About this episode
Andrew Bosworth —or Boz, as most people know him—is the chief technology officer at Meta and head of Reality Labs, the company’s augmented reality/virtual reality (AR/VR) organization, which he created in 2017. Boz joined Facebook in 2006 as their approximately 10th engineer, and in his 18-year tenure he built the original News Feed, Messenger, and Groups, as well as many early anti-abuse and infrastructure systems. At various times he has been the engineering director overseeing Events, Places, Photos, Videos, Timeline, Privacy, and more. Before Reality Labs, he ran the Ads and Business Platform product group, where he led engineering, product, research, analytics, and design, taking annual revenue from $4 billion to $40 billion in five years. Andrew currently leads Meta’s efforts in AR, VR, AI, and consumer hardware across Quest, Ray-Ban Meta glasses, and more. In our conversation, we discuss: • Stories from the early days of Facebook • Lessons from Meta’s downturn and recent turnaround • Meta’s culture of transparency • Boz’s thoughts on the Apple Vision Pro • Why communication is the job • Why you should regularly seek help from your manager • Lessons in setting incentives and avoiding their misuse • Why you should optimize for a variety in experience in your career • The importance of trusting your own expertise and not being swayed by external opinions • Stories of failures and personal growth — Brought to you by: • Vanta —Automate compliance. Simplify security. • Eppo —Run reliable, impactful experiments • Explo —Embed customer-facing analytics in your product — Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-meta-andrew-boz-bosworth-cto — Where to find Andrew Bosworth: • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/boz/ • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/boztank/ • X: https://twitter.com/boztank • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-bosworth-8247a01/ • Website: https://boz.com/ • Photography website: https://wardenshortbow.com/ — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Boz’s background (04:48) Fun facts about him (07:20) Early days at Facebook (11:11) Advice for founders (13:22) Leveraging leaders (19:27) Tips for communicating with managers (22:10) Transparency at Meta (27:01) The importance of clear guidelines (29:11) Involvement in the details (33:15) Building the News Feed (37:28) Passion and career growth (40:25) Exploring new opportunities (42:02) The value of variety in experience (45:01) Giving and receiving feedback (47:38) Boz’s tattoos (51:30) Communication is the job (01:00:47) Comparing VR headsets: Meta Quest 3 and Apple Vision Pro (01:10:41) Meta’s downturn and turnaround (01:16:10) Navigating org changes (01:20:43) Lessons from failure (01:26:33) Closing thoughts (01:29:57) Lightning round — Referenced: • Reality Labs: https://about.meta.com/realitylabs/ • Quest: https://www.meta.com/quest/ • Ray-Ban Meta smart glasses: https://www.ray-ban.com/usa/ray-ban-meta-smart-glasses • Taekwondo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taekwondo • 4-H: https://4-h.org/ • David Copperfield’s website: https://www.davidcopperfield.com/html/ • MC Hammer on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mchammer/ • George W. Bush: https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/presidents/george-w-bush/ • Fry’s Electronics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fry%27s_Electronics • Association for Computing Machinery: https://www.acm.org • Get It Done: https://boz.com/articles/get-it-done • Patrick Stewart on X: https://twitter.com/sirpatstew • The FB Exec Practice That Changed the Way I Lead (about HPMs): https://livingos.substack.com/p/fb-exec-hpm • Mark Zuckerberg on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/zuck • Chris Cox on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-cox-2896b841/ • Javier Olivan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/javierolivan/ • Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/brian-cheskys-new-playbook/ • Eye of Sauron: https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Eye_of_Sauron • Ruchi Sanghvi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rsanghvi/ • Eric Schmidt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-e-schmidt/ • Sheryl Sandberg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheryl-sandberg-5126652/ • Best Advice Sheryl Sandberg Received: If Offered a Seat on Rocket Ship, Get On: https://news.yahoo.com/blogs/newsmakers/best-advice-sheryl-sandberg-received-don-t-idiot-161459450.html • Veritas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veritas • Communication is The Job: https://boz.com/articles/communication-is-the-job • Repetition does not spoil the prayer: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/repetition-does-spoil-prayer-constantine-constantinides-m-d-ph-d--1f/ • Janet Lansbury’s website: https://www.janetlansbury.com/ • Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinside • Boz to the Future Episode 18: The Future According to Matthew Ball: https://www.meta.com/blog/quest/boz-to-the-future-episode-18-matthew-ball-metaverse-epyllion/ • Apple Vision Pro: https://www.apple.com/apple-vision-pro • Quest 3 headset: https://www.meta.com/quest/quest-3/ • Virtual desktop: https://www.meta.com/experiences/2017050365004772/ • Meta Horizon Workrooms: https://www.meta.com/experiences/2514011888645651/ • After trying the Vision Pro, Mark Zuckerberg says Quest 3 ‘is the better product, period’: https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/13/24072413/mark-zuckerberg-apple-vision-pro-review-quest-3 • Lou Holtz on X: https://twitter.com/CoachLouHoltz88 • Gell-Mann amnesia effect: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_Amnesia_effect • “Wet streets cause rain”: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19026568 • Michael Crichton on X: https://twitter.com/CrichtonBooks • AI research at Meta: https://ai.meta.com/research/ • Llama 2: https://llama.meta.com/ • Warren Buffett quote: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/warren_buffett_383933 • Mark Slee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mcslee/ • Dave Fetterman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davefetterman/ • Emacs and Vim: https://dev.to/george_udonte/emacs-and-vim-an-overview-for-beginners-2e65 • Ami Vora on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amvora/ • The Dream Machine : https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Machine-M-Mitchell-Waldrop/dp/1732265119 • Alan Turing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing • Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be : https://www.amazon.com/Good-Inside-Guide-Becoming-Parent/dp/B09Y4WG7RJ • Dr. Becky’s website: https://www.goodinside.com/ • The Mandalorian on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/series/the-mandalorian/3jLIGMDYINqD • Scott Trowbridge on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-trowbridge-b70866/ • Dave Filoni on X: https://twitter.com/dave_filoni • Jon Favreau on X: https://twitter.com/jon_favreau • Mercedes-Benz AMG EQS Sedan: https://www.mbusa.com/en/vehicles/model/eqs/sedan/amgeqsv4 • Tracey Emin “Trust Yourself”: https://www.artsy.net/artwork/tracey-emin-trust-yourself • Tracey Emin on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/traceyeminstudio • Rick Rubin: Protocols to Access Creative Energy and Process | Huberman Lab Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpgqXCkRO-w • Ansel Adams: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansel_Adams — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ . For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com . — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe