Struggles 29:49 Rise to Fame and Personal Challenges 33:50 The Decline Begins 38:46 Final Years and Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Aug 22

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the Football History podcast hosted by Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper. In this second episode of a two-part special, we explore the life of Mohamed Salah - from winning his third PFA player of the year award, to the pressures and the complex political landscape he navigates in Egypt . We delve into Salah's impact in the UK, his challenging relationship with International football, from rural Egypt to the global stage, Mohamed Salah's journey is as thrilling as it is complex. Join us for an in-depth look at one of the most intriguing figures in modern football. 00:00 Introduction 00:44 Mohamed Salah's Political and Cultural Significance 03:01 The Complexities of Expressing Political Views 05:02 Historical Context: Egypt's Political Landscape 14:19 The Arab Spring and Its Aftermath 24:06 Mohamed Salah's Relationship with the Egyptian National Team 27:40 High Stakes in World Cup Play-offs 28:35 Egypt's Football Legacy and Recent Struggles 29:55 The 2018 World Cup Disappointment 31:56 Controversies and Criticisms 37:59 Political Pressures and Social Media 44:46 Salah's Impact in the UK 49:24 The Ballon d'Or and Future Prospects Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Aug 19

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today, co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson are joined by Ed Aarons from The Guardian to discuss the incredible journey of Mohamed Salah. With the PFA Footballer of the Year awards tonight, Salah's early life and career beginnings are explored in depth. Ed shares his research from travels to Salah's hometown in Egypt, providing unique insights into the challenges Salah faced, including the long commute for training and the support from his family. The episode covers Salah’s initial struggles, his move to Basel, and his eventual breakout that caught the attention of major clubs. Join us to learn how Salah's dedication and hard work paved the way for his renowned career. 00:00 Introduction and Today's Topic: Mohamed Salah 00:38 Guest Introduction: Ed Aarons 00:54 Journey to Egypt: Tracing Salah's Roots 01:54 Experiences in Salah's Hometown 03:22 Salah's Early Life and Football Beginnings 12:39 Challenges and Dedication in Salah's Youth 18:40 Salah's Transition to Professional Football 21:29 Cultural and Personal Insights on Salah 22:11 Salah's Early Professional Struggles 23:53 The Turning Point: Mastering the Art of Finishing 25:09 Early Career Struggles and Breakthroughs 26:33 International Recognition and Olympic Success 30:10 The Tragic Event That Changed Everything 31:31 The Move to Basel: Trials and Triumphs 39:00 Challenges at Chelsea and the Path to Greatness 44:26 Liverpool's Perfect Fit: Salah's Rise to Stardom 46:25 National Team Challenges and Rivalries 49:57 Legacy and Comparisons: The Greatest African Player? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Aug 15

On today's episode of It Was What It Was, hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson explore a crucial moment in Premier League history: José Mourinho's dramatic 2015/16 season at Chelsea. They discuss Mourinho's second sacking at Chelsea and the key incidents that led to his sacking just 6 months after winning the title, including the infamous Eva Carneiro incident and clashes with players like Eden Hazard, and a turbulent pre-season tour. The episode examines how these factors contributed to a season of rapid decline, leading to Mourinho's sacking and raising questions about his methods in modern football. 00:00 Introduction 00:33 Reflecting on Jose Mourinho's 2015 Season 01:42 The Beginning of the End: Preseason Signs 06:01 The Eva Carneiro Incident 14:29 Preseason Tour Troubles 20:50 Early Season Struggles 26:07 The Impact of the Eva Carneiro Affair 27:54 Conclusion and Transition to Second Half 29:04 Chelsea's Struggles Begin 29:31 Tactical Changes and Player Issues 30:33 Transfer Market Woes 33:33 Leadership Void and Dressing Room Dynamics 37:43 Marino's Public Outbursts 45:57 The Final Straw: Leicester Defeat 48:21 Marino's Departure and Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Aug 12

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by guest Jan Åge Fjørtoft to explore the groundbreaking transfer of Brazilian footabller Juninho to Middlesbrough in 1995. The discussion explores the players’ previous career highlights, the unique challenges they faced adjusting to English football, and the cultural impact of Juninho's arrival on the Premier League. Special focus is given to the transformational role this transfer played in attracting world-class talent to mid-level English clubs. Jan gives insightful stories and personal anecdotes surrounding how Juninho became a beloved figure at Middlesbrough and his lasting legacy in English football history. 00:00 Introduction and Today's Topic 01:12 Early Career and Move to Rapid Vienna 02:32 Transition to English Football 04:49 Joining Middlesbrough and Early Impressions 13:26 The Impact of Janio's Signing 16:51 Cultural Adjustments and Training Challenges 19:07 Middlesbrough's Transformation and Community Connection 30:28 Cultural Insights from Middlesbrough 31:02 Tactical Evolution in English Football 31:45 Adapting to English Football's Physicality 36:23 Weather and Training Challenges 40:25 The Impact of Foreign Signings 50:10 Middlesbrough's Tumultuous Season 59:09 Legacy of Jan Nino and the Premier League Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Aug 8

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In Part Two of our series on Don Revie's Leeds United, co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson explore the origins of the 'Dirty Leeds' tag. This episode delves into the notorious 1964 match against Everton that cemented the club's aggressive reputation. It discusses the reactions from fans and media, the role of football associations, and Revie's responses. Our conclusion also examines the cultural and tactical shifts in football during the 1960s and how Leeds' image became a point of controversy and unity for the team and its supporters. Tune in to uncover the complexities behind one of football's most infamous labels. Please remember to share, rate, review and comment to help It Was What It Was grow. 00:00 Introduction 01:36 The Dirty Leeds Tag 03:46 Don Revy's Management Style 27:43 Promotion and the Great Moral Panic 29:21 The Notorious Game against Everton at Goodison 30:37 Media and Public Perception 31:47 Football's Changing Landscape 33:04 The Birth of 'Dirty Leeds' 41:30 Revie's Reaction and Amplification 56:04 Conclusion and Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Aug 5

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this episode, co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson discuss the significant impact of Don Revie on Leeds United and English football. The episode covers Revie's early career, his transition into management, and his influence on Leeds United. The narrative delves into the challenges Leeds faced before Revie's arrival, his innovative approaches, and the beginning of Leeds' transformation. This is the first part of a series exploring the legendary 'Dirty Leeds' era, their historical context, and whether they really were 'dirty' or just misunderstood. Join us for Part Two on Friday. 00:00 Introduction 01:03 The Controversial Reputation of Leeds United 03:21 Historical Context of Leeds United 04:26 The West Stand Fire and Financial Crisis 06:42 Managerial Struggles and Relegation 17:33 Don Revie's Appointment and Early Life 26:08 Revie's Early Career and Influence of Smith 28:34 Revie's Superstitions and Misfortunes 35:37 Transition to Manchester City and the Revie Plan 41:17 Billy Bremner's influence 47:59 Revie's Managerial Beginnings at Leeds 49:41 Conclusion and Teaser for the Part Two Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Aug 1

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper bring part two into the fascinating and tragic story of Red Star Belgrade's triumphant 1991 European Cup campaign. They discuss Red Star's status as underdogs against Bayern Munich in the semifinal, their intricate path to victory amidst the backdrop of Yugoslavia's impending civil war, and the dramatic events of the legendary matches. This episode highlights not just the team's achievements on the field, but also the historical, cultural, and political context that made their victory the last moment of unity for Yugoslav football before the nation's fragmentation. Additionally, the episode covers the aftermath of the war on Red Star and the once-great football culture of the region. 00:00 Introduction 03:18 Quarter-Final Against Dynamo Dresden 04:43 Political Tensions and the Road to the Semi-Final 08:36 The Complexities of Yugoslavia's Ethnic Divisions 12:36 The Semi-Final Against Bayern Munich 21:13 The Dramatic Second Leg against Bayern Munich 35:43 The Aftermath and Celebrations 36:16 Final against Marseille 44:13 Post-Match Reflections and Legacy 49:43 Impact of War on Red Star Belgrade 53:48 Croatian Football's Success 56:59 Conclusion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jul 29

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson explore the history of Red Star Belgrade, focusing on their monumental 1991 European Cup win against a backdrop of Yugoslavia's political turmoil and impending civil war. This episode explores the club's founding, cultural significance, and key players, including the dramatic escape of Miodrag Belodedici from Romania. They also detail the influence of notorious figures like Arkan and the emotional scenes in Belgrade during this turbulent time. Part Two will release on Friday. 00:00 Introduction 06:19 Political Tensions and Football 09:31 The Riot at Maksimir Stadium 16:36 Arkan's Criminal Background 25:04 Arkan's Bonkers Wedding and Return to War 27:23 The Rise and Fall of Arkan 29:39 Red Star Belgrade: Historical Context and Formation 31:13 The Intellectual and Working-Class Roots of Red Star 36:24 Red Star's European Struggles and Triumphs 39:52 The Escape and Signing of Miodrag Belodedici 44:32 The 1991 Season and Key Changes 47:48 Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jul 25

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this episode, co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson bring their second and final part of their series on the Death Match, one of the most mythologized football games of all time. Occurring in Nazi-occupied Kyiv, Ukraine, this match between Start, a team formed mostly of former Dinamo Kiev players, and Flakelf, a Luftwaffe team, has become a symbol of resistance. The hosts discuss the brutal context of the occupation, the complex legacies of the players, and the role football played in these extraordinary historical circumstances. Jonathan Wilson critically examines how much of the narrative is based on verifiable facts and how much may have been post-war Soviet propaganda. This episode provides a nuanced understanding of how football intersected with geopolitics, resistance, and national identity during one of history's darkest periods. 00:00 Introduction to the Death Match Series 01:27 Historical Context: Nazi Occupation and Football 02:26 The Rise of Team Start 03:07 Early Matches and Growing Tensions 04:21 Embarrassing Defeats for Axis Teams 05:28 Public Perception and Propaganda 06:29 The Turning Point: German Concerns 14:13 The First Clash with Flakelf 18:05 Setting the Stage for the Death Match 26:06 The Referee's Influence and Game Dynamics 27:10 Halftime Tensions and Orders to Lose 28:39 Second Half and Controversial Moments 32:35 Post-Match Arrests and Interrogations 35:50 Life in the Prison Camp 43:10 Escape and Kyiv's Liberation 44:33 Legacy and Mythology of the Death Match Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jul 22

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the harrowing tale of 'The Death Match,' a match played under Nazi occupation in Ukraine. They explore the brutal conditions faced by Ukrainian footballers, the formation of a remarkable team, and the resonances with modern-day conflicts. In Part One, learn how football resurfaced amidst atrocities, with bakery manager Yosyp Kordyk forming a team from former stars. The discussions cover the political intricacies and personal tragedies, setting the stage for the match itself. Join us for Part Two on Friday, where the details of the game itself and its far-reaching consequences are revealed. 00:00 Introduction to the Yard Brigade 00:26 Welcome to the Podcast 00:53 The Mythologized Football Match 02:44 Escape to Victory and Its Origins 04:16 Introducing Joseph Cordick 05:49 The Nazi Occupation of Kiev 07:37 The Struggles of Mik Trivi 14:21 The Fall of Kiev and Its Aftermath 25:51 Ukrainian Nationalism and Football Under Nazi Occupation 27:34 The Horrors of Nazi Occupation in Kyiv 29:43 Football as a Means of Normalization 30:32 Resistance and Brutality in Kyiv 31:30 Formation of the Start Football Team 33:06 The Struggles and Symbolism of Playing Football 37:16 The First Match and Its Consequences 39:09 The Complexities of Resistance and Collaboration 49:14 The Aftermath and Public Perception 51:07 Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jul 18

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast hosted by Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson. Today we bring you the fascinating story of the El Dorado League in 1940s Colombia. Discover how the government, amid a brutal civil war and the assassination of liberal leader Jorge Eliécer Gaitán, turned to football to pacify an unsettled population. Learn about the league's extraordinary formation, iconic players like Alfredo Di Stefano and Adolfo Pedernera, and the league's ultimate collapse. Join us for an in-depth look at an astonishing chapter in football history and its lasting impact. 00:00 The Role of Football in Political Control 01:43 The Assassination of Jorge Eliécer Gaitán 03:33 The Aftermath and Civil Unrest 14:12 The Rise of the El Dorado League 22:51 The Impact of Global Events on Colombian Football 29:29 Player Transfers and Union Arguments 30:36 Colombian Football's Golden Era Begins 32:30 The Arrival of International Stars 34:59 Challenges and Discontent Among Players 38:32 The Decline of the El Dorado League 50:00 Political Turmoil and Football's Role 54:54 Legacy and Modern Parallels Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jul 15

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. After Chelsea's Club World Cup win at the weekend, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author Nick Purewal, who discusses his book Sanctioned: The Inside Story of the Sale of Chelsea FC about the sanctioning of Roman Abramovich and the sale of Chelsea FC. Here we give a unique insight into the unprecedented chaos surrounding Chelsea during their 2022 sale, including behind-the-scenes details of Abramovich's involvement in peace talks between Russia and Ukraine, a near-poisoning event, and the tumultuous sale process of the club that led to current owner Todd Boehly buying the club. 00:00 Introduction 04:51 Abramovich's Role and the War's Impact 07:35 The Rapid Downfall and Sanctions 16:04 Abramovich's Involvement in Peace Talks 19:28 The Poisoning Incident 26:10 Skepticism and Vindication 29:52 Legal Confusion and Government Challenges 31:47 Chelsea's Struggles Under Sanctions 35:23 The High-Stakes Sale Process 38:48 The Bidding War Heats Up 44:26 Jim Ratcliffe's Last-Minute Bid 50:10 The Aftermath and Reflections Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jul 11

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In a week where we marked our 100th episode, we bring you the quiz between our podcast It Was What It Was against Football Cliches. Without co-host Rob Draper, It Was What It Was brought in John Brewin alongside producer Pat Moore to join Jonathan Wilson in an epic battle against Football Cliches' Adam Hurrey, Charlie Eccleshare and David Walker. Three rounds, five questions in each round and a final round of Premier League hunting grounds, in a classic battle for the ages! If you enjoyed the podcast you can find Football Cliches episodes here: https://podfollow.com/new-football-cliches Please note: This episode was released by our opponents in February 2025. Please do review, comment and subscribe to It Was What It Was. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jul 8

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. To mark our 100th episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper revisit one of the game’s true pioneers: Herbert Chapman. Long before his Arsenal legacy, Chapman transformed Huddersfield Town in the 1920s, laying the groundwork for modern football and guiding them to become the first club to win three consecutive top-flight league titles. A century later, Jonathan and Rob delve into the tactical innovations, strategic thinking, and leadership that defined Chapman’s revolutionary approach. This episode brings Huddersfield’s golden era to life—and shows how Chapman’s influence still echoes through the game today, both on and off the pitch. 00:00 Introduction and Milestone Celebration 01:13 Herbert Chapman's Early Life and Career 03:31 Chapman's Tactical Innovations 11:19 Leeds City and Wartime Contributions 22:07 Post-War Challenges and Huddersfield Opportunity 27:44 Brighton's Replay and the Stuffed Donkey Incident 28:49 The Controversial FA Cup Final 30:33 Chapman's Tactical Innovations 34:00 Huddersfield's Rise to Glory 41:52 The Closest Title Race Ever? 46:32 Chapman's Legacy and Move to Arsenal 48:33 Conclusion and Reflections on Chapman's Impact Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jul 4

Welcome back to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. In the second and final episode of our exploration into Abu Dhabi's takeover of Manchester City, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper uncover the strategic, political, and historical forces behind one of the most transformative moves in modern football. Incorporating expert commentary from Dr. Chris Davison, author of Abu Dhabi: Oil and Beyond , this episode explores how a state-led investment in a football club became a powerful tool of international diplomacy. We trace the roots of Abu Dhabi’s global ambitions back to the oil boom of the 1970s and '80s, the legacy of Sheikh Zayed’s leadership, and the shifting political landscape following his death in 2004. We also examine the rise of Sheikh Mansour, the tightening grip of autocracy, and the human rights questions that shadow this high-stakes project. From geopolitics in the Arab world to influence across Africa and the Indian subcontinent. 00:00 Introduction 01:30 The Foundation of UAE and Its Growth 02:57 Sheikh Zayed's Vision and Leadership 05:24 The Role of Women and Modernisation 08:37 The Al Nahyan Family Dynamics 12:47 The Manchester City Takeover 15:39 The Impact and Strategy Behind the Takeover 22:41 The Strategic Importance of Qatar and Abu Dhabi 23:29 Human Rights Concerns in Abu Dhabi 28:52 Worker Rights and Personal Accounts 31:38 The Yemeni War and Foreign Policy 34:59 Manchester City's Aggressive Strategy 36:19 Comparing Strategies: Abu Dhabi vs. Qatar 44:23 The Future of Manchester City 46:29 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jul 1

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore the complex history behind the Abu Dhabi takeover of Manchester City. The discussion begins with a chilling recount of a 1984 assassination of UAE ambassador Khalifa Ahmad Mubarak, claimed by the Arab Revolutionary Brigades. This incident serves as a critical backdrop for understanding the motivations and geopolitical factors influencing contemporary Middle Eastern involvement in global sports. Jonathan and Rob look into the precarious position of Abu Dhabi, the history of the UAE's formation, and the significant figures like Khaldoon Al Barak and Sheikh Zed, shedding light on why Abu Dhabi has ventured into the world of football ownership and how this has reshaped not just Manchester City but football in general. Join us on Friday for Part Two. 00:00 Tragic Assassination in Paris 00:54 Introduction to the Podcast 01:03 The Abu Dhabi Takeover of Manchester City 03:21 Comparing Abramovich and Sheik Mansour 04:29 The Shock of the 2008 Takeover 05:09 The Initial Skepticism and Rabino Signing 07:21 The Role of Solomon Al Faim 09:26 The Importance of Kaldoon Al Mubarak 15:41 The Aggressive Approach to Regulation 22:34 Massacre at Saia and Its Impact 24:25 Khaldoon Al Mubarak's Background 27:19 Transformation of Abu Dhabi 32:23 Discovery of Oil and Its Implications 43:19 Formation of the United Arab Emirates 44:50 Challenges from Regional Powers 45:56 Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jun 27

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, Jonathan and Rob look into the tragic and fascinating latter years of Diego Maradona's professional football career during the 1990s. Jonathan and Rob explore Maradona's struggles with cocaine addiction, legal troubles, and numerous attempts to revive his career amidst a national crisis for Argentina's football team. From his return to his parents' hometown to his controversial time at the 1994 World Cup, follow Maradona's tumultuous journey as he battles to maintain his footballing legacy. Please rate, review, and recommend the podcast. 00:00 Introduction to Argentina's Turbulent Football History 00:33 Diego Maradona's Struggles and Return 01:09 Argentina's National Team Crisis 01:56 Maradona's Controversial Comeback 05:01 Challenges with Argentine Football Culture 10:38 Maradona's Legal and Personal Battles 16:56 Road to the 1994 World Cup 24:41 Maradona's Defense and Consequences 26:16 Public Reaction and Media Coverage 27:30 Argentinian Utopianism and Football 31:12 Maradona's Struggles and Ban 36:38 Attempted Comeback and Managerial Stints 38:16 Final Matches and Retirement 48:22 Legacy and Future Stories Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jun 24

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper bring a two-part special focussing on the decline of one of the greatest footballers ever, Diego Maradona. In part one, our co-hosts talk about Maradona's struggles with drug addiction, failed drug tests, and his eventual 15-month ban from football after a positive cocaine test in 1991. Despite these challenges, Maradona's impact on both the Napoli and Argentina national teams remained significant. Discover the infamous 5-0 defeat of Argentina by Colombia in 1993 and explore why the nation clamoured for Maradona's return to save their 1994 World Cup hopes. The episode provides a comprehensive look at Maradona's turbulent years leading up to his attempts at making a comeback. Join us on Friday for Part Two. 00:00 Introduction and Context 00:30 The Decline of Diego Maradona 02:01 The Infamous Argentina vs. Colombia Match 04:57 The Fallout and National Disgrace 10:48 Maradona's Cultural Significance 16:04 Maradona's Turbulent Life in Naples 23:51 Maradona's Decline and Struggles with Fitness 25:19 Cocaine Scandal and Legal Troubles 26:53 The Fake Penis Incident and Drug Test 30:53 Maradona's Radical Detox and Support System 34:17 Political Context and Maradona's Popularity 39:52 Return to Football and Move to Sevilla 44:04 Struggles in Sevilla and Final Decline 47:52 Personal Breakdown and Return to Roots Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jun 20

Welcome back to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. With the Club World Cup underway, we wrap up the week with Part Two of our Origin Story series, focusing on Manchester United’s chaotic 2000 Club World Cup campaign in Brazil. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper unpack United’s controversial decision to withdraw from the FA Cup, the disorganised nature of the tournament, and the fiery clash between European entitlement and South American intensity. Plus, we'll hear about the now-legendary story of Roy Keane, Teddy Sheringham, and Nicky Butt hang gliding over Rio - doing their best to stay out of sight of Sir Alex Ferguson! If you're enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! And don't forget to subscribe to our new show Stick to Cricket, wherever you get your podcasts! 00:00 English Expectations and Brazilian Strength 00:48 Introduction to the Double History Podcast 00:58 The Infamous 2000 Club World Cup 02:01 FIFA's Ambitions and the Club World Cup 03:36 The Controversial Decision: Manchester United's Dilemma 04:27 Global Participation and FIFA's Motivations 07:09 Political Pressures and England's World Cup Bid 22:09 Manchester United's PR Disaster in Brazil 25:18 The Tournament Begins: Double Header in Sao Paulo 26:17 The Shabby Stadium and Initial Matches 27:16 David Beckham's Red Card Incident 28:22 United's Aloof Image and Public Relations Disaster 29:26 Tournament Progress and Group Stage Results 30:07 Vasco's Dominance Over Manchester United 33:11 Gary Neville's Struggles and Team Support 38:37 United's PR Disaster in Rio 40:13 Impact on United's Season and Future Tournaments 42:06 Reflections on the Club World Cup 50:43 Concluding Thoughts and Farewell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jun 17

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, with the Club World Cup underway, Rob and Jonathan delve into its chaotic and often violent origins! They explore how the early intercontinental tournaments were organised, from the first attempts in the late 19th century to the ultimate establishment of the Toyota Cup. We'll hear about infamous clashes between Celtic and Racing Club, and Manchester United and Estudiantes. Join us for part two on Friday, where we continue the journey into the modern era of the tournament and discuss the controversial 32-team format in the USA. (Apologies for a few audio issues with Rob's mic this week!) 00:00 Introduction and Financial Woes 00:21 The Club World Cup: Origins and Early Years 01:31 Early International Competitions 03:59 The Quest for a World Champion 08:07 The First Recognized World Club Tournament 13:41 The Sir Thomas Lipton Trophy 16:50 The Copa Rio: A New Era 23:16 Controversial Withdrawal and Unsatisfactory Victory 23:37 Rebranding and Decline of the Tournament 24:02 Violence and Domestic Dominance 25:01 The Little World Cup in Venezuela 26:46 The International Soccer League in the US 28:47 European and South American Club Competitions 30:45 The Birth of the Intercontinental Cup 35:34 Violence and Controversy in the Intercontinental Cup 41:36 Decline of the Intercontinental Cup 44:06 The Toyota Cup Era 45:23 The Expanded Club World Cup 46:33 Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jun 13

Please note: Apologies for the audio issues in the first 10 minutes of the show. Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast, with co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson. Today we are joined by special guest David Owen, former sports editor of the Financial Times and author of multiple books on sports history. In this episode, the trio delves deep into the significant alteration of the offside rule on June 13, 1925, and how this monumental change impacted football. From the tactical transformations it spurred, like the introduction of the WM formation and the rise of the centre half role, to its broader effects on the game's entertainment value and popularity, the discussion covers it all. Join us as we explore one of the most pivotal adjustments in football history and its lasting legacy. 00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome 01:08 The 1925 Offside Rule Change 02:21 Historical Context of Offside Rule 02:55 Early 20th Century Offside Tactics 05:01 Impact of the 1925 Rule Change 12:27 Adaptations and Innovations 19:04 Immediate Effects in England 26:03 Notable Goal Scoring Feats 27:42 Astonishing Cup Run and Relegation Drama 29:05 Impact of the 1925 Offside Law Change 32:03 Defensive Strategies and Adaptations 34:15 Tactical Innovations and the WM Formation 42:04 Evolution of Player Roles and Transfer Market 53:32 Global Differences and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jun 10

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In today’s episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore one of the most powerful stories in football history: Zambia’s remarkable triumph at the 2012 Africa Cup of Nations. Jonathan, who covered the 2012 tournament on the ground, shares firsthand reflections of what he calls the most emotional press box moment he’s ever experienced. Nineteen years after a devastating plane crash claimed the lives of their national squad, Zambia rose from the ashes to claim continental glory. This episode retraces their journey - from the tragedy off the coast of Gabon in 1993, the rebuilding efforts led by legendary captain Kalusha Bwalya, right through to their unforgettable victory on penalties in the very same country that witnessed their darkest hour. 00:00 The Final Match: A Battle Beyond the Pitch 00:15 Introduction to an Inspiring and Tragic Football Story 00:36 Zambia's Uplifting Victory After Tragedy 02:26 The 1993 Plane Crash: A National Tragedy 04:37 Zambia's Football Rise in the Late 80s 08:15 The Aftermath of the Crash and the Struggle for Resources 18:42 Rebuilding the Team: The Role of Kaia and New Coaches 24:01 The 2012 African Cup of Nations Journey 25:06 The Quarterfinals and Beyond 27:01 Gabon vs. Mali: A Penalty Heartbreak 27:30 Unexpected Journey to Bata 31:12 Ghana's Complacency and Zambia's Rise 38:38 The Emotional Beach Ceremony 40:27 The Dramatic Final Against Ivory Coast 51:10 Zambia's Historic Victory 52:16 Reflecting on the Significance Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jun 6

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore the remarkable life and career of Luis Enrique, fresh off delivering Paris Saint-Germain’s first-ever Champions League title. From leading Barcelona to a historic treble in 2015 to now rewriting PSG's narrative in Europe, Enrique’s managerial legacy is already carved into footballing folklore. But behind the silverware lies a deeply personal story; one of resilience, heartbreak, and unshakable determination. In 2019, Enrique stepped away from football during his time as Spain’s national team coach after the tragic death of his 9-year-old daughter, Xana, who lost her battle with bone cancer. The podcast reflects on how he faced unimaginable grief and later returned to the sidelines with a renewed sense of focus, channeling his pain into purpose. We also explore the lesser-known side of Enrique — the ultramarathon runner, the iron-willed competitor, and the fitness fanatic who demanded relentless physical commitment from his players. His obsession with endurance has shaped not only the way his teams play but also the culture he instills: high pressing, relentless movement, and mental toughness. Where does Luis Enrique’s legacy stand now? From Gijón to Camp Nou to Paris, and from personal tragedy to professional triumph — this is a story of more than just football. It’s about the making of a modern great. 0:00 Introduction and Personal Reflection 00:32 Luis Enrique's Early Life and Background 04:15 Football Beginnings and Early Career 07:03 Transition to Real Madrid and Barcelona 16:06 International Career and Notable Incidents 22:52 Post-Playing Career and Coaching Beginnings 29:07 Luis Enrique's Coaching Journey 31:01 Barcelona's Missed Opportunity with Luis Enrique 32:36 Luis Enrique's Success at Celta Vigo 32:49 Barcelona's Second Chance with Luis Enrique 35:41 The Messi Conundrum 37:54 Luis Enrique's Triumphs and Challenges at Barcelona 44:53 The Tragic Loss of Luis Enrique's Daughter 47:15 Return to the Spanish National Team 52:26 Luis Enrique's Tenure at PSG 01:00:36 The Emotional Impact of Luis Enrique's Journey 01:02:41 Conclusion and Reflections Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jun 3

Welcome to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. This week, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore a landmark moment in the sport: Brazil, for the first time in its storied history, has appointed a sole foreign manager, Carlo Ancelotti. As he prepares to lead the Seleção in his first match on Friday against Ecuador, the episode unpacks the significance of his move to Brazil. They examine Ancelotti’s coaching philosophy, tracing its roots to his mentor Nils Liedholm and the enduring influence of Hungarian football. The conversation spans decades and continents—from the intellectual cafés of Budapest to the shifting tactical landscape of South America. Along the way, they reflect on the evolution of Brazilian coaching and the global reach of Hungarian tactical innovation. Join them for a compelling look at the past, present, and future of football strategy, and discover how Ancelotti’s arrival in Brazil could be a return to their roots. 00:00 Introduction and Personal Anecdotes 00:37 Historic Day for Brazil: Foreign Manager Appointed 01:15 Carlo Ancelotti's Coaching Philosophy 01:55 Brazil's Foreign Coaching History 04:56 The Dominance of Argentinian Coaches in South America 06:04 Brazilian Football's Tactical Evolution 10:30 Hungarian Influence on Brazilian Football 20:56 Brazil's World Cup Preparations and Challenges 26:13 Brazil's Struggles Against European Teams 27:49 Modern Era: Brazil's Coaching Crisis 29:11 Analysing the Decline of Brazilian Football 30:01 The Influence of European Coaching 30:22 The Role of Brazilian Midfielders 30:37 Recent Brazilian Coaches and Their Struggles 31:38 The Turning Point: Italy 1982 32:10 Introduction to Carlo Ancelotti's Appointment 32:49 Carlo Ancelotti's Mentorship and Legacy 35:27 The Hungarian Influence on Modern Football 38:33 The Swedish Connection and Coaching Philosophy 40:22 The Rise of IFK Norrköping 48:28 The Formation of the Gre-No-Li Trio 51:27 Carlo Ancelotti's Impact on Brazilian Football 55:12 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

May 30

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this episode, Jonathan and Rob explore the history of Paris Saint-Germain ahead of their Champions League final against Inter Milan. Join us as we uncover the intriguing journey of PSG - and their transformation from a club with little history to a European powerhouse. Rob and Jonathan explore the significant matches, the controversial ownership and the club's elusive quest for Champions League glory. For more build-up to the Champions League Final - listen to our episode on Inter Milan - The Birth of the Catenaccio - released earlier this week. 00:00 Introduction to the Football History Podcast 01:08 PSG's Humble Beginnings 02:59 The Formation of PSG 04:30 Challenges and Controversies 06:53 The Role of Media and Public Support 08:48 The Birth of Paris Saint-Germain 11:10 The Struggle for Identity 14:38 The Rise of PSG 20:12 Fashion and Football: The Daniel Hechter Era 25:27 Financial Misconduct in French Football 26:15 PSG's Rise in the 1980s 27:20 Early European Struggles 28:41 Financial Turmoil and Media Takeover 30:32 Golden Years and European Semi-Final Curse 33:31 Qatari Takeover and Controversies 41:45 Branding and Big Signings 46:31 Modern Challenges and Future Prospects 50:12 Conclusion and Champions League final thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

May 27

Welcome to this Champions League special episode of It Was What It Was with hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson. In this episode, they dive deep into the rich tactical history of Inter Milan, tracing the origins and impact of the famous Catenaccio system introduced by legendary coach Helenio Herrera in the 1960s. They explore Herrera's significant influence on modern football management, his controversial methods, and the eventual decline of his tactical system. Additionally, the hosts draw parallels between Herrera's era and Inter Milan's current approach under Simone Inzaghi, highlighting how historical tactics still resonate today as they face PSG in Join us at the end of the week as we turn our attention to PSG's history, as they look to win the Champions League for the first time. 00:00 Introduction 00:19 Champions League Special: Setting the Scene 00:34 Helena Herrera: The Tactical Genius 01:56 The Birth of Catenaccio 02:56 Karl Rappan and the Swiss Influence 08:43 Catenaccio's Evolution in Italy 13:31 The Rise of Inter Milan 19:02 Herrera's Early Career and Philosophy 27:31 Herrera's Impact at Barcelona 29:54 Transition to Inter Milan 30:07 Inter's Turbulent Coaching History 30:39 Helenio Herrera's Arrival and Impact 31:17 Herrera's Strict Regimen and Control 34:55 Tactical Innovations and Success 42:06 Controversies and Criticisms 49:31 The Decline of Herrera's Inter 56:50 Legacy and Modern Comparisons 01:02:19 Conclusion and Upcoming Content Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

May 23

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper focus on the 1984/85 season that changed English football, with Part One focussing on the numerous fan violence incidents then the tragedy of the Bradford fire as 56 fans lost their lives. Today, in part two, Tony Evans, former sports editor at The Times and author of 'Two Tribes' and 'Far Foreign Land' joins the show to talk about Heysel. In this episode, Tony Evans shares his harrowing experiences and poignant reflections on the Heysel Stadium disaster of 1985, when 39 football fans tragically lost their lives during the European Cup Final between Liverpool and Juventus. The discussion covers the chaotic events leading up to the disaster, the atmosphere in Brussels, and the aftermath, both immediate and long-term, for football and fan culture. Don't miss this in-depth exploration of one of the darkest days in football history. 00:00 Introducing the Podcast and Special Guest Tony Evans 02:15 Liverpool in 1985: A City and Club in Turmoil 02:30 The Violent Year: Football and Social Unrest 05:09 The Day of the Heysel Disaster: Personal Accounts 07:46 Chaos in Brussels: The Build-Up to Tragedy 16:57 The Collapse: Mismanagement and Miscommunication 27:45 The Aftermath: Reactions and Reflections 30:35 The Aftermath of the Tragedy 31:43 Personal Recollections and Impact 32:26 Documentary Insights and Victim Stories 34:56 Chaos and Confusion at the Stadium 38:25 The Decision to Continue the Game 49:08 Reflections on Fan Behaviour and Consequences 51:27 The Broader Context and Political Reactions 53:48 Long-term Changes in Football Culture 58:38 Concluding Thoughts on the Tragedy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

May 20

Welcome to It Was When It Was, the football history podcast. This week we're focussing on the 1984-85 footballing season - arguably the bleakest time in English football history - that changed the game forever. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper begin the first of two episodes covering the violence, tragedy, and upheaval of this period and the wider context of football hooliganism in the first half, whilst the second half of part one pays tribute to the horrific Bradford Fire that claimed 56 lives 40 years ago. Explore gripping firsthand accounts, the reactions of key figures, and the societal and institutional issues that plagued the sport, leading to safety measures and ultimately, a transformation in football culture. Join us on Friday as we are joined by Tony Evans to talk about the Heysel tragedy that happened at the end of May in 1985. 00:00 Introduction to the Podcast 01:09 Reflecting on the 1984-85 Season 02:47 The Bradford Fire Tragedy 04:00 Football's Decrepit Stadiums 06:31 Chelsea vs. Sunderland: Milk Cup Semi-Final Chaos 12:36 Luton vs. Millwall: FA Cup Violence 26:35 Birmingham vs. Leeds: Championship Decider Mayhem 29:10 Fans Fight Back and Prolonged Chaos 30:52 Medieval Fortress and Perimeter Fences 31:59 Racism and Aggression in Football Culture 33:15 Introduction to the Bradford Fire 35:04 The Start of the Fire and Initial Reactions 36:16 Rapid Escalation and Desperate Attempts to Escape 38:20 Heartbreaking Personal Accounts and Immediate Aftermath 47:16 Investigations and Controversies 50:57 Negligence and Legal Consequences 57:30 Broader Implications and Future Changes 59:24 Conclusion and Preview of Next Episode Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

May 16

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast! Join co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper as they welcome special guest Richard Hough, author of 'Verona Capone, the Miracle of 85'. In this episode, Richard delves into the extraordinary story of Hellas Verona's incredible 1984-85 Serie A title win. From the chaotic Italian football landscape of the 1980s, managerial masterstrokes, and key foreign signings, to the unforgettable moments and lasting impact on the city of Verona, this episode is a deep dive into one of football's most romantic underdog stories. Join us as we explore how a small provincial team conquered giants like AC Milan and Juventus to achieve an unexpected and historic league victory. 00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome 01:02 Setting the Scene: 1980s Italian Football 02:21 Verona's Rise to Glory 03:28 Economic and Social Context 05:08 Key Players and Strategic Moves 12:15 Tactical Insights and Coaching Philosophy 15:15 Foreign Players and Their Impact 22:55 The Perfect Season Opener 25:04 The Opening Goal and Season Kickoff 25:29 Verona's Iconic Moments and Key Players 30:05 The Turning Point in the Season 33:01 The Final Stretch to the Title 40:42 Celebrations and Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

May 13

Welcome back to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. It’s FA Cup final week, with Manchester City set to take on Crystal Palace at Wembley. In this episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper revisit the dramatic story of Palace’s remarkable run to the 1990 FA Cup Final. Just months after a crushing 9-0 defeat to Liverpool, Crystal Palace stunned the same side in a sensational 4-3 semi-final — a match still regarded as one of the greatest in FA Cup history. That victory set up a final against Sir Alex Ferguson’s Manchester United, who, at the time, were still chasing their first trophy under his management. Today, we delve into where Crystal Palace stood as a club in 1990, explore their tactical shifts, highlight standout performances — especially the impact of Ian Wright — and examine Manchester United’s situation under Ferguson, including the pivotal moments that led to his first silverware with the club. We also examine whether Palace could shock Manchester City and finally win the FA Cup for the first time in their history. Chapters 00:00 Introduction 02:23 Crystal Palace's Journey to the Semis 03:37 Televised Semifinals and Hillsborough's Impact 11:55 Crystal Palace's Tactical Shift 15:17 The Dramatic Semifinal Match 20:39 Crystal Palace's Historic FA Cup Final 21:06 Manchester United's Journey to the 1990 FA Cup Final 25:55 Ian Wright's Miraculous Comeback 28:35 The Replay and Ferguson's First Trophy 31:56 Comparing Crystal Palace Eras 36:05 Can Crystal Palace Upset Manchester City? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

May 9

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In today's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper look back on the rich history of Goodison Park, Everton's storied home ground, as it approaches its final days. From setting the history into the building of the iconic stadium to picking out unforgettable matches to legendary players, relive iconic moments such as Dixie Dean's record-setting 60 goals in one season, Eusebio's praise at the 1966 World Cup, the famous 1994 relegation battle against Wimbledon and Wayne Rooney's spectacular goal against Arsenal. Join us as we celebrate the legacy of one of England's most beloved football stadiums. What's your favourite Goodison Park memory? Get in touch on @ItWasPod on X. Please don't forget to leave a review and recommend to your friends! 00:00 Introduction and Opening Remarks 00:33 The Significance of Goodison Park 01:44 Architectural and Historical Insights 04:32 Memorable Matches and Moments 07:11 Archibald Leitch's Legacy 26:15 Everton's last day survival in 1994 and Match-Fixing Scandal 29:33 The1966 World Cup 40:34 Dixie Dean's 60th Goal of the season 47:27 Wayne Rooney's Stunning Debut Goal 49:44 Farewell to Goodison Park Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

May 6

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper speak of the remarkable journey of Harry Kane, who recently clinched the Bundesliga title with Bayern Munich; the first trophy in his career. Recounting his early days at Arsenal youth, to multiple rejections, and loan spells that nearly derailed his career, the episode highlights Kane’s undeterred determination and resilience. Discover how pivotal moments and key influences, such as Mauricio Pochettino and a documentary on Tom Brady, transformed him into one of football’s greatest strikers. We end with a quiz, as Rob tests Jonathan's knowledge of British and Irish players who won major league titles abroad! 00:00 Introduction: A Childhood Memory 00:35 The Arsenal Release: A Turning Point 00:43 Celebrating Harry Kane's Achievements 01:02 The Early Struggles and Resilience 02:36 Harry Kane's Background and Family 03:06 Youth Football Journey 05:38 Challenges and Determination 14:27 Loan Spells and Growth 18:40 Millwall Experience and Growing Up 21:34 Norwich Loan: A Tough Period 27:16 Unexpected Laughter and Player Comparisons 28:02 Struggles at Leicester City 29:36 Turning Point: The Tom Brady Inspiration 31:13 Breakthrough Under Sherwood 32:33 Skepticism and Early Success 35:04 Pochettino's Influence and Physical Transformation 38:36 Near Misses and Final Disappointments 43:12 Legacy and Comparisons with Other Greats 47:43 Quiz on British and Irish Players Abroad 52:59 Conclusion and Reflections on Harry Kane's Career Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

May 2

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week’s episode, we turn our attention to Liverpool’s extraordinary journey through their history, culminating in Arne Slot’s Premier League title-winning side. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper trace the club’s legacy from its early 20th-century triumphs to modern-day glory. They explore the tactical revolutions under legendary managers like Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley, the brilliance of iconic players in Kenny Dalglish and Ian Rush, and the resurgence under Jürgen Klopp. The episode also highlights how Arne Slot has carried that legacy forward, building on the foundations laid by his predecessors. Where does the 2024/25 Liverpool title winners rank amongst the club's greatest ever teams? Get in touch with @ItWasPod on X to let us know! 00:00 Introduction to Liverpool's Journey 01:42 Early Liverpool Champions: 1901-1923 02:42 The Impact of Tom Watson 06:24 Liverpool's Defensive Strengths 07:46 Post-War Liverpool: Nutrition and Success 08:46 The Rise of Billy Liddell 10:17 Jack Balmer's Unlikely Heroics 15:20 Liverpool's First Five Titles 16:34 Bill Shankly's Legacy 20:55 Bob Paisley's Tactical Brilliance 26:18 Liverpool's Dominance in the Late 70s 27:12 Liverpool's Dominant Back Four 27:52 Dalglish vs. Keegan: Who's Better? 29:08 The Greatest Liverpool Side of All Time? 29:54 European Cup Draw and Unfortunate Knockout 33:29 Transition to the Kenny Dalglish Era 37:53 Impact of Hillsborough and the 1989 Season 41:55 Liverpool's Modern Era and Klopp's Influence 46:46 Future Prospects and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Apr 29

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Liverpool wrapped up their 20th English league title at the weekend, so today co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper focus on the fascinating career of manager Arne Slot who has won the Premier League at his first attempt at Anfield. Beginning with his unique upbringing in a football-centric Dutch Bible Belt town, we explore how watching his father coach from a young age shaped Slot's tactical mind, travel through his early playing days, his reputation as a tactician, and his impressive managerial stints that led him to win the Eredivisie with Feyenoord and now the Premier League with Liverpool. On Friday, Jonathan and Rob will assess where Slot's Liverpool title winners sit in Liverpool's glorious history. 00:00 Introduction: A Coach's Son 00:40 Early Life and Background of Arne Slot 01:26 The Dutch Football Culture 03:01 Influence of Johan Cruyff and Total Football 05:02 Arne Slot's Youth and Early Football Education 07:11 Professional Career Beginnings 13:40 Tactical Innovations and Coaching Philosophy 21:58 The Early Coaching Journey of Arne Slot 23:14 Challenges and Successes at Cambuur 25:56 Influence of Pep Guardiola and Data Analytics 29:10 Rise at AZ Alkmaar 34:43 Success at Feyenoord and Coaching Style 43:45 Legacy and Future Prospects Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Apr 25

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. It's time for Part Two of Pep vs Jose! As Barcelona and Inter prepare to face off once again in this year’s Champions League semi-final, we look back at the original - a tie that shaped modern football. Guardiola vs Mourinho. All-out attack vs. tactical defiance. Ideology, rivalry - maybe even good vs. evil? Fifteen years ago, Pep’s all-conquering Barcelona met Jose's Inter Milan in a Champions League semi-final that didn’t just decide who reached the final - it helped define a footballing era. Having set the scene in part one, Rob and Jonathan relive the incredible semi-final battles, where Mourinho would ultimately dethrone Guardiola in an incredible second-leg at the Nou Camp - which saw a controversial sending off, late drama and an iconic pitch celebration. If you enjoyed the podcast please subscribe and rate. 00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene 00:45 The Clash of Philosophies: Mourinho vs. Guardiola 01:32 The Tactical Battle Begins 04:32 The Volcano Eruption and Its Impact 10:24 First Leg Highlights and Analysis 13:18 Ibrahimović's Conflict and Mourinho's Mind Games 18:06 The Build-Up to the Second Leg 25:23 The Myth of the Decision 25:41 The Controversial Red Card 26:54 Conspiracy Theories and Psychological Influence 27:52 The Clash of Good vs. Evil 28:34 Tactical Fouling and Pep's Cynical Side 29:59 Marina's Critique of Barcelona's Tactics 31:37 Inter's Defensive Masterclass 34:13 The Struggle Against Possession Football 36:38 The Final Moments and Disallowed Goal 40:03 Marino's Triumphant Celebration 43:16 The Aftermath and Legacy 46:43 The Tactical Evolution in Football 48:58 The Importance of Non-Possession Football 50:28 Conclusion and Reflections Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Apr 22

Welcome to It Was What It Was. As Barcelona and Inter prepare to face off once again in this year’s Champions League semi-final, we look back at the original - a tie that shaped modern football. Pep Guardiola vs. José Mourinho. All-out attack vs. tactical defiance. Ideology, rivalry - maybe even good vs. evil? Fifteen years ago, Pep’s all-conquering Barcelona met Mourinho’s Inter Milan in a Champions League semi-final that didn’t just decide who reached the final - it helped define a footballing era. In Part One, Rob and Jonathan set the scene: how Mourinho’s Inter came to challenge the most dominant team in the world, the tactics he used, the battles he fought in Italy, and how both sides arrived at this collision point chasing domestic and European glory. Part Two drops Friday, where Rob and Jonathan break down the epic semi-final itself. 00:00 Barcelona's Football Perfection 01:48 Mourinho vs. Guardiola: A Rivalry Begins 02:47 The Dark Side of Mourinho 03:25 Star Wars Analogies and Football Tactics 06:53 Mourinho's Seven-Point Plan 07:45 Mourinho's Philosophy and Evolution 08:43 Mourinho's Journey to Inter Milan 09:58 Cultural Expectations and Pragmatic Football 12:23 Mourinho's Press Conference Antics 13:44 Mourinho's Linguistic Brilliance 14:49 Mourinho's Training Philosophy 20:04 Key Matches and Tactical Shifts 21:16 Mourinho's First Season at Inter 22:27 Transfer Drama: Stars on the Move 23:51 Barcelona's Dominance and Challenges 26:40 Inter's Journey to the Semifinals 28:57 Mourinho's Tactical Mastery 32:29 Controversies and Confrontations 40:24 The Road to the Semifinals 43:57 Setting the Stage for the Epic Semifinal Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Apr 18

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. It's time for part two of our look at the unexpected role a horse would play in the controversial takeover of Manchester United by the Glazer family. The episode covers the period of the Glazer acquisition, the impact of their ownership, and the financial manoeuvres that transformed the club. From Alex Ferguson's complicated relationship with the Glazers to the missed opportunities and recruitment challenges that followed, this episode gives an in-depth look at how Manchester United's fate was sealed - and the horse that might have started it all! 00:00 The Decline of Manchester United: A 20-Year Journey 00:20 Introduction to the Football History Podcast 00:48 The Gibraltar Incident and Its Fallout 01:26 The Glazers' Takeover: A Turning Point 02:24 The Financial Strategy of the Glazers 02:54 The Early Signs of Trouble 03:58 The Glazers' Background and Business Practices 04:48 The Impact of Global Capital on Football 06:24 The Glazers' Vision and Strategy 08:43 The Financial Mechanics of the Takeover 10:41 The Role of Debt in Modern Football 11:54 The Glazers' Financial Maneuvering 14:32 The Aftermath and Long-Term Consequences 16:15 The Glazers' Legacy and Future Implications 18:26 The Financial Crisis and Its Impact on Football 20:57 The Leveraged Buyout Explained 22:52 The Final Stages of the Takeover 30:47 The Glazer Takeover and Initial Success 31:17 Fan Protests and Opposition 34:52 Financial Strain and Missed Opportunities 37:32 The Role of Ed Woodward 43:18 Transfer Market Failures 46:15 Managerial Missteps 53:37 The Glazers' Disconnect and Conclusion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Apr 15

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In today's episode, hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by journalist David Walsh to explore how the modern fortunes of Manchester United are intertwined with one of the greatest racehorses in history. This is the extraordinary story of Rock of Gibraltar, the famed racehorse part-owned by Sir Alex Ferguson - and how his connections and relationships with John Magnier, and JP McManus would ultimately impact the Glazers' takeover of Manchester United. David Walsh shares insider details from his investigative work on the story, making this one of the most fascinating sports sagas of recent times. Tune in on Friday for part two, and the implications of the Glazers' takeover - and Manchester United's decline. 00:00 The Tale of the Lost Kingdom 00:25 Introduction to the Podcast and Special Guest 00:35 The Story of Rock of Gibraltar 01:25 David Walsh's Insights 02:28 The Connection Between Sir Alex Ferguson and John Magner 07:36 The Rise of Rock of Gibraltar 17:21 The Dispute Over Ownership 19:26 The Financial Implications 29:04 Ownership Dispute and Legal Battle 29:52 High Court Drama and Stakeholder Tensions 30:50 Public Fallout and Media Frenzy 34:02 Settlement and Aftermath 38:39 The Glazers' Takeover 41:35 Reflecting on Missed Opportunities 49:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Apr 11

Welcome to It Was What It Was for part two of our interview with Brendan Batson, a trailblazer in English football. Brendon tells Jonathan and Rob about his impactful time at West Bromwich Albion as part of the iconic 'Three Degrees' with Cyrille Regis and Laurie Cunningham. We discuss his teammates, the tragic losses and his work to combat racism. Brendon also gives us an insight into the personal impact of his former manager Ron Atkinson's notorious comments on live television. 00:00 Introduction and Overview 01:07 Brendan Batson's Early Career and Challenges 03:00 The China Tour Experience 06:20 The Three Degrees Phenomenon 12:32 Impact and Legacy of Black Players 18:37 Knee Injury and Career Transition 20:10 Coaching Courses and Philosophies 24:24 The Evolution of a Coaching Philosophy 24:42 The One-Size-Fits-All Approach 25:50 Player Welfare and Career Transitions 27:59 Tragic Losses and Their Impact 28:38 The Legacy of Laurie Cunningham 32:33 Racism in Football: A Personal Betrayal 38:20 The Complexity of Racism in Football 41:21 The Fight Against Racism: Past and Present 46:17 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Apr 8

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. This week Jonathan and Rob welcome special guest Brendan Batson, a former Arsenal, Cambridge, and West Brom player - who made a significant impact on British social and footballing history. Part one focuses on Batson's early life in Grenada and Trinidad, his challenges adapting to the British climate in the 1960s, and becoming Arsenal's first black player. Join us for part two on Friday where Brendan recalls his time at West Brom - and the birth of the famous 'Three Degrees'. 00:00 Introduction and Special Guest Announcement 01:21 Brendan Batson's Early Life and Migration to England 03:18 Adapting to Life in England and Discovering Football 06:34 Challenges and Racism in Early Years 11:48 The Windrush Generation and Social Context 14:48 Racism in Football and the National Front 19:13 Conclusion of Part One 20:00 Scouted by Arsenal: The Beginning of a Football Journey 21:23 Challenges and Triumphs: Early Arsenal Days 22:38 Facing Racism: The Harsh Realities of the 60s and 70s 25:06 Breaking Barriers: Becoming Arsenal's First Black Player 27:44 Struggles with Racism on the Field 31:36 Guidance and Growth: Learning to Cope 34:32 Career Progression: From Arsenal to Cambridge and Beyond 36:33 Ron Atkinson's Influence: A Turning Point 37:41 Conclusion: Reflecting on a Pioneering Career Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Apr 4

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, and part two of our look at Cameroon’s extraordinary journey at the 1990 World Cup. With their stunning opening victory against defending champions Argentina and making history as the first African team to reach the quarter-finals, Cameroon’s story is one of resilience, brilliance, and pure football magic. Facing England in a gripping quarter-final showdown against stars like Paul Gascoigne and Gary Lineker, the Indomitable Lions captivated the world in one of the World Cup’s greatest underdog stories. If you enjoyed the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. 00:00 Introduction and Initial Setup 00:19 Chaos and Preparation for the World Cup 01:25 Cameroon's Opening Game Against Argentina 02:45 Diego Maradona's Challenges 04:56 Cameroon's Tactical Adjustments 07:35 FIFA's New Rules and Refereeing Challenges 11:35 Cameroon's Historic Victory Over Argentina 15:04 Advancing Through the Group Stage 20:41 Facing Colombia in the Knockout Stage 23:39 Cliffhanger: Preparing to Face England 24:32 England's Quarter-Final Prospects 25:25 Scouting Cameroon: Underestimations and Realities 27:32 Tunnel Tensions and Early Game Dynamics 29:37 Cameroon's Tactical Surprises 33:46 England's Tactical Adjustments 40:54 Cameroon's Legacy and African Football Challenges 50:07 Concluding Thoughts on Cameroon 1990 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Apr 1

This week on It Was What It Was, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson look back at one of the most iconic footballing stories of all time: Cameroon’s 1990 World Cup. Jonathan and Rob look at the chaotic preparations behind Cameroon's campaign, discussing last-minute squad upheaval, internal conflicts between teammates, and the unexpected recall of a man who would become a legend: Roger Milla. In the build up to the tournament's opening game against defending champions Argentina, there were turbulent training camps, political interferences, and a complete lack of confidence in the squad. That would all change in the summer to come... Join us on Friday for Part Two. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. 00:00 Pre-Game Nerves and Disorganization 01:02 Introduction to the 1990 Cameroon Team 01:25 Historical Context of African Teams in the World Cup 02:26 The Dramatic Campaign of Cameroon 1990 04:40 The Goalkeeper Dilemma 07:25 African Football's Struggles and Triumphs 14:37 Colonial Impact on African Football 17:44 Cameroon's Chaotic Road to the World Cup 24:09 African Players in European Football 24:58 Cameroon's Discontent in the 1990s 26:02 The Build-Up to the 1990 World Cup 31:43 Roger Milla's Unexpected Return 40:07 Goalkeeper Rivalries and Team Dynamics 43:33 Pre-Match Chaos and Last-Minute Changes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mar 28

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author James Montague to discuss his new book 'Engulfed' - exploring Saudi Arabia's massive investments in sport. James gives unique insights on the history of Saudi football, the Vision 2030 project, and how Newcastle United's takeover fits into the larger picture. You'll find out how strategic use of 'soft power' has transformed Saudi Arabia's global image through sport. The trio examine the rich football culture in Saudi Arabia, the country's evolving social landscape, and the geopolitics influencing these changes. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. 00:00 Introduction 00:17 James Montague's Early Works and Reviews 01:28 Re-release and Sequel: Engulfed 01:59 Saudi Arabia's Emergence in Sports 03:26 Sports Washing and Soft Power 06:47 Historical Context and Saudi Investments 11:10 Mohammad bin Salman's Rise to Power 23:57 The Khashoggi Incident and Its Aftermath 30:13 Saudi Arabia's Football Culture 31:24 Challenges of Covering Saudi Arabia 33:52 Women in Saudi Football 35:15 Jimmy Hill's Influence on Saudi Football 40:33 David Icke's Saudi Adventure 46:10 Vision 2030 and Saudi Football Investments 52:26 Neom's Football Ambitions 57:34 Conclusion and Book Promotion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mar 26

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. It's the final installment of our three-part series exploring the rise and fall of the American Soccer League. Jonathan and Rob dive into internal conflicts within the ASL, the 1929 Wall Street crash, and how its devastating effects exposed the vulnerabilities of the fledgling league. But all is not lost - with another significant attempt to establish professional soccer in the U.S.... If you’re enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. 00:00 Introduction to the Series and Bela Gutmann's Influence 01:13 The Rise of the American Soccer League (ASL) 01:51 Innovations and Controversies in American Soccer 06:23 Financial Growth and International Tensions 08:17 The Playoff System and League Complications 10:53 The Struggles of Smaller Franchises 15:06 The Breakaway and Formation of the Eastern Soccer League 17:31 Chaos and Competition Between Leagues 22:24 The Soccer War and Its Impact 23:57 The Decline of the American Soccer League 25:27 The Wall Street Crash and Its Consequences 27:20 The Struggles of Key Figures and Teams 29:36 The Final Collapse of the ASL 34:25 Analysing the Failure of Soccer in the US 38:08 Comparing US and European Sports Models 45:36 The Future of Soccer in the US 49:17 Conclusion and What's Next Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mar 21

In today's It Was What It Was , Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson continue to explore the fascinating story of soccer in the United States. Highlighting the pivotal role of immigrant communities in the sport's development, the episode also examines key figures like Bela Gutmann and the significant tours by foreign teams that attracted huge crowds. Join us for the conclusion of this three-part series on Tuesday. 00:00 Introduction to Bela Gutmann's New York Era 00:51 The Pre-History of American Soccer 01:36 Challenges in Establishing Soccer in the U.S. 02:26 The First Professional Soccer League 04:24 Financial Struggles and League Dynamics 07:16 Formation and Early Years of the American Soccer League 20:53 Innovations and Comparisons with Other Sports 24:19 College Football's Dominance and Soccer's Struggles 25:39 The Role of Universities in American Sports 26:14 Challenges in Early American Soccer 26:53 The Rise of the New York Giants 27:44 Fall River Marksmen's Dominance 28:25 Economic Struggles and Soccer's Impact 29:29 The League's Early Successes and Challenges 30:14 Expansion and New Teams 31:13 Player Transfers and Immigration Issues 33:19 The American Menace and Scottish Football 34:49 International Influence and Jewish Tours 41:07 The Impact of Jewish Players and Fans 44:23 The Maccabees and Tactical Evolution 47:49 The League's Growing Popularity and Issues 50:32 Concluding Thoughts and Future Outlook Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mar 18

In this episode of It Was What It Was , Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson dive into the early history of soccer in the United States. They look at efforts to establish professional leagues, the influence of immigrant communities, and the geographic and cultural factors that made it difficult for football to gain a foothold - compared to rival American sports. This episode is the first of a three-part series. Join us on Friday as the story continues! If you’re enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Chapters: 00:00 Introduction to American Soccer 01:08 Early History of Soccer in the USA 02:00 Challenges and Attempts to Establish Soccer 02:38 Soccer's Struggle for Popularity 06:06 The Role of Universities in American Football 17:16 Immigrant Influence on American Soccer 17:43 Regional Hotbeds of Soccer 24:18 Formation of Early Soccer Leagues 27:43 The Rise of Fall River and Early American Football 28:31 Economic Challenges and League Suspensions 29:18 Comparing Football Cultures: UK vs. US 33:11 Baseball's Influence on Early American Soccer 38:53 The Birth of the US Football Association 41:36 Challenges and Growth of Early US Soccer 46:52 Bethlehem Steel and the Industrial Influence 51:01 The Challenge Cup and Regional Rivalries 52:09 Concluding Thoughts and Future Prospects Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mar 14

Welcome back to It Was What It Was . Rob and Jonathan are joined by David Corner - the man whose life was changed forever by the 1985 League Cup Final between Sunderland and Norwich. That match is remembered for a costly mistake that led to Sunderland’s defeat - a moment that saw David singled out, subjected to intense criticism and even physical abuse from his own fans. David shares his story with Jonathan and Rob, reflecting on how that experience shaped his life, the challenges he faced in the aftermath, and how he found the strength to move forward. If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mar 11

Welcome back to It Was What It Was . With Liverpool and Newcastle set to battle for the first major trophy of the English domestic season on Sunday, we’re taking a journey through some of the greatest League Cup finals of all time. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper each share three of their favourite finals - games filled with drama, controversy, and unforgettable moments that have defined the competition. Have we missed any of your favourites? Get in touch with @ItWasPod On Friday we have a special episode featuring David Corner, reflecting on Sunderland’s heartbreaking defeat in 1985. If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mar 7

Welcome back to It Was What It Was . Mikel Arteta’s transformation of Arsenal, Unai Emery’s tactical mastery, Xabi Alonso’s meteoric rise at Bayer Leverkusen, and Andoni Iraola’s fearless pressing at AFC Bournemouth all highlight a remarkable trend: A new wave of coaches shaping the modern game, many of them from the Basque Country. But why does this small region produce so many elite managers? Is it the coaching philosophy, the deep footballing culture, or something ingrained in the Basque identity? This is the story of how a new generation of Basque coaches are redefining football. If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mar 4

Welcome back to It Was What It Was . This week - we discuss the rise of Basque coaching. But we begin not in Bilbao or San Sebastián, but with a Catalan: Pep Guardiola. After revolutionising football with Barcelona, dominating in Germany with Bayern, and redefining the Premier League with Manchester City, Guardiola has become the defining coach of his era. But after a turbulent season at City, questions are emerging: Is this the beginning of the end for his football? Have opponents finally caught up with his ideas? Or does he have another reinvention left? This is the story of how Guardiola reshaped the modern game—and what comes next. Part two, on the Basque coaching revolution, will be released on Friday. If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Feb 28

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. This is the story of a new dawn - where one national team took full control of their destiny, cementing a legacy that continues to shape football today. Following their World Cup triumph (in our last part), the U.S. Women's side entered a new era of independence and power - and with it came major shifts. Coach Tony DiCicco became a casualty of the team’s growing influence, making way for fresh leadership and a transformed vision. But tensions were surfacing behind the scenes, with a showdown between star player Brandi Chastain and new coach April Heinrichs... If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Feb 25

Welcome back to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. . Approaching the end of the millennium, the U.S. women’s national team had already won a World Cup and Olympic gold, but they were still fighting for mainstream recognition. That all changed when they took centre stage at the 1999 Women’s World Cup. With 90,000 fans packing the Rose Bowl and millions watching around the world, the final against China became a defining moment - not just for the U.S. team, but for women’s football as a whole. Brandi Chastain’s iconic penalty, the sold-out stadiums, and the sheer spectacle of the tournament proved that women’s football wasn’t just growing - it had arrived. This is the story of how the 1999 World Cup reshaped the sport forever. If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Feb 21

Welcome back to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. . Despite not playing their first professional match until 1985, the U.S. Women won the inaugural World Cup in 1991. But even as champions, they faced inequality—most notably at the 1996 Olympics, where they were only promised pay if they won gold, while the men earned bonuses for any medal. Tennis icon Billie Jean King stepped in to fight for change. This is the story of how the U.S. women’s team fought for more than just trophies. Part two, covering the iconic 1999 Women’s World Cup, is released on Tuesday. And if you missed our intro episode with USA legend Carli Lloyd earlier this week, go back and check it out. If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Feb 18

Welcome back to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. In our new mini-series, we begin the journey of how women’s football in the U.S. rose to global dominance. And who better to start with than Carli Lloyd - one of the game’s greatest competitors and a key figure in that evolution? From the early struggles for recognition to back-to-back World Cup triumphs, Lloyd’s career mirrors the relentless fight for respect and progress in the women’s game. She takes us inside the mindset that made her a two-time World Cup winner, an Olympic gold medallist, and the architect of one of the most iconic performances in women’s football history - her stunning hat-trick in the 2015 World Cup final. Thank you for joining us. If you enjoy the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Feb 14

Welcome back to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. In this final chapter of our series, we complete the journey that began with Gary Neville reflecting on the legacy of the Busby Babes. We explored who they were before the 1958 Munich Air Disaster, the tragic day itself, and now, we turn to the aftermath: How Manchester United rose again. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take you through the incredible story of resilience and redemption. After recovering from his own life-threatening injuries, Sir Matt Busby rebuilt his beloved club, guiding them from devastation to glory. With the emergence of new stars like George Best and the leadership of Bobby Charlton, United’s revival culminated in their crowning moment in 1968, when they became the first English club to lift the European Cup - just a decade after their darkest day. Thank you for joining us. If you’ve enjoyed the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Feb 11

Welcome back to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. In last week’s episode, we told the story of the rise of the Busby Babes, their brilliance, and their final match before tragedy struck. Today, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take you through the darkest day in Manchester United’s history: 6 February 1958. At Munich-Riem Airport, United’s flight stopped to refuel on its way home from Belgrade. After two failed take-off attempts, the third ended in disaster. The crash claimed 23 lives, including eight of Manchester United’s finest players. Duncan Edwards fought for survival but died 15 days later. Manager Sir Matt Busby was left critically injured - the club’s future uncertain. In this episode, Jonathan and Rob reconstruct the events of that fateful day - and explore the immediate aftermath; the heartbreak, the shock, and how Manchester United Football Club somehow carried on. On Friday, we will have the final part: How Sir Matt Busby’s Manchester United rose again. If you’re enjoying the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Thank you for listening. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Feb 7

Welcome back to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. Following Gary Neville’s tribute to the triumph and tragedy of the Busby Babes on the anniversary week of the Munich Air Disaster, we begin a three-part series on how the tragedy shaped the future of Manchester United. In Part One, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore who the Busby Babes were, how the term came to be, and how Sir Matt Busby built his legendary team. They discuss the club’s pioneering youth system, Bobby Charlton’s journey to becoming a United supporter, and the importance of developing young talent. Among them was Duncan Edwards, regarded as one of England’s greatest footballers at the time, whose life was tragically cut short in 1958. The episode closes with the team’s final match before the fateful Munich Air Disaster. Next week, It Was What It Was presents a special episode focusing on the Munich Air Disaster, its immediate aftermath, and how Matt Busby’s rebuilt side laid the foundation for the Manchester United we know today. If you're enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Feb 4

Welcome back to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. This week former Manchester United captain Gary Neville joins us to look back on one of the most momentous and tragic events in football history: The Munich air disaster of 1958. Neville discusses the lasting significance of the tragedy - and how Sir Matt Busby rebuilt the club, leading them to European Cup glory just a decade after its darkest day. Gary shares stories with Jonathan and Rob - including how he was raised to honour the Busby Babes as a young fan and as a player - and how their legacy helped shape the modern Manchester United. Later this week, we’ll bring you the first instalment of our mini-series on the disaster, exploring who the Busby Babes were before that fateful night. If you're enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jan 31

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Austrian footballer Matthias Sindelar was one of the greats of the game but his mysterious death in 1939 at the age of just 35 became a hugely contested issue in the darkest era of Austrian history. Was he murdered because he objected to the Nazis? Did he chose to end his life unable to countenance living under Hitler? Or was he the victim of a tragic accident? And what role had his girlfriend Camilla Castagnola, found dead alongside him, played? Join Jonathan and Rob in the second and final part as they separate fact from fiction in the life of a lesser known great…. If you're enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jan 28

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Austrian footballer Matthias Sindelar was one of the greats of the game but his mysterious death in 1939 at the age of just 35 became a hugely contested issue in the darkest era of Austrian history. Was he murdered because he objected to the Nazis? Did he chose to end his life unable to countenance living under Hitler? Or was he the victim of a tragic accident? And what role had his girlfriend Camilla Castagnola, found dead alongside him, played? Join Jonathan and Rob as they separate fact from fiction in the life of a lesser known great…. Our finale is out on Friday! If you're enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jan 24

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. Jonathan and Rob continue exploring the extraordinary legacy of Bill Nicholson’s push and run game at Spurs and its relationship with Cruyff, Ajax, Barça and Total Football. In Part 4, Nicholson guides Spurs to the first league and cup double of the 20th century and Spurs become the first British club to win a European trophy. Don't forget to go back and listen to the rest of this series. Parts one and two feature Spurs royalty Steve Perryman! If you’re enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jan 21

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. Jonathan and Rob continue their dive into the career of Tottenham's legendary manager and one of the founding fathers of modern football: Bill Nicholson. Don't forget to go back and listen to parts one and two with special guest and Spurs royalty Steve Perryman! If you’re enjoying the It Was What It Was , please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jan 17

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. It's time for part two of Jonathan and Rob's chat with Spurs legend Steve Perryman about the club's legendary manager and one of the founding fathers of modern football: Bill Nicholson. Hear more from Steve as he tells us backstage stories and insights on Nicholson from the training ground, the dressing room and White Hart Lane. Don't forget to go back and listen to part one first if you missed it. If you’re enjoying the It Was What It Was , please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jan 14

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. This week, Jonathan and Rob are joined by Steve Perryman, Tottenham Hotspur’s record appearance holder, to talk about legendary Spurs manager Bill Nicholson. From transforming Spurs into serial winners - to hilarious changing room stories - Steve takes us behind the scenes of one of the most successful sides of the 20th century. Join us on Friday for Part Two! If you’re enjoying the It Was What It Was , please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jan 10

Welcome back to It Was What It Was - for Part Two of our look back at The FA Cup’s most memorable Third Round upsets! Jonathan and Rob return to tell the stories behind five more iconic moments from football's oldest cup competition - before the pair choose their ultimate Third Round shock. Please go back and listen to Part One if you missed it! If you’re enjoying the It Was What It Was , please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jan 7

Welcome back to It Was What It Was - where it's time to talk some of The FA Cup’s most memorable Third Round shocks! The FA Cup is synonymous with dreams and giant-killings, and nothing captures its essence better than the Third Round proper. Jonathan and Rob bring us their favourite ‘cupsets’ and the stories that have cemented them in FA Cup folklore. Don't forget to join us for Part Two on Friday! If you’re enjoying the It Was What It Was , please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jan 3

Welcome back to It Was What It Was and Happy New Year! In today’s episode, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson delve into the origins of VAR with author Daisy Christodoulou. Her latest book, I Can’t Stop Talking About VAR , discusses its profound impact on the sport, and whether it was designed to enhance football - or if football is now adapting to fit VAR. The evolution of football has never felt more immediate or impactful. If you’re enjoying the It Was What It Was , please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dec 31, 2024

New’s Eve Year 1991. Manchester United are on course to win the title for the first time since 1967. It’s Sir Alex Ferguson’s 50th birthday party, but it's a small, understated affair because United play QPR at Old Trafford the next day. A comfortable home win is expected for United to go top again - but it didn't work out that way... Join one of the stars of that game, Andy Sinton, to discuss what happened next, in perhaps the most famous New Year's Day game in modern English football. If you’re enjoying the It Was What It Was , please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dec 23, 2024

Christmas Eve, 1914. A cold, crisp, moonlit night in Flanders. British and German soldiers are dug into opposing trenches in a hellish shelled-out landscape, strewn with rotting corpses. But an unfamiliar sound is heard from the German trenches: “Stille Nacht, Heilige Nacht” is being sung to welcome the birth of Christ. The British respond with their own carols, seasonal greetings are exchanged across the trenches and troops tentatively move out into No Man’s Land. Gifts are exchanged, friends are made and then, allegedly, a football match ensued! Is this mythic tale - a staple of primary school history lessons - actually true? Or is it mere legend? Was any football really played? If so, is it perhaps the most significant match of all time? Rob and Jonathan reveal the true story behind what may be football’s finest moment. If you’re enjoying the It Was What It Was , please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dec 17, 2024

This week on It Was What It Was, it's the tale of Pickles: The most famous dog in football history. As most football fans know, Pickles saved the day by finding the Jules Rimet trophy - the original World Cup - after it had farcically been stolen from a stamp collection exhibition in the run up to the 1966 World Cup. But the whole story is even more surprising, more tragic and more comedic. And what came next for Pickles and the thief? Jonathan and Rob reveal all. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dec 10, 2024

This week on It Was What It Was , Jonathan and Rob introduce us to the team - and the match - that played a huge part in the invention of the European Cup... “Champions of the World!” was the headline given to Wolverhampton Wanderers, when they beat the mighty Hungarian team Honvéd, led by Ferenc Puskas, in 1954. Billy Wright was the star of the show for a game that many saw as reestablishing England as top football nation. But was it just gamesmanship that won the day for this great Wolves side? And how did that grandiose headline annoy the French so much it led to the formation of the European Cup (and consequently the Champions League) a year later? Wolves 3 Honvéd 2 is one of the most significant matches ever; a great night of European football that paved the way for so many historic moments in years to come. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dec 3, 2024

This week on It Was What It Was , we're looking at one of football's most remarkable underdog stories. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take us back to the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta, where Nigeria’s “Dream Team” shocked the world and won men's gold - the first African team to win a senior global football tournament. From Kanu’s heroics, to dramatic comeback victories over Brazil and Argentina, they explore how this historic triumph cemented African football on the global stage - and inspired a new generation of players. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nov 26, 2024

This week. It Was What It Was asks: What is it with Portuguese football? With Ruben Amorim arriving at Manchester United, there are now as many Premier League managers from Portugal as from England coaching this season. Portugal also has the fourth highest-quota of Premier League players (after England, Brazil and France). For a nation of just over 10 million, it consistently punches above its weight. Amorim’s rise to one of the biggest jobs in world football is located in the reform of Portuguese football in the 1980s - and specifically in the university faculty that helps turn out some of the world’s best coaches. Join Jonathan and Rob as we go back to school with Ruben Amorim, speaking to the mentors who forged him as a coach. It's a journey that takes in Jose Mourinho, Cristiano Ronaldo and super agent Jorge Mendes. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nov 21, 2024

Welcome to It Was What It Was, and Part Two of our special look back at the remarkable career of Rafa Benitez - with the man himself! In this second part - Rafa, Jonathan and Rob look back at Rafa's arrival at Anfield, his influence on the Premier League, and then head backstage to explain the moments and decisions behind that iconic Champions League triumph in Istanbul. Join us as Rafa takes us inside the moments that defined his legacy in England, and cemented his place in Liverpool folklore. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nov 19, 2024

In this special episode of It Was What It Was , Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by the legendary Rafa Benitez. Part One explores the early years of Rafa's extraordinary career, from his beginnings as a promising young coach in Spain to his groundbreaking success with Valencia. Rafa shares the stories, challenges, and philosophy that shaped his journey. Part One takes us up to his arrival in England - setting the stage for the Premier League's tactical transformation that Rafa would help to spearhead. Don’t miss this brilliant insight from one of football’s most renowned tacticians - and join us for Part Two on Thursday. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nov 12, 2024

In this week’s episode of It Was What It Was , Jonathan and Rob take a deep dive into the fascinating journey of Thomas Tuchel, the newly appointed England manager. From his early years as a player with a mature football mind, to a detour studying economics while working in a cocktail bar, Tuchel’s path to football’s elite has been anything but ordinary. Jonathan and Rob discuss how a timely call from Ralph Rangnick set Tuchel on a coaching trajectory that would see him manage some of Europe’s biggest clubs— Mainz, Dortmund, PSG, Chelsea, and Bayern Munich. They reflect on the highlights of his career, including his confidence that led Chelsea to a thrilling Champions League victory over Manchester City in 2021. Now, with Tuchel at the helm of the England national team, the duo explores what he brings to the international stage, how he might shape England’s future, and whether he can achieve the same success on the world stage that he did in club football. Join us for a compelling look at one of football’s most innovative managers, and what his unique journey could mean for the future of English football. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nov 5, 2024

In this week’s episode of It Was What It Was , Miguel Delaney discusses his new book: States of Play: How Sportswashing Took Over Football . Jonathan, Rob and Miguel assess how mega-rich investors and state-backed owners have transformed clubs and competitions around the world. The trio explain the impact of sportswashing on our modern game - where nations and corporations have used football to enhance their public image and gain global influence. Join us for a compelling insight into football's new landscape - and find out what the future could hold for clubs, players, and fans. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nov 1, 2024

In this bonus episode of It Was What It Was hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper look into the striking parallels between Manchester United’s managerial struggles in the post-Matt Busby and post-Sir Alex Ferguson eras. Despite decades of history and immense success, the club has faced a persistent challenge in finding a manager capable of replicating the legacy left by its legendary figures. Following the recent sacking of Erik Ten Hag, the arrival of Ruben Amorim has reignited the age-old debate about the club's direction and leadership. Wilson and Draper explore how the patterns of the past continue to haunt United, questioning whether Amorim will be the answer to the club’s woes or merely another chapter in a familiar narrative. Join us as we analyze the lessons learned (or not learned) from the club's history, the impact of managerial instability, and the pressing questions that linger: Can United break free from the cycle of déjà vu, or will history repeat itself once again? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oct 31, 2024

In Part Two of It Was What It Was , we dive into the explosive conclusion of the 1967 Intercontinental Cup clash between Celtic and Racing Club. With tempers flaring, the second and decisive third legs were anything but ordinary—featuring multiple send-offs, brutal fouls, and even a policeman with a drawn sword stepping onto the pitch. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper guide you through the chaos and controversy that defined this historic showdown. Don’t miss the conclusion to one of football’s most infamous battles! If you’ve enjoyed this series, please subscribe for more deep dives into sports history, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oct 29, 2024

This week on It Was What It Was , we’re traveling back to 1967, when Celtic’s legendary Lisbon Lions clashed with Racing Club in an unforgettable, fiery three-match series for the Intercontinental Cup. In Part One, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper set the stage before the first leg at Hampden Park, where Jock Stein’s side secured a 1-0 advantage to take to South America - though the real drama was just beginning. Join us on Thursday for the thrilling conclusion of this historic showdown in Part Two! If you’re enjoying the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oct 22, 2024

This week on It Was What It Was, we're talking one of football's greatest rivalries: Real Madrid and Barcelona. In the week of El Clasico, Spanish football expert Sid Lowe joins Rob and Jonathan to discuss the history, politics and scandal behind possibly the biggest club match in football. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode - and please consider leaving us a five star review to help others find the show. Thank you! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oct 17, 2024

Join us for the final part of our special series on the shoe salesman who changed football forever: Arrigo Sacchi. In this episode of It Was What It Was, Sacchi comes to the end of his first spell at AC Milan and answers his country's call - managing the Italian national side at the World Cup in 1994 and Euro 96. This episode is the last in our series on Sacchi’s extraordinary career and his lasting mark on the sport. It starts with our Sacchi intro episode with Jamie Carragher (please go back and listen if you missed it!). If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oct 15, 2024

It Was What It Was continues our special look into the life and career of one of football's greatest and most influential managers: Arrigo Sacchi. In this episode, Sacchi has finally arrived at AC Milan and, with a team of legends in the making, his greatest work is about to begin. This episode is part of our series on Sacchi’s extraordinary career and his lasting mark on the sport. It starts with our Sacchi intro episode with Jamie Carragher (please go back and listen if you missed it!). If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oct 10, 2024

It Was What It Was continues the epic story of arguably the most important manager in modern football history: Arrigo Sacchi. In this episode, Rob and Jonathan explore Sacchi's rise through the coaching ranks. Sacchi earns his spurs in youth coaching, before his impressive work at Parma turns the head of Italian giants AC Milan, and their enigmatic owner Silvio Berlusconi. This episode is part of our special series on Sacchi’s extraordinary career and his lasting mark on the sport. It starts with our Sacchi intro episode with Jamie Carragher (please go back and listen if you missed it!). If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oct 8, 2024

This week on It Was What It Was, we continue the epic story of arguably the most important manager in modern football history: Arrigo Sacchi. Following-up from last week's episode with Jamie Carragher (please go back and listen if you missed it!), Rob and Jonathan go back to Sacchi's roots and how his legend began. We discuss Sacchi's early years, from shoe factories to football coaching - and the family tragedy that changed the Italian's destiny and the destiny of European football. This episode is part of our special series on Sacchi’s extraordinary career and his lasting mark on the sport. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oct 1, 2024

Welcome to The Overlap's football history podcast, It Was What It Was. Special guest and Liverpool legend Jamie Carragher join hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper as they explore the legacy of one of football’s most iconic managers: Arrigo Sacchi. Widely regarded as one of the greatest minds in the sport, Sacchi led AC Milan to back-to-back European Cup triumphs in the late 1980s, building a team that Carragher grew up idolising. In this episode, Carragher discusses Sacchi's profound influence on football, how his revolutionary tactics reshaped the game, and the impact they had on Carragher's own playing career. Together, the trio provides an in-depth analysis of Sacchi’s extraordinary career and his lasting mark on the sport. Next week we dig even deeper into the genius of Sacchi, as Jonathan and Rob kick off their special four-part series on his life, starting with his early years. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sep 24, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. On this week's episode we travel back to one of the biggest financial scandals in early English football—the 1904-05 Manchester City scandal. Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper unravel the events that saw Manchester City, fresh off their FA Cup win, embroiled in controversy over illegal player payments. It Was What It Was explores how the Football Association’s wage cap led to the club’s downfall, forcing manager Tom Maley and 17 players—including star winger Billy Meredith—banned. You’ll hear how this scandal not only rocked Manchester City but also paved the way for Manchester United's rise, reshaping the footballing landscape in ways that still echo today with City currently facing 115 charges as of September 2024. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sep 17, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. As Aston Villa return to Champions League football this week, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take a deep dive into the club's most iconic moment: their 1982 European Cup triumph. It Was What It Was revisits this historic victory, made even more remarkable by the fact that manager Ron Saunders resigned midway through the season, leaving Tony Barton to step in and guide Villa to European glory. Jonathan and Rob walk us through the unforgettable campaign, which saw Villa travel to Germany and Ukraine before defeating Bayern Munich 1-0 in the final. The win became even more legendary when first-choice goalkeeper Jimmy Rimmer was forced off with an injury, only for his inexperienced replacement, Nigel Spink, to step up and deliver a crucial performance in just his second-ever first-team appearance, cementing his place in Villa's history on one of the club’s greatest nights. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. ***Please note this episode was recorded before the death of the late Gary Shaw.*** Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sep 10, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was . This week, our hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper dive into the extraordinary journey of Lionel Messi, widely regarded as the greatest footballer of all time. With his 2022 World Cup triumph marking the pinnacle of an already legendary career, Jonathan and Rob take a journey back to Messi’s beginnings. They explore his childhood in Rosario, the crucial role his family played in his development, and his time at Newell's Old Boys, where he faced and overcame a growth hormone deficiency that almost ended his dream before it began. In this episode of It Was What It Was , they delve into his life-changing move to Barcelona at just 13, joining the iconic Class of '87 alongside future stars like Cesc Fàbregas and Gerard Piqué, where Messi would go on to become the greatest player in the club’s storied history. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sep 3, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. This week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper tell the story of probably the most-consequential football club takeover ever: When Roman Abramovich bought Chelsea in 2003. Before sportswashing was even a word and in an age when Financial Fair Play didn’t exist, we examine the background to the most-startling and unexpected deal in Premier League history. And the extraordinary impact it would make, as Chelsea splurged what was at the time an eye-watering £100m in that first summer transfer window, laying the foundations for Chelsea to become a super club that would win 18 major trophies in the Roman era. It transformed the Premier League, threatened Fergie, ruined the latter years of Arsene Wenger’s career, caused UEFA to dream up new FFP rules to curb them and paved the way for the era of nation state investors at Manchester City, Paris St Germain and Newcastle United. It Was What it Was goes back to that stunning summer which changed the game and debates whether football was ever the same after the Roman Conquest. Please subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Aug 27, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was . This week, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore the connection between Ferenc Puskas and Ange Postecoglou, and how the Hungarian idol influenced the Australian coach. Regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, Ferenc Puskas’s post-playing career saw him manage across the world, including stints in Spain, America, Greece, Saudi Arabia, and Australia. It was in Australia where Puskas, the manager, coached Postecoglou, the player, at South Melbourne Hellas. Jonathan and Rob detail Ange Postecoglou’s life, including the influence of his Greek father, and how Puskás's coaching philosophy left a lasting impact on him. Discover how these experiences shaped Postecoglou’s approach to management and contributed to his success. As Postecoglou gets underway in his second season with Tottenham Hotspur, join us to uncover the enduring legacy of Ferenc Puskas on one of today’s most innovative coaches. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Aug 22, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. In Part One, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper set the scene for Liverpool’s incredible 4-3 win over Newcastle in April 1996. We now delve into the game itself and the consequences that follow. Having been 12-points clear in the run for the Premier League title, Jonathan and Rob provide an in-depth look into how this game symbolically ends Newcastle’s title chances and ultimately leads to Kevin Keegan leaving the club. We look closely into the teams, the goals, the players and the atmosphere, as well the aftermath of the game, giving a real resonance of what will happen in football in the next 10 years. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Aug 20, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. In this week’s episode, we take an in-depth look into the true classic that was Liverpool v Newcastle in April 1996, as The Reds snatched a victory in the final moments in front of the Kop. Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the backstory of the season, giving context coming into the game, including Newcastle’s 12 point-lead as they looked to be in the clear for the Premier League title. The second part of this, which focuses on the game and the consequences that follow, will be out on Thursday 22nd August If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Aug 13, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was . In this week’s episode, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take an in-depth look at Pep Guardiola's journey to becoming a football legend. Focusing on the early stages of his coaching career and the political landscape at Barcelona, Jonathan and Rob explain how the Catalonian club turned to Pep during a turbulent period. Under his leadership, Barcelona experienced its most successful era in history. As we anticipate the 2024/25 Premier League campaign, where Pep aims for an unprecedented fifth consecutive league title at Manchester City, join us to discover how he evolved into the tactical mastermind celebrated as one of the greatest football managers of all time. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Aug 6, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. In this week’s episode, we take an in-depth look into a game that was full of trouble -The 1974 Charity Shield at Wembley between Liverpool and Leeds, during a time when behaviour on and off the pitch was declining English football. Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the social context and lead up to the game, including a new Liverpool under Bob Paisley and a new Leeds under Brian Clough as they head into the game with uncertainty on both sides. Jonathan and Rob also provide a detailed analysis of the match itself, including key players, key incidents that lead to fighting on the pitch and the aftermath of the game on both clubs and English football. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jul 30, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was . This week, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into one of football's dirtiest ever games: the infamous Battle of Santiago in 1962. Regarded as one of the most brutal matches in football history, the Battle of Santiago saw host nation Chile face Italy in a violent and chaotic encounter at the World Cup. Jonathan and Rob detail the events leading up to the game and the explosive incidents on the pitch, where the first foul was committed within 12 seconds, and armed police entered the field three times. They also explore the lasting impact this notorious match had on the world of football. Discover the political and cultural tensions that fuelled the animosity between the teams, and hear about the controversy surrounding Chile's hosting of the World Cup just two years after a catastrophic earthquake. Learn how this game led to significant changes in football's officiating and disciplinary procedures, including the invention of the yellow and red card system by the match referee, Ken Aston. Join us to uncover the full story behind the Battle of Santiago, a match that remains a stark reminder of the sport's darker side. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jul 23, 2024

*This episode of It Was What It Was discusses issues including racism, with content that some listeners may find offensive.* Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. In this week’s episode, we take an in-depth look into the successful Uruguay National team of the 1920s and one their key players, Jose Leandro Andrade, who was perhaps one of the first to spark a global mania over a footballer. Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the history of Uruguay, how they develop such an impressive team to became one of football’s first global powerhouses, winning gold in the 1924 and 1928 Olympics and lifting the first FIFA World Cup in 1930. Jonathan and Rob also provide a detailed analysis of Uruguay’s style of play and their key players, with a particular focus on the life of Jose Leandro Andrade, his journey into football, his rise to fame and falling into poverty. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jul 17, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. In this week's bonus episode, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper talk about Gareth Southgate and England's Euro 2024 tournament - which proved to be Southgate's last as the Three Lions manager. Jonathan and Rob reflect on Euro 2024, before questioning where Southgate ranks amongst the greatest English managers - after guiding his country to two Euro finals and a World Cup semi-final after decades of underachievement. Get in touch with the podcast on socials to let us know where you would place Southgate amongst England's managers. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jul 16, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. In this week’s episode, we take an in-depth look into the story of Dezso Solti, a complex character who was one of the most notorious and biggest match fixers in European football during the 1960s and 1970s. Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into Solti’s extraordinary and horrific origin story in Auschwitz death camp as a Hungarian Jew in 1944, how he got out of Hungary and into Italy. Jonathan and Rob provide a detailed analysis of Solti’s journey into Italian football, match fixing in this era, the bribing of match officials, including the semi-final of the 1965 European Cup and the evidence that leads to his banning from football. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jul 9, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. In this week’s episode, we take an in-depth look into the 1920 Boxing Day game between Dick Kerr ladies and St Helens Ladies at Goodison, which remained the biggest crowd at a women’s game in England for over 90 years. It also appeared to be a historic turning point, as the FA would ban women’s football a year later on the 5th December 1921. Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the growth of women’s football in the 19th-century, looking at the formation of Dick, Kerr Ladies in Preston during WW1, the powerhouse they would become in English football, the attention their football would attract and the large crowds it created. Jonathan and Rob provide a detailed analysis of the lead-up to the game on Boxing Day that attracted 52,000 fans, raising money for wounded soldiers, the months that followed which led to the FA’s decision to ban women’s football and looking at how far we have come since. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jul 4, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. In Part One, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper set the scene for the qualification of the 1972 Euro quarter-final, where England were knocked out by West Germany. We now delve into the continuing years of decline as England failed to qualify for the following three major tournaments. Having won the World Cup in 1966, Sir Alf Ramsey’s England side descend into struggle as Jonathan and Rob provide an in-depth look at where it goes wrong for England and how it came to the point where a World Cup winning manager was sacked by his country. We look into England’s failure to qualify for the 1974 World Cup in their group with Wales and Poland, as Ramsey’s tactics and style of play led to his sacking, as well as the aftermath for the Three Lions. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jul 2, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. In this week’s episode, we take an in-depth look into the decline of England's most successful manager Sir Alf Ramsey, exploring how his 1966 World Cup winners were beaten by a much-improved West Germany side over two quarter-final qualification legs for Euro 1972. Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the tactical revolution of England under Alf Ramsey, from their World Cup win in 1966 to their descent in Euro 1972, as West Germany’s positional intelligence show that England were no longer the best in the world. Jonathan and Rob provide a detailed analysis of Ramsey’s style of play, the build-up to the first leg quarter-final defeat at Wembley, the changing relationship between England and West Germany from 1966 to 1972 and the key players in those tournaments. Our second part is out on Thursday 4th July. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jun 25, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. In this week’s episode, on its 40th Anniversary, we dive into Euro 1984, a tournament that marked a pivotal moment in French football history as they lifted a major tournament trophy for the first time. Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the impact of Michel Platini, whose footballing prowess and leadership played a crucial role in guiding France to victory on their home turf. They also analyse how the tournament shaped European football and paved the way for future international competitions. Jonathan and Rob provide a detailed analysis of the group stages, revisit the historic knockout stage clashes, including the semi-final regarded as the Euro’s greatest ever match between France and Portugal, which culminated in France’s triumphant 2-0 final win over Spain. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jun 18, 2024

In this week’s episode, we take an in-depth look at Euro 2012, a tournament fondly remembered as the crowning moment in Spain’s era of dominance, marking their third consecutive major win following Euro 2008 and the 2010 World Cup. Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper kick things off by delving into the politics behind the decision to host the tournament in Poland and Ukraine, exploring how the host cities managed the logistical challenges and the lasting impact of the event. Jonathan and Rob provide a comprehensive overview of the group stages, highlighting memorable moments such as Danny Welbeck’s back-heeled winner against Sweden. They then move on to iconic knockout stage moments, including Andrea Pirlo’s masterful penalty, Mario Balotelli’s unforgettable performance against Germany and Spain’s utterly dominant 4-0 victory over Italy in the final. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jun 13, 2024

Welcome back to The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. In Part One, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper set the scene for the Euro 2004 knockout stages. Now, we delve into the life of Greece manager Otto Rehhagel, who orchestrated one of football’s greatest miracles at Euro 2004. The tournament was a landmark for many nations, especially England, who dramatically lost on penalties to hosts Portugal in a thrilling match after Sven Goran-Eriksson’s star 18-year-old Wayne Rooney was injured. Jonathan and Rob provide an in-depth look at the knockout stages, detailing how Greece astonishingly dethroned France, then defeated the Czech Republic in silver-goal extra time, before beating Portugal for the second time in the competition, having never previously won at a major international tournament. If you enjoyed the podcast, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jun 11, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. With Euro 2024 approaching this week, we present a special two-part episode on Euro 2004, a tournament where underdogs Greece achieved one of international football’s greatest upsets. Regarded as the one that got away from Sven-Goran Eriksson’s Golden Generation England team, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper set the scene with a full detailed look on the group stages. From Portugal’s preparation as hosts to their opening defeat by eventual winners Greece and an 18 year-old Wayne Rooney propelling himself to an international icon, part one delves into the story surrounding the nations before the knock-out rounds. Join us for part two on Thursday 13th June where Rob and Jonathan tell the story of Greece manager Otto Rehhagel and the path that led the way to one of football’s biggest ever shocks. If you enjoyed the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jun 4, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the sliding doors moments that lead to the Manchester United treble win in 1999. In the years leading up to Sir Alex Ferguson's greatest achievement, we take a look at some of the key moments that could have changed the course of history: from Maurice Watkins recommending Alex Ferguson as the manager to replace Terry Venables as Barcelona manager in 1986 to Alan Hansen’s infamous comment on Match of the Day as well as United's youth system and signing Eric Cantona. It Was What It Was gives a detailed look into the changes that took place at Old Trafford that paved the journey to the treble; including building the squad after the 1994 Champions League loss to Barcelona, new revenue at Old Trafford and the tactical and financial changes at the club. If you enjoyed the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

May 30, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. In part two of our Reds in Rome story, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the events of the day of the 1984 European Cup final between Roma and Liverpool. Having set the scene in part one of our two-part special, Jonathan and Rob reveal insightful stories from inside the Liverpool camp, the real hostilities their fans dealt with and how Joe Fagan’s side managed to win the first ever European Cup penalty shoot-out, which also unearthed Bruce Grobbelaar’s spaghetti legs. If you enjoyed the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

May 28, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. This week we have a two part special focussing on Liverpool’s 1984 European Cup victory, 40 years on from one of the finest nights in the Reds' history. Journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper discuss the events leading up to the final where Joe Fagan’s side beat Roma in their own stadium as they lifted their fourth European Cup in seven years having already won the league title and league cup in the same season. In part one Jonathan and Rob explore where Liverpool were as a club and city along with reliving famous knockout stage contests, including dramatic wins over Benfica and Dinamo Bucuresti where tempers flared on and off the pitch. Join us for part two on Thursday 30th May to listen to the historical European Cup final where Liverpool became the first side to win the final on penalties. If you enjoyed the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

May 21, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue the series with a unite insight into the life of Jurgen Klopp. Klopp leaves his managerial role at Liverpool having ended their 30 year top flight trophy drought alongside a historic Champions League, FA Cup, League Cup and Club World Cup during a 9-year period that changed Anfield. Rightly regarded as one of the most important managerial spells in the Reds history, Jonathan and Rob explore the events that made Klopp the charismatic manager he is today. From his childhood and familial upbringing in Baden-Wurttemberg in Stuttgart to his playing then managerial stint at Mainz - that included an incredible final day of the season encounter - It Was What It Was gives a detailed look into the life of the German manager. If you enjoyed the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

May 16, 2024

Welcome back to The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. On our second and final part of Arsenal ’89: The Game That Change Football Forever, journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper re-live the unforgettable final day of the 1988/89 campaign that seen Arsenal leapfrog Liverpool to the First Division title at Anfield. George Graham’s Arsenal required a two-goal victory in the final match of the season against reigning champions Liverpool to overtake their opponents and pulled off the miracle through second-half goals from Alan Smith and a last gasp strike from Michael Thomas. Jonathan and Rob discuss the stunning finale to the season, including the events of the day, celebrational aftermath and how the defining game changed English football forever. If you enjoyed the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

May 14, 2024

Welcome to the latest episode of The Overlap’s football history podcast, It Was What It Was. Hosted by journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper, we continue our series with a game regarded as one of the biggest in English football history as Arsenal snatched the First Division title from Liverpool at Anfield through Michael Thomas's late goal in a 2-0 win on the final day of the 1988/89 season. In part one of two in our special, Rob and Jonathan set the scene to that famous finale; delving into Arsenal's rebuild under George Graham, Liverpool’s European dominance alongside the historical, social and TV context of the late 1980's. Join us for part two on Thursday 16th May to hear the events of the one of the biggest matches in English history and what the aftermath meant for the game. If you enjoyed the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

May 7, 2024

Welcome to The Overlap’s brand-new football history podcast, It Was What It Was. Hosted by journalists Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper, we kick off our series with the story behind one of the greatest managers of all time – Sir Alex Ferguson. Sir Alex Ferguson won 38 major trophies in 26 years as Manchester United boss, including 13 Premier League titles, two Champions Leagues and five FA Cups during an unprecedented era of success. But his period of dominance at Old Trafford followed a time of struggles, shocks and setbacks with many fans calling for the Scottish manager to be sacked before he won his first trophy four years into his reign. Jonathan and Rob delve into how Sir Alex rejuvenated Manchester United, explaining how his arrival from Aberdeen transformed the club’s culture, why his forward-thinking approach for the youth team structure was so essential and which moments were vital in laying the foundations of footballing superiority that transformed the English game. If you enjoyed the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

May 7, 2024

Welcome to The Overlap's historical football podcast, It Was What It Was. Each week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper will be talking about the key episodes in football history that have shaped the footballing world today. The show will be discussing the best stories from football's past, giving insights to the personalities involved, providing details from behind the scenes and offering vital historical context. If you enjoy the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.