About this episode
It's been a little more than a week since Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy met with President Donald Trump in the Oval Office. Vice President JD Vance was in the meeting too. And Secretary of State Marco Rubio, the nation's top diplomat, sat on an Oval Office couch, mostly silent, as Trump and Vance berated the Ukrainian leader. Along the way, the president and vice president made it clear just how much of the established global order they are ready to upend. An order that for most of his career, Rubio has defended, and worked to help hold up. So what changed ...and what do those changes mean? For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for C onsider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org . Email us at considerthis@npr.org . Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy