About this episode
Today's daf is sponsored by Faye Schwartz in loving memory of her mother, Baila bat HaRav Elimelech whose yahrzeit was yesterday. "She instilled in us that it was our responsibility to advocate for those who were unable. Nothing made her prouder than having children whose lives were imbued with the learning and transmission of Torah." Rabbi Yehuda held that female Egyptian and Edomite converts were forbidden just as the men were from marrying in the community. This fits well with a different statement of Rabbi Yehuda that converts are considered like "the community of Jews" and therefore can't marry those who can't marry within the community, such as mamzerim, and if the female converts were permitted to marry, they would not be able to marry the male Egyptian converts and there would be no third-generation Egyptian converts that are permitted to marry within the community. Why does the verse mention both the words 'children' and 'generations' (Devarim 23:9)? Why is the word "to them" mentioned twice? Why is the word "to him" also needed in the mamzer verse? Two different versions of Rabbi Yochanan's opinion are brought regarding the status of a child whose parents are each from different generations of Egyptian converts (first and second) - does the child follow the mother or the father? Two difficulties are raised against the first opinion that holds it follows the father, however, they are resolved. The second opinion is that it follows the mother, as a fetus is considered an extension of the mother's body. Abaye raises a difficulty on that ruling from a different sugya entirely, but he himself resolves it by saying that there is a unique law here based on the verse. A further question is raised on Abaye's answer but it too is resolved. Ravin said in the name of Rabbi Yochanan that with nations of the world, we follow the father and if they converted, we go by the more disqualified parent - to what was he referring in each part of this statement? Mamazerim and Netinim are forbidden forever, both males and females, according to the Mishna. Reish Lakish holds that females are only forbidden for the first ten generations based on a gezeira shava from the verses about converts from Amon and Moav. How does he disagree with the Mishna? When Rabbi Eliezer was asked about this, he said that mamzerim are known to die out and would never make it even to a third generation. Why? And how does this match the Mishna that forbade them forever? They distinguish between mamzerim who are known to be mamzerim who can live for generations as all will make sure not to marry them and those whose problematic lineage is not known and will therefore die so that no one will accidentally marry them, which could lead to a huge increase in the number of mamzerim. The background to the story of why the Netinim were forbidden to marry Jews in the time of King David is brought.