Episode 255 Wendy's VBAC with an 11-pound Baby

After 24 hours of laboring with broken waters, dilating to 10 centimeters, and pushing, Wendy’s first baby was still not descending. She was exhausted and consented to a C-section. When her baby came out at 11 pounds, 3 ounces, the entire medical team told Wendy that her baby would have never come out vaginally due to his size. Wendy’s second baby was ALSO 11 pounds, 3 ounces, and was indeed born vaginally. We are inspired by all of the obstacles that Wendy overcame to achieve the birth she wanted and love how she is already inspiring those around her to fight for their rights in the birth space too! Additional Links Needed Website How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents Full Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello, hello. This is Meagan. I have an episode. Well, we– I should say– me and my friend, Wendy. We have an episode for you today that’s all about big babies, and not all about babies. We’re going to be talking about induction and things like that but big babies, you guys. This is one of the most frustrating things to me. I’m sure, Wendy, maybe it would be to you because you did have larger-sized babies so maybe you heard it and felt it, but I remember when I was pregnant with my first. I definitely gained more than I anticipated. I swelled on top of that. I remember going to work and my coworker– I was going to the kitchen to get something. I don’t even know. He was like, “Whoa. Do you need a wheelbarrow?” I was like, “Jeez Louise.” He was like, “You’ve got a really big kid inside of ya.” I was just like, “Wow. Thank you so much as I am 7 months pregnant and you are telling me that I am ginormous.” Right? I just know that through doula work, we have clients all the time being told, “You’re probably going to have a big baby.” They start the big baby fear really early on. So in our minds, it’s like, “Well, am I going to have a big baby? Do I not want to have a big baby? What do I do to not have a big baby?” Our minds just spiral and it’s not healthy for us to be stressing over the size of our baby but we do find ourselves being stressed. We find ourselves being stressed without being told that we have a big baby, and then when we are constantly told, “You might have a big baby,” that can be daunting or scary. If you were told or if you believe or are being told that they believe that you have a big baby today, this is an episode for you for sure. We talk about big babies and we’re going to talk a little bit more about what would be considered a big baby because I’ve also heard of 7-pound babies being told that they were big babies and they are not big babies. So buckle up, we are going to be talking about big babies, induction, and all of the things. Review of the Week But of course, we have a Review of the Week so I want to get into that. This is from Kelly and she left it on Google. If you didn’t know, you can Google “The VBAC Link” and you can leave us a review right there. Of course, you can do it on Apple Podcasts or you can message us on Facebook or even on our personal Instagram or at info@thevbaclink.com . Definitely check out Google because we love your Google reviews. Kelly says, “Julie and Meagan are fantastic. They are truly dedicated to providing the most up-to-date information on VBAC. A great resource.” I agree. I mean, not to toot our own horns, but I do believe that we are a great resource. We are honored to be a resource for you if you are listening. Wendy’s Stories Meagan: Okay, Ms. Wendy. Wendy: Hello. Meagan: Hello. So you are from Michigan? Wendy: Yep. Meagan: You had your babies in Michigan so born and raised and stayed forever. That’s how I am. Born and raised in Utah. I haven’t ever left. Wendy: That’s right. Meagan: But you have two boys and you love being outdoors and doing all of the fun things. So yeah. Tell us more about you and how these cute little boys brought themselves into the world. Wendy: Yeah, well thank you for having me. I have two– I was about to say little– but as you are about to find out, they were very large. Meagan: Not so little when they came out. Wendy: Not so little, no. Although my older one now has kind of tapered out. His charts are coming down which is crazy. So yeah. I guess I can just get into it. My older son just turned two last month. My little guy is two months now so they are just about two years apart now. Meagan: Two and two months, awesome. Wendy: Yeah, and they are great together. It’s amazing to watch. Okay, so I guess I’ll start with the story of Isaac who is my firstborn and then I’ll get on to Levi who is my second guy. Since we already know this is about big babies, I’ll start by saying that I myself was a very large baby. Meagan: Were you? Wendy: I was. I was 11 pounds, 9 ounces. Meagan: Okay. Wendy: My mom is a very, very petite woman. I was the third-born though, so I guess that’s a little bit more likely than your first being really big, but that was really shocking. She did have me vaginally. Meagan: I was just going to ask that. I was going to say, “Did she have you vaginally?” Wendy: Yeah, yes. She did have an epidural though. It’s funny because after she had me, the doctors were like, “Wow. We’ve never had a baby this big. If we knew, we would have had you have a Cesarean.” She did it. Meagan: But why? Wendy: It just goes to show that there are a lot of mentalities that it should be that way. So for my first guy, I planned for a home birth because I got pregnant right when COVID started. I think it was June 2020. The hospitals were crazy. In some places, you couldn’t even have your partner in the hospital. I also have never really feared birth that much so I was like, “Okay, with that and these COVID restrictions, I’m going to do it at home.” From the beginning, he was measuring big. At the 20-week ultrasound, he was in the 99th percentile which was not concerning to my midwife. She was like, “Oh, you know. Those could be off. It’s all good.” I’m like, “Okay.” At 33 weeks, I had a small bleeding incident. It wasn’t anything crazy, but it was enough that I went to the emergency room and I got checked out. The doctors at the hospital said I had a marginal placental abruption. Meagan: Oh, okay. Wendy: It actually never showed on the ultrasound. That’s what they said but they didn’t really know. It was just a one-time thing that happened. Meagan: It was just a possible diagnosis. Wendy: Yeah, right. But it was scary. They sent the NICU doctors in when I was there. They were like, “Just in case. We might have to induce you.” It was scary. I talked to my midwife and she did say that she would continue to take me if I wanted but that there were risks involved so I ended up changing to a birthing center that was about an hour away. That’s the Ann Arbor Children’s Hospital. They are a reputable, really great hospital so I felt really good going there. My midwife became my doula. That was nice to have her alongside me. I did the gestational diabetes test. I did it at home with my finger picking and on that, it actually showed that my levels were high, so for a month, I had a really healthy diet but then I eventually did the 3-hour test and my levels were totally fine. I guess the monitor was faulty. I don’t know. That’s what the midwife said. She was like, “I guess you don’t have it.” I was like, “Okay.” Meagan: You’re like, “All right, great.” Wendy: Yeah. I was like, “I guess I’ll go back to eating–”. I mean, I didn’t eat terribly but I was not eating carbs or sugar. Meagan: Do you think it was because you ate so clean that time that maybe it was like you were getting rid of it? Wendy: I don’t know. Right. I’m not sure. She just said that I didn’t and she said that sometimes those monitors can be faulty. Meagan: It is very true. Yep. Wendy: Anyway, so I felt really good. I tend to have pretty smooth pregnancies according to the two that I have so it was great. People always ask, “Oh, you must have been so uncomfortable with a huge baby.” I felt fine. Meagan: That’s good. How tall are you? Wendy: I’m 5’9”. Meagan: Okay. Yeah. Not that tall. Wendy: Right, yeah. Not that tall. Meagan: Yeah, very average. Wendy: Half of me is Dutch. The other half is Japanese so it’s very petite and very large people. I think I just got more of the Dutch. Maybe. I ended up going– I had him at 41+6 days. So at 41+4 days, I took the midwives’ brew which I know is super controversial. Meagan: It is. Yes. Wendy: But it’s okay to do. I was so far along. I see people doing it before their due date or something. I think that’s when it becomes super risky but I won’t get into that just because it is controversial. I ended up taking it twice that day because the first time, I calculated it wrong. I didn’t do enough then I was like, “Oh, shoot. That was not right,” so I did it again, and then 4 hours later, my water broke. I was at 41+4 days. My mom and sister both labored really quickly. Their labors were so fast so my doula assumed that I would as well because I guess it’s typical to follow in line. Meagan: It’s very possible especially when it’s your sister. A lot of people think it’s more when their mom, but through my doula work, I’ve seen that the sisters' births a lot of the time align. But if it was your mom and sister, I would have been a little bit more on alert. Wendy: Yeah. You would think especially because we had to drive an hour away. Meagan: Super possible, yeah. Wendy: Yeah, my sister’s second birth was literally like 30 minutes. Meagan: Holy smokes. Wendy: Really fast, yeah. Meagan: Yeah, and her first was a few hours so she was like, “We’ve got to go now.” Wendy: We went. Contractions didn’t really start. I ended up being in labor for 29 hours which was unexpected and the contractions came and went. One of the reasons I wanted to go to Ann Arbor was because they had hot tubs and you could actually labor in there. In the other hospitals in Michigan, you can labor in the hot tub but you can’t actually birth in the hot tub but at this place, you could actually birth in them. But the hot tub did not do good things for me. It slowed down my contractions both times. They completely stopped. Meagan: That can happen. Sometimes it’s because it relaxes you so much. Wendy: I literally felt like I was drugged. I couldn’t stay awake. I just kept falling asleep. Meagan: So tired, yeah. Wendy: Yes. I was very tired. So that was kind of a bummer that that happened. I don’t know if that’s the reason that things didn’t go as planned, but let’s see. Yeah. So later, I did get to push and I got to 10 centimeters. I was able to push. My little guy just did not descend. I pushed for an hour and a half and he was in the same exact position at the beginning that he was after an hour and a half. I had also passed that 24-hour period from when my water broke. Meagan: Did you have signs of an infection or was it just that they were like, “Hey, you passed this mark.” Wendy: Yes. I think the more concerning thing was the fact that he had not descended. It was that and the 24-hour mark. Meagan: Were they saying anything about your position or his position? Were they talking about that? Wendy: I don’t think that he was in the best position. I don’t think my doula was as supportive in position changes as I thought she would be. She is a midwife. I think she’s more of the medical side of it and I didn’t really think about that. Meagan: She was like a monitrice a little bit coming in. Wendy: Yeah, right. So that was a little bit of a bummer because when the doctors came to me and suggested that, she was like, “Yeah. We should do it. Do a Cesarean.” I was like, “Okay.” She didn’t even say, “Let’s try another hour.” Meagan: Interesting. Wendy: She was kind of throwing in the towel. She could have also been exhausted because she had been up for over 30 hours too. We ended up going for it. I was also going to say that laboring for me– contractions were not horrible. I did not get the epidural or anything. This is another thing. My sister would tell me that her labors were also chill. She was like, “Oh, contractions weren’t that bad.” Before I went into labor, I was like, “Oh, you’re lying. There’s no way.” Labor is so painful. That’s all I’ve ever heard. But I do think that I did get that a little bit genetically from her too because it wasn’t horrible. I was checked at 10 centimeters by one of the midwives there and they actually sent another one in because they didn’t– Meagan: They wanted to confirm. Wendy: Yeah. They were like, “We have never seen a woman so calm before in labor.” I was like, “Oh, that’s cool.” Meagan: You’re like, “Thank you.” Wendy: Yeah, I was in labor for so long, but it was okay because it wasn’t excruciating for me. Meagan: It wasn’t over the top. Wendy: Yeah, yeah which was nice I guess. Anyway, I ended up having him by C-section. He was 11 pounds, 3 ounces. Meagan: What were they all saying? Wendy: They were all like, “Oh, that’s why he didn’t come out. Your pelvis was too small.” Meagan: Your pelvis was too small. Oh yeah. Wendy: Yeah and all the while, I’m like, “I could have done it.” I know I could have done it because my mom did it. Just having that mentality is frustrating especially because the midwife didn’t do a whole lot. I wasn’t angry about it or anything. I was a little bummed. I got the healthy baby. He was all good. His blood sugar was fine. Meagan: You were feeling good about your decision. Wendy: Yeah. Yeah, I’m glad it wasn’t an emergency C-section. I was able to be aware. But I didn’t have– I had my birth plan and I didn’t have anything in there for a Cesarean which when we get to my second birth, I had a section for that because I just didn’t even think about it with my first. Meagan: A lot of us don’t, right? Wendy: I’m bummed that I didn’t because I didn’t even think about lowering the drape or having a clear one. They didn’t suggest that to me at all so it was kind of just a run-of-the-mill Cesarean. It was just what the standard was. Meagan: Yeah. Wendy: Yeah, so that was my first guy. That was Isaac. Then for this second guy, we conceived about 15 months after Isaac. Meagan: After having him? Wendy: Yes, after having him. I’m sorry. Did I say Isaac? Yeah, after Isaac, we waited 15 months. We were kind of shooting for 18 months but it happened the first time and we were like, “Okay, we’re going for it.” It was kind of a bummer though because my home midwife can’t legally take you after a C-section unless you wait 18 months. Meagan: Really? Wendy: Yeah. Meagan: That’s a law in Michigan. Wow, okay. Wendy: Yeah, so I was just like, “Okay. Well, that’s a bummer. All right.” Meagan: I didn’t know that. Wendy: Yeah. I didn’t go back to Ann Arbor because I didn’t want to do all of the long drives with the little guy. We stayed local. I found a new doula who aligned with my Christian and medical beliefs so we clicked pretty fast. I started at the basic hospital OB/GYN practice but I ended up switching after one of the doctors was like, “You’re really going to try for a VBAC after having an 11-pound baby?” and she laughed. I was like, “Okay.” Meagan: This is not the place. Wendy: We’re done here. I switched. I did a little bit of research and there was this one practice that had really great reviews on all of the local Facebook groups with these moms. Everyone just said a lot of really great things about them. So I went there. They were a lot smaller and they had 5 providers. They had a midwife who was going to be starting a month before I was due. That was encouraging too. The first appointment I had was with the OB. We’ll call her Dr. A just because I eventually don’t have the best experience with her so I don’t want to use her name, but this first appointment was awesome. I was like, “Oh, she is the best.” I went through all of my wishes and she was extremely supportive. She was like, “Oh, yeah. We will do that. We can do that and that.” It was awesome. There were no red flags. I felt so good after not having a great experience at the last place. Yeah, so this pregnancy also didn’t have gestational diabetes. Baby measured smaller. He actually measured 60% at my 20-week scan so I was like, “Man, this baby is going to be tiny compared to my 99th percentile kid.” I just was really– I don’t want to say hopeful because I don’t want to make it sound like my babies are bad but I was like, “Oh, it’s just going to be easier.” Meagan: Well, it’s the stigma on big babies. Wendy: Yeah, I just thought that if it was a small baby, my chances of VBAC would be way bigger. No complications during the whole pregnancy. It was fairly easy for me and then around 32 weeks or so, my fundal height started measuring 3 weeks ahead which is once you go past the 2 weeks ahead, they’re like, “Uh oh. Big baby alert.” So they suggested a growth scan at 38 weeks which I was like, “Okay. He’s going to be small though. Don’t worry about that.” Meagan: Right. Wendy: Yeah, and then at 36 weeks, I met with one of the male OBs there. I just casually asked about inductions and what my options were just because I knew with a VBAC that they are limited but they still do them. He laughed at me and was like, “You can’t do an induction.” I was like, “What? Why?” He was like, “Because your chance of uterine rupture is so high. We don’t do that.” I was like, “Okay.” I just didn’t even know what to say because I don’t know. I didn’t have any information to support myself. I was just taken aback. That was a bummer. I was like, “I’m never going to see him again.” I’d make sure he was not the one that was at the hospital. Yeah. I did get the growth scan at 38 weeks. He was measuring 8 pounds, 11 ounces which was the 96th percentile. Even at that time, I was still like, “Oh, the calculations are wrong. I know it can be off by 2 pounds. I’m sure it’s just off.” I also just again didn’t feel like he was big just like with Isaac. So yeah. I took it with a grain of salt. I’m like, “Whatever,” but at the same time, I was like, “What if he is big?” Meagan: What if he is? Yeah. Wendy: That’s the week I started listening to The VBAC Link religiously. I constantly had an AirPod in my ear always listening. But before that, I was just like, “I don’t need help. Small baby. We’ll be fine,” then I was like, “Uh-oh. Big baby. I need support now.” So I listened to all of the big baby stories and positive induction stories, and there were a couple that just really resonated with me. I wish I could remember which one it was but there was one that you had where a lady had an 11-pound baby. I don’t remember what it was but all of the things that she went through were what I was going through. Yeah, so that was just really awesome to hear. I’m very grateful for you guys and that I found you. I just really feel like it’s all mentally. Part of it is physical and the people who support you, but I don’t know. Meagan: Yeah, and when you hear stories that even remotely resonate or kind of follow the same path, you’re like, “Okay. I’m not alone. I’m not the only one in the world who is feeling this way or who is going through this or who might have an 11-pound baby or who had an 11-pound baby.” It’s like, “Okay. She did it. I can too.” Wendy: I can do it. Right. Yeah. Right. So that was really good to hear. Okay, so then at my next appointment– this is 39 weeks– it was again with Dr. A from the very beginning. Meagan: The one that was really supportive. Wendy: Yes and again this time, she was really supportive and I just felt really comforted by her. She was like, “You know, I kind of suggest an induction but no pressure. It’s okay. You don’t have to.” I was like, “Okay. Thank you for that.” She was like, “Leave this appointment today. You can call back if you want. Again, no pressure.” I was like, “Okay.” She checked me that day and I was 1 centimeter and 30% effaced. Baby was super high up. She was like, “Okay. It’s fine. Things can change.” I feel like I’ve done my research too and I know that can change really quickly. I was not concerned about it at all. Also, leaving that day, I felt super conflicted about an induction. I was like, “Why wait until my body goes into labor naturally? Do I do an induction?” I feel like I’ve never felt so– I don’t know. I couldn’t be at peace with either of those options. I talked to my doula and she was like, “Well, yeah. The longer you wait, your baby will get bigger. It could be harder.” I don’t know. Eventually, we talked about it. She was like, “Okay. Let’s just wait until your due date at least. Let’s just do a ton of natural induction methods.” I was like, “Okay.” I felt good about that. I was like, “Another week, I can do this.” I did a ton of things, all of the classic things– red raspberry leaf tea, dates, sex, walks, curb walking. Meagan: Working out. Wendy: Yes. All of the things, but the one thing I wasn’t going to do was the midwives’ brew because of the Cesarean. My doula was like, “That can be really intense on your uterus.” She didn’t suggest that so that’s the one thing I did not do. Let’s see. Okay. At my 40-week appointment, I met with the midwife who had just come on the month prior. She was super sweet. I liked her a lot. She was very down to earth and also very supportive of me but she pulled out the VBAC Calculator two days before my due date. Meagan: You’re like, “Really?” Wendy: Yeah. She was sweet about it. She wasn’t using it as a scare tactic. She was like, “This might make you feel better to see.” It was a 52% chance of success. “50/50.” She was trying to be more supportive about it, but I found out later that Dr. A was there and she was the one who had it printed out for her and brought it out to me so I was like, “Hmm, interesting.” I don’t know. Meagan: Dr. A was behind it. Wendy: Yes, she was. I feel like because the midwife was newer and Dr. A is the head of all the OBs there so that was interesting that she would do that. I don’t know. I just feel like it’s so outdated. Meagan: A little bait-and-switch beginning. Wendy: Yes. Yes. That was the first little red flag. I’m like, “That’s strange.” I was checked again. I was still at 1 centimeter, 30%. He was still really high up. She acted all concerned about that. I wasn’t because I was like, “I can go into labor tonight. That doesn’t really mean a whole lot.” I guess my outer cervix was still hard but the inner was soft. I don’t know. Meagan: Yeah. That is a thing too. The outer side is 2 centimeters but the inside further up is closed. Wendy: Yeah. Right. I just never heard of that but it was a huge concern for them I guess. I was like, “I don’t really know, but okay.” We started talking about an induction just because my due date was coming. They were like, “Well, maybe we can get you in tomorrow,” and then the midwife left and went and talked to the doctor who would be on-call at the hospital that day. She was like, “So, she’s not going to support you with the induction because she thinks it’s too dangerous and she thinks that a Cesarean would be the safest.” Meagan: So she was saying that she would induce. Wendy: Yeah, well this was a different one actually. I haven’t talked about this doctor. Meagan: Okay. This is a different doctor. Okay. Wendy: Yeah. Dr. B. I don’t know. Meagan; Dr. B, okay. We have Dr. A and Dr. B. Wendy: Yeah, different ones. But yeah, I was like, “Ugh.” Then we looked into the next two days because she straight up wouldn’t even– Meagan: Wouldn’t even consider it. Wendy: Yeah. She wouldn’t even consider it just because of my cervix not changing and big baby. I was really frustrated at that point, but it is what it is. We found a doctor who would support me there. Meagan: In the same practice? Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. I didn’t necessarily want a male just because I’m more comfortable with females but I was like, “If that’s the only guy that’s going to take me–” Meagan: I’ll do it. Wendy: Yeah. After that appointment, I actually felt weird and down about it. I called back to the office and I wanted to talk to Dr. A because I still had all of these positive experiences with her. I just wanted to hear what she had to say about it. She was so weird on the phone, like super short, and weird with me. She was like, “Well, you’re probably going to end up with a Cesarean. The odds are stacked against you. Your cervix hasn’t changed. Big baby.” I was really taken aback just because I had all of these really great conversations with her. I was like, “Okay. That’s kind of crappy.” I just wanted to hear– I kind of feel like I was testing her to see where she stood on this. I was like, “What would you do if baby had shoulder dystocia?” Luckily, from your podcast and other stories, I kind of know what they do if that happens. Her first response was, “Oh, we’d have to break the clavicle.” Meagan: Automatically? Wendy: Literally, I was like, “That’s your first step?” Then she went all scientific and said, “There are these other techniques and blah blah blah. We’d literally have to jump on your belly and ignore your screams.” Meagan: Jump on your belly. Wendy: Yeah. I was like, “Oh my gosh.” She was like, “And you know, you could die or your baby could die.” I was like, “Okay.” I know shoulder dystocia happens and I know it can be scary and yes you can die, but the chances of that are very slim. The fact that it was the first thing she would bring up. I’m so glad that I knew already a little bit about shoulder dystocia because if I didn’t, at that moment, I would probaby be like, “All right. Schedule the C-section because I’m not going to risk that.” Meagan: Well it sounds really bad. They’ll just have to jump. It sounds very scary. Wendy: She really said that word for word. She said, “We’ll just have to ignore your screams.” Meagan: Jump on your belly and ignore your screams. Wendy: After that, I was crying. I was so distraught about it just because I was like, “Man, the one doctor who I felt was supportive the whole time just totally bait-and-switched on me.” She was just not friendly anymore. At that point, I was like, “I’m never going to see her again.” I was just really upset. So on my actual due date, two days later, I called back to the OB office and I wanted to talk with the midwife because she had actually been sweet and kind to me the whole time. I just wanted reassurance and just someone to talk to. Meagan: Yeah, someone in your corner. Wendy: Yeah, exactly. So I called that morning at 8:30 and the lady on the phone was like, “All right, we can get you in with a phone appointment at 9:30 because she is here today.” I was like, “Awesome. That’s great.” I’m waiting for a call. It’s 10:00 and I still haven’t gotten a call so I call back. Also, to backpedal a little bit, when I first called, I was like, “Let’s schedule the induction for tomorrow.” I felt at peace with that finally so that would be Friday. She was like, “All right. We scheduled you in.” Anyway, I called back at 10:00 and I was like, “Hey, I know things can get behind, but I was supposed to have the phone appointment with the midwife. I just haven’t heard anything back. I wanted to know if it was still happening.” She was like, “Well, she’s busy now. She can’t talk with you.” I was like, “Okay.” She just kept asking, “What do you want to talk to her about?” I was like, “I don’t really want to tell you all of my fears and concerns. That’s not just a black-and-white question or a yes or no question.” She just kept pressuring me to tell her what it was. I was like, “I just want to talk to her.” She was like, “Well, you’re not going to be able to talk to her today.” Meagan: Today, at all. Wendy: I was like, “It’s my due date.” I just wanted to talk to someone. That was really crummy and I felt like if the midwife had known that I was trying to talk to her, she would have made it happen because she was super supportive so I just felt like they were doing this behind her back. I don’t know. It just felt so weird. Meagan: Yeah. Wendy: Yeah. Very strange. Meagan: A little weasely. Wendy: So actually, okay. I’ll get to this later, but the induction method that we were going to do is Dilapan which is like a Foley balloon. I think you’ve talked about it on a couple of episodes, but it would be an induction Friday and then I’d probably go into labor on Saturday. Saturday was actually my husband’s birthday so I was kind of like, “Well, maybe we should try for an induction on Saturday so that I could give birth on Sunday just so they each have their own special day.” On the phone, I was like, “Actually, do you think we could induce on Saturday?” She was like, “Well, those are only reserved for emergency cases.” I was like, “Okay. What about Monday or Tuesday?” She was like, “Well, let me go ask the doctors.” She left and went and talked to them. She came back and she was like, “They said either Friday induction or scheduled Cesarean.” Meagan: Nuh-uh. Oh my gosh. Wendy: I was like, “Oh my gosh.” That was a true bait-and-switch because I’m like, “What does one or two days change?” That was another thing that was the cherry on top. Meagan: Frustrating. Wendy: Yeah, I was just like, “Fine. I’ll do Friday.” It was funny because I felt at peace with that at some point, but now I was like, “I don’t know.” I just felt so angry about it just because it wasn’t my choice anymore. I was being forced into it. So we scheduled that. Yeah, so the next day which was Friday, we got to have a nice family day together which was good. It was relaxing. We went into the hospital Friday night at 4:00 PM and did the Dilapan which, just for people maybe listening that don’t know what that is, is kind of like a Foley balloon, but they are tiny little tampon sticks that they stick into your cervix then they take up liquid and will expand so it manually expands your cervix or opens it up and dilates it. They got seven in there. They said four onwards is typical. Before that happened though, I was 1-2 centimeters and 50% effaced. I had gotten a little bit better since a few days ago. Meagan: Yeah. Wendy: That was exciting. They ended up doing that. It was funny. I actually had a very young male student do it which I wasn’t super psyched about. He was about to do it and didn’t put lubrication on the spreader things. The person training him was like, “Umm, did you put lubrication on there?” He was like, “Oh no.” So I was super tense the whole time like, “Oh, this is the worst.” That wasn’t fun. In hindsight, I wish I would have been like, “Can I not have the student? Can I just have the RN do it?” but I’m not very good at speaking up for myself so I didn’t do that. I went home that night. It didn’t feel uncomfortable. It just felt like pressure. You can’t really feel it in there. That is the benefit, I guess, to Dilapan versus a Foley balloon because most of the time you have to be in the hospital. Meagan: Some hospitals will do it and send you home. Wendy: Yeah, that’s what I’ve heard but I don’t think it’s actually the norm. Meagan: It’s a little more rare. Yeah. It’s a little bit more rare. They kind of want to have you there so they can monitor you. Wendy: Yeah, which makes sense. I think the Dilapan is a much slower process so they can send you home. We went in that morning at 7:30 AM on Saturday. They took it out and I was at 3 centimeters and 60% effaced so it had done stuff. Meagan: Great progress, yeah. Wendy: Yeah, so I started getting Pitocin at 10:00 AM. The OB cleared me to do two units every hour. He okayed me to do 30 units which I feel is a lot. Meagan: Wow. Normally it’s 20 before they have an MFM. At least here in Utah, it gets to 20 and they have MFM come in and review. A lot of the time, IUPCs are placed so they can know exactly what’s going on and really manipulate that. Wendy: Yeah, so I was a little surprised. I didn’t reach that, but I was like, “That seems like a lot.” Meagan: Yeah. Wendy: My doula came pretty quickly after the Pitocin started. I didn’t really feel major contractions for a while there. It was nice just to have her there to talk and stuff. We did a lot of hallway walking. We took a lot of naps. I know it’s like, “You want to be active and on your feet and doing stuff.” I’m like, “I’m just tired.” I did not sleep the night prior because I thought I’d go into labor and I didn’t so I was just going on zero sleep. So we just did a lot of walking and hanging out. By 4:00 PM, I started having pretty intense contractions where I couldn’t talk through them then I maxed out on Pit at 18 units. That was my cut-off. They were consistent and good. Meagan: You didn’t need anymore. Wendy: Yes. I didn’t need 30 which was good. Meagan: Really good. Wendy: Yeah, so the doula and my husband did a ton of counterpressure pushes for me which was a game changer for me. I know the classic counterpressure is on your hips squeezing but for some reason, I wanted them to use their thumbs and push right next to my tailbone. That felt the best. Meagan: Your sacrum, yeah. Probably in that sacrum area. Wendy: They pushed super hard. They kept checking on me. “Are you sure you’re okay? Because this is really hard pushing.” Yeah. I was like, “Push harder, as hard as you can.” Meagan: I had a mom have that one time. She was like, “Can you just use your elbow?” We were like, “Okay.” Wendy: Yes. As hard as you can. It’s kind of funny actually, maybe not funny. My husband doesn’t think it’s funny. His thumbs are still kind of messed up from it. He has issues with his thumb now. Yeah. I’m like, “I’m sorry, but it was great at the moment.” Meagan: Thank you so much. Wendy: Yeah, sorry you’re maybe messed up forever. He’s like, “I need to go to the chiro for my thumbs.” Meagan: Just a reminder that you were an active participant in our son’s birth. Wendy: Exactly. So at 6:30 PM— Meagan: A couple of hours later. Wendy: Yep, I threw in the towel for hallway walking. I was like, “I’m exhausted. I just want to come back.” My doula did one more big counterpressure squeeze. My water broke and it was just the classic movie scene everywhere. So that was fun. I was like, “Yes. Finally, he’s coming.” At 8:00 PM, I was around 7-8 centimeters. I was progressing very well compared to my last kiddo. I know the rule of thumb is that usually the time is split in half for each next child so I was expecting 12 hours and this was a lot faster than 12 hours which was awesome. At 9:00 PM, I was 9 centimeters and 90% effaced. I felt super pushy. Everything in my body was like, “Push this baby out,” but I wasn’t fully dilated or effaced. They were like, “You cannot push.” That was literally the most painful thing. I don’t know. When everything in your body– it was hard. I was really shaky too. I felt a little bit nauseous at some point. Yeah. I was curled up on the side of the bed. I just couldn’t even move. I don’t know how people could keep moving through labor. I couldn’t do it. It was very painful. My doula told me to do horse lips throughout the contractions to not push. Meagan: Yep. Yeah. Wendy: Which did help. I was surprised. Meagan: Just for you guys all listening, if you are not quite progressed to a 10 and ready to push but have that urge, horse-lipping is a really, really great tool to help you avoid pushing and causing a swollen cervix or something like that. It can actually help you cope in general, but yeah. It’s a really great tool. Wendy: It was. The only thing is that every time I would take a breath, my body would start pushing again so I would take really short breaths. That was hard. My nurse also gave me a tiny comb to squeeze. At first, I was like, “That’s stupid.” But I was like, “Okay, fine.” That was my lifesaver. I held onto that thing. Meagan: It’s so amazing, right? Wendy: It is. It was a little tiny plastic one. I think it’s for the babies to brush their hair afterward to get stuff out, but maybe I should have bought one before. Maybe for my future births, I’d get a hardcore one. Meagan: Yeah, we have one just from the beauty supply store. We actually have a tall one and a short one in my doula bag so for people who have a little bit bigger hands, it’s taller. Wendy: Yeah. It is a good tool. Meagan: It’s really awesome. You know, your hand definitely feels it after depending on how tightly you squeeze but yeah. It’s a really, really great coping tool. Wendy: Yeah, for sure. It makes your brain focus on a different pain that’s a little bit more manageable. So