About this episode
Today's daf is sponsored by Elisheva Gray in loving memory of Gidi Nahshon, z''l, Yoel Melech ben Moshe v'Sarah, on his tenth yahrzeit. "Gidi was a wonderful mentor, friend and chevruta. He made Aliyah to Israel from Prague and was in the IDF during both the 1967 and Yom Kippur wars. I feel his presence in my Daf Yomi studies every day, and I am grateful that he passed on to me his d'vekut for Israel and for Torah. May his neshama have an aliyah." Today's daf is sponsored by Miri Darchi in loving memory of her father Aharon Shimon ben David and Malka Tzirel. Abaye raises a difficulty against Rabba's position, that males before reaching maturity cannot father a child, from a verse in the Torah regarding a man who engages in relations with a shifcha harufa . The drasha on that verse includes a male over the age of nine. However, the difficulty is resolved, as this is not an indicator that the child can impregnate a woman at that age. Another difficulty is raised against Rabba from a braita of Rabbi Yishmael that derives an exemption for a ben sorer u'moreh who himself is a father - how could he be a father if he did not impregnate the woman before reaching maturity, since according to Rabbi Kruspedai, there is only a three-month window after reaching maturity to be a ben sorer u'moreh ? This is resolved as well by explaining Rabbi Yishmael's drasha as the source for Rabbi Kruspedia's ruling - the three months is based on the fact that the child could potentially be called a father within three months of reaching maturity as his wife could become pregnant and would be showing it after the first three months. Rabbi Kruspedai's opinion is based on the majority of women who give birth at nine months and begin showing at three months and doesn't consider a woman who gives birth at seven months and would be showing at two and a third months. Could this prove that woman who gives birth at seven months also begins showing at three months and not at a third of her pregnancy (two and a third months)? This suggestion is rejected as he follows the majority. However, is that really true? This contradicts the concept that in capital law we try to find any possible way to exonerate the accused from the verse "and the congregation shall save." Two Mishnayot are brought to prove that we do follow the majority even in capital cases, but the second one is rejected as it can be explained differently. Beit Shamai and Beit Hillel disagree about a mother who has an incomplete sexual encounter with her minor son. Does this disqualify her from marrying a kohen, as she could be considered a zona from the interaction? Rav Chisda (either quoted someone else or he was quoted by someone else) explains that they all agree if the child was nine, that she would become disqualified, and if he was younger than eight, then she would not. Their disagreement is about a child who is between eight and nine, as in the days of the Tanach men were able to father children at eight, even though already in the time of the tannaim, this was no longer the situation. The debate is whether we learn from those times or follow what is true presently. What is the source that in the times of the Tanach men fathered children at age eight? At first, they try to prove from Shlomo, as his great grandfather Achitofel was twenty-six years older than him. However, this proof is rejected, as the lineage includes Bat-Sheva who was a woman and she could have been younger, and the men were older. The second attempt is brought from Avraham and Sara, but this is rejected as well as it is not clear whether Avraham was older than Sara's father, Haran or younger. The final proof comes from Bezalel who was the great-grandson of Caleb, who was twenty-six years older than him. If two years are deducted due to three pregnancies, then the remainder of the twenty-four years prove that each father was eight years old at the birth of his son. Why are girls exempted from being a ben sorer u'moreh ?