About this episode
What if employment as we know it has already died—and we’re just pretending not to notice? In Part One of this three-part series, Josh Drean—Harvard MBA, startup founder, and co-author of Employment is Dead (Harvard Business Review Press)—joins Vince to dissect the slow death of traditional work. From the failure of annual engagement surveys to the false promise of “people-first” slogans, Josh makes it clear: the current system was built for the factory floor, not the future. We trace Josh’s journey from studying psychology to working in corporate consulting during the pandemic, and now building the Work3 Institute to help leaders redesign employment itself. Why is HR still feared? Why are employees called “assets” but treated like expenses? And how can new technologies like Web3 create better human systems? Part Two digs into how a cold outreach led to an HBR publishing deal—and the 10 principles Josh says every modern worker wants now. Key Highlights of Our Interview: Why Engagement Surveys Are a Broken Ritual “Surveys are the dumbest way to build a relationship. They’re not designed for honesty—and most leaders don’t really want the truth.” The False Math of ‘People Are Our Greatest Asset’ “If people were really assets, they’d show up on the balance sheet. But they don’t. They’re an expense—and treated like one.” The Pandemic Wake-Up Call “I started consulting right as COVID hit. It forced companies to rethink safety, remote work, and what their employees actually needed.” The HR Dilemma: Protector of People or Risk Manager? “Most employees still associate HR with layoffs. That’s a brand problem—and a system design failure.” From Assembly Lines to AI: Why Taylorism Is Still Haunting Us “Modern work still clings to an industrial-era model—check the box, don’t ask questions. That doesn’t fit the information age.” How Psychology Led Josh Into Web3 and DAO Culture “My reason for doing this never changed—it’s about building better experiences. But tech gave me the tools to scale that.” Meet the Digital Native Workforce (a.k.a. Your Kids) “My 8-year-old builds real friendships through Fortnite. If you think digital community isn’t real—you’re already behind.” The 10 Operating Principles of Work3 “From flexibility and autonomy to interoperability and ownership—these are the non-negotiables for the next generation of work.” Why Forcing People Back to the Office Will Backfire “Employees don’t want the typewriter factory version of work. RTO is a backwards step—and they know it.” From Psychology Grad to HBR Author: Josh’s Journey Begins “I didn’t have a tenured chair or a best-selling track record. Just a cold outreach, a clear message—and a broken system to fix.” _________________________ Connect with us: Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Josh Drean --Chief Change Officer-- Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself. Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligence for Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep, Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts. EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist. 20 Million+ All-Time Downloads. 80+ Countries Reached Daily. Global Top 1% Podcast. Top 5 US Business. Top 1 US Careers. >>>180,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<