May 16, 2024
Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better | Jag Duggal (Nubank, Facebook, Google, Quantcast)
Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | GrowthAbout this episode
Jag Duggal is chief product officer at Nubank, a decacorn neobank founded in Brazil. It’s valued at over $30 billion, is bigger than Coinbase, Robinhood, Affirm, and SoFi combined, has 100 million customers (more than Bank of America!) while only operating in three countries in Latin America, and 80% to 90% of its growth comes through word of mouth. Prior to Nubank, Jag was a director of product management at Facebook, a senior vice president at Quantcast, and a product leader at Google. In our conversation, we discuss: • How Nubank builds a fanatical user base • Tactics for driving word-of-mouth growth • Measuring customer love through the Sean Ellis score • The importance of strategic clarity • The role of category design in creating successful products • Why companies should strive to be “fundamentally different,” not “incrementally better” • Nubank’s vision for an AI-powered banking future — Brought to you by: • WorkOS —Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs • Mercury —The powerful and intuitive way for ambitious companies to bank • OneSchema —Import CSV data 10x faster — Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/be-fundamentally-different-jag-duggal — Where to find Jag Duggal: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jagduggal/ — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Jag’s background (04:34) Nubank’s remarkable achievements (06:01) Nubank’s product development process (11:23) Nubank’s values (12:16) Building products people love fanatically (15:21) The Sean Ellis score (21:27) An example project using the Sean Ellis score (25:07) Picking up the phone and calling customers (28:20) The importance of starting small and iterating (30:42) Pushing back effectively (34:10) Uncovering pain points through customer research (37:53) An example of setting a clear hypothesis (42:01) Developing a strategy (52:16) “Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better” (53:10) Category design (57:37) Nubank’s founding story and goals for the future (01:00:46) Advice for adding new product lines (01:03:46) The future of fintech and banking (01:09:23) AI corner (01:12:34) Failure corner (01:20:24) Key takeaways (01:22:11) Lightning round — Referenced: • Nubank: https://nubank.com.br/en/ • Coinbase: https://www.coinbase.com/ • Robinhood: https://www.robinhood.com/ • SoFi: https://www.sofi.com/ • Affirm: https://www.affirm.com/ • Lemonade: https://www.lemfi.com/ • Bank of America: https://www.bankofamerica.com/ • Nubank achieves a world record with more than 7 million people participating in NuBolão in one month: https://building.nubank.com.br/nubank-achieves-world-record-with-nubolao • Nu México carries out first financial transaction 20 meters under the depth of the sea: https://www.bnamericas.com/en/news/nu-mexico-carries-out-first-financial-transaction-20-meters-under-the-depth-of-the-sea • David Vélez on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-v%C3%A9lez-1004875 • Cristina Junqueira on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/crisjunqueira • Edward Wible on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamedwardwible • Sequoia Capital: https://www.sequoiacap.com/ • Churrascaria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churrascaria • Nubank’s real foundation: our culture and values: https://building.nubank.com.br/nubank-culture-and-values/ • Working Backwards Press Release Template and Example: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/working-backwards-press-release-template-example-ian-mcallister/ • Sean Ellis test: https://productcoalition.com/using-sean-ellis-test-for-measuring-your-product-market-fit-c8ac98053c2c • How to know if you’ve got product-market fit: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-know-if-youve-got-productmarket • Reid Hoffman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reidhoffman/ • Ultravioleta: Nubank expands its premium card offer and adds new features on the product’s first anniversary: https://international.nubank.com.br/company/ultravioleta-nubank-expands-its-premium-card-offer-and-adds-new-features-on-the-products-first-anniversary/ • Jeff Bezos: Amazon and Blue Origin | Lex Fridman Podcast #405: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcWqzZ3I2cY • The Innovation Method Behind Swiffer Madness: https://www.fastcompany.com/3006797/innovation-method-behind-swiffer-madness • Kevin Systrom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinsystrom/ • Good Strategy, Bad Strategy | Richard Rumelt: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/good-strategy-bad-strategy-richard • Good Strategy/Bad Strategy: The Difference and Why It Matters : https://www.amazon.com/Good-Strategy-Bad-Difference-Matters/dp/0307886239 • The Crux: How Leaders Become Strategists : https://www.amazon.com/Crux-How-Leaders-Become-Strategists/dp/1541701240/ • How to become a category pirate | Christopher Lochhead (author of Play Bigger, Niche Down, Category Pirates, more): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-become-a-category-pirate-christopher • Play Bigger: How Pirates, Dreamers, and Innovators Create and Dominate Markets : https://www.amazon.com/Play-Bigger-Dreamers-Innovators-Dominate/dp/0062407619 • Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works : https://www.amazon.com/Playing-Win-Strategy-Really-Works/dp/142218739X • A framework for finding product-market fit | Todd Jackson (First Round Capital): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-framework-for-finding-product-market • Citi: https://www.citi.com/ • Santander Bank: https://www.santanderbank.com/ • Fidji Sumo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fidjisimo/ • Harvard Kennedy School: https://www.hks.harvard.edu/ • Susan Wojcicki on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susan-wojcicki-b136a99/ • Coldplay—“Lost+” ft. Jay-Z: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkCDRm_YRFg • Google Buys DoubleClick for $3.1 Billion: https://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/14/technology/14DoubleClick.html • Real-time bidding: https://support.google.com/authorizedbuyers/answer/6136272 • From Third World to First: The Singapore Story: 1965-2000 : https://www.amazon.com/Third-World-First-Singapore-1965-2000/dp/0060197765/ • The Gilded Age on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-gilded-age • Lomi: https://lomi.com/ • Nubank careers: https://international.nubank.com.br/careers/ — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ . For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com . — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe