About this episode
Chocolate has a secret life. One where, instead of being formed into industrial bars, women combine it by hand with local herbs to make drinks. One where it is a healer , not a creator of addiction . One where it’s revered - held so sacred that it’s used in ceremony and as currency, not bought for a few pennies, wrapper discarded. One where it’s bitter , potent and intense, not sweet and sickly. And one where nobody feels guilt when they imbibe it. There’s no-one more qualified to open the door to this world than Marcos Patchett, author of the 700-page The Secret Life of Chocolate . This book, which covers everything you could possibly want to know about cacao - including how it was ancestrally used, it’s pharmacology and it’s mythology - will completely change your view of cacao. “ There’s a lifetime’s worth of research in this book. ” Come join us as we dive into a cacao-flavoured world! The run-down: 1:52 About the book 7:20 Why Marcos wrote the book 12:19 The effect of imbibing extracted plant compounds v. the whole plant 15:10 How cacao was originally drunk and how chocolate is eaten in the West now 20:25 The book-writing high point 26:40 Alison, Andrea and Marcos talk about their relationships with chocolate 34:00 Chocolate and disordered eating 36:58 Cacao’s medicinal effects 44:00 How chocolate’s effects are mediated by the eater’s intention 59.40 The cultural side of cacao's history 1:07:25 Self-medicating with chocolate as part of disordered eating 1.10:25 Practical steps to start eating chocolate ancestrally/authentically “ It blew my mind to realise I’ve been blocking benefits of chocolate by feeling guilt ” Alison *Due to equipment failure, this episode does not have as good audio quality as normal. But it's totally listenable and wonderful content!* If you want to buy your own copy of the book, Marcos is offering a 20% discount. Use the code CHOC20 on the publishers website: For those in the US: https://bit.ly/3dVRX1d For rest of world: https://www.aeonbooks.co.uk “ The modern research suggests quite strongly that cacao is protective against heart disease and stroke and type 2 diabetes .” Marcos Resources mentioned: Our 6 Books We Love episode Jonathan Ott - The Cacahuatl Eater Susana Trilling - Seasons of my Heart Mama Coca “ Only eating the chocolate mindfully produced a positive increase in mood ” Marcos Where to find Marcos and his work: Marcos’ book’s website: https://thesecretlifeofchocolate.com/ Marcos’ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nocturnalherbalist/ Marcos’ herbalist website: http://nocturnalherbalist.co.uk You Tube The Nocturnal Herbalist Sourcing your own cacao: “ You learn so much doing it from scratch, and the quality is so much better ” Alison To source your own cacao as beans: Look for raw (i.e. not previously roasted) Criollo or Forastero beans. Europe : Where Alison has sourced organic cacao beans: http://macrolibrarsi.it and http://cacaopuro.com She is currently working on European sourcing of a known single-origin bean, in home-chocolate-maker quantities. Stay connected with her if you’d like to know what she finds. USA : Organic arriba criollo cacao beans Forastero Cacao To source ready-made roasted and ground cacao ‘ paste ’ search for cacao liquor or cacao paste. Marcos suggested cacao amor (UK-based), you can get a 20% discount with the code: nocturnalherbalist20 Rebekah Shaman also sells this in the UK Blocks of organic ground cacao paste (US) Valrhona industrially-roasted ‘couverture’ (this is the ‘base’ chocolate that many fine chocolate-makers use to make more complicated bars and small chocolates) Other resources: All about metates and grinding stones Snippet of someone grinding cacao in a metate (You can also watch Marcos doing this on the cacao preparation videos on his You Tube channel (linked above)) Mexgrocer (scroll down to read a description of Mexican chocolate drinks): Video of preparing traditional drinking chocolate in Oaxaca, Mexico " Dark chocolate has fuelled many things in my life " Marcos We'd love to continue the conversation. Come find us on Instagram: Andrea is at Farm and Hearth Alison is at Ancestral Kitchen The podcast is at Ancestral Kitchen Podcast Original Music, Episode Mixing and Post-Production by Robert Michael Kay Love what we're doing? We'd love you to be part of our Patreon community! For $9 a month (or equivalent in your currency) you'll be helping us with the costs of recording, editing and putting this work into the world. And you'll get to be part of our world on a deeper level - we've got a monthly intimate patron-exclusive podcast called Kitchen Table Chats and we're also going to share cooking classes, extra interviews and much more. Check out www.patreon.com/ancestralkitchenpodcast for all the details! If you like us and use Apple Podcasts, we'd love it if you left a review! Here's how: Open the Apple Podcast app Find Ancestral Kitchen Podcast in your library (you can search for it) Scroll down to 'ratings and reviews' Click on 'write a review', choose how many wonderful stars you would like to give us (!), title your review and then, in the lower box type a review of up to 300 words. Thank you. We really appreciate you taking the time to support us!