About this episode
John 'Captain Crunch' Draper , the legendary telephone hacker whose exploits helped launch the computer revolution, shares the incredible story of how he discovered methods to manipulate telephone networks using simple whistles and electronic devices. The pioneering phone phreak explains how his discovery of precise audio frequencies used by telephone switching systems enabled free long-distance calling and ultimately contributed to the development of personal computing and internet technologies. Draper recounts his interactions with early Apple Computer founders Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, who learned crucial technical skills from phone phreaking that later influenced their computer designs. The conversation explores the underground culture of technology enthusiasts who challenged corporate telecommunications monopolies and government surveillance systems through ingenious technical innovation. Draper discusses his arrests, legal battles, and imprisonment resulting from his telephone system explorations, revealing how authorities struggled to understand and prosecute emerging computer crimes. His story illustrates the tension between technological innovation and established power structures, as phone phreaking represented both creative exploration and perceived threat to corporate profits. This fascinating interview with a true technology pioneer provides insights into the early hacker culture that helped shape the digital revolution and demonstrates how individual curiosity and technical skill can challenge seemingly impenetrable systems through creative problem-solving and persistent experimentation.