at 10:00 PM, I was ready to go so not much longer. It felt like forever but it finally came so I was like, “Okay, let’s go.” I wanted to be on my hands and knees because from what I’ve heard, that’s the best position if baby does have shoulder dystocia so I was like, “I want that,” but baby’s heart rate would decelerate when I was in that position. They were like, “He doesn’t like that so we can’t have you there.” Yeah. I ended up on my back with my knees up and I did the pull bar with the sheet. Meagan: Yeah. I call it tug-of-war. Wendy: I was sore for days after that. My arms were so tired because I was pulling with all my strength for an hour straight. Meagan: Yes. You were literally doing assisted pull-ups. Sometimes the neck muscles hurt so if you are doing that, have your birthing partner or your doula or whoever supports the back of your neck so you’re not straining your neck. Wendy: That’s a good point. I didn’t think about that. But yeah. I didn’t really work out that much, especially not my arms. I wouldn’t have thought of that, but I’m like, “Okay. You should work out your arms next time if that happens again.” But in the moment, I did not feel that pain in my arms at all. It was just afterward. So that was awesome. They gave me a mirror, like a full-length mirror in front of me which was awesome. I loved that. Every time I pushed, I could see his head coming out. I could see his little black hair. Meagan: It can actually reduce the time of pushing because you can see. You can connect with your eyes what you are feeling. It’s really cool. Wendy: Yeah, because every time you’d have a really good push, you could see him coming out a little further. It was just very empowering. It was on wheels though and it kept moving. I was like, “I can’t see him. Move the mirror back.” But no, it was good. I had a nurse that was there that was really intense and kept yelling at me. The other ones were very soft spoken but she was like, “Keep pushing. Don’t give up.” It was really intense energy but I loved it. I needed that. Afterward, my doula was like, “I wasn’t sure if I should step in or if she was crossing any lines.” I’m like, “Oh no. I needed that woman. She was great.” I ended up birthing him at 11:03 which is funny because he ended up being 11 pounds, 3 ounces. Meagan: Stop! Wendy: Yeah. Isn’t that funny? The time. Meagan: Yeah. I was going to say the time. You were 7-8 centimeters around 7-9:00. I was 9 centimeters at 9:00. I’ve been noticing that. Wendy: Isn’t that funny? He was also the exact same weight as Isaac so I don’t know. Meagan: And born vaginally! Wendy: And on my husband’s birthday. Meagan: Yes, I was going to say on your husband’s birthday. Wendy: Yeah, so that was awesome. Meagan: So no shoulder dystocia? Wendy: No. He shot out very quickly. I guess all of the nurses were in shock that he was so giant. My doula was like, “He just kept coming out. He was so long.” She just never has seen such a big baby. She was also in shock. She was like, “This baby just kept coming and coming.” Meagan: Like, how did you fit him in there? Wendy: I don’t know. I don’t know. It’s funny though because my first guy was basically 42 weeks and this one was basically my due date so I’m like, “Man, if I did go another 2 weeks–” Meagan: 42 weeks, you might have had a 12-pounder. Wendy: At least, or 13 or something. Because I did have such a positive induction experience, I am glad that I went that route. It was good. Meagan: Yeah. Wendy: I know it could go bad as well. I’ve heard both sides of the induction story but it worked out for me and I got a healthy baby so it was all good. Meagan: So grateful, yes. Wendy: Yeah, so the next not-so-fun part of the story is that I tore really bad which is probably expected. Meagan: Because he came out so fast. Wendy: Especially because they were trying to prevent shoulder dystocia, as he was coming out, they shoved my knees up really fast. It was probably a good thing, but I think that also probably didn’t help with the tearing. They tore me apart. Note to listeners, you really don’t feel the tear. I know everyone says that and I feel like people still fear it, but you don’t feel it. Maybe later in healing and stuff, but in that moment, it’s not anything. I didn’t have an epidural either so I did feel all of it and it was fine. I got him on my chest right away. He was covered in blood. I did bleed quite a bit. They were like, “You’ve got a 3rd-degree tear. It’s pretty bad.” They started stitching me immediately so I had to give my baby to my husband. I didn’t get my golden hour which is what it is. I was just so joyous that I was able to have him vaginally that I was like, “Everything else is okay.” He’s here. He’s safe. Meagan: Yeah. That mattered to me so much that it’s okay. Wendy: Yeah. Our time will come. It was actually the RN that was stitching me, not the OB doctor. Meagan: That’s interesting. Wendy: He didn’t even step close to me. He was off in the dark corner. They had a spotlight on me. The room was dark. Meagan: Interesting. Wendy: Yeah, so it was this RN. The stitching took an hour and a half. She did not seem very confident is what my doula said. She’s been to a ton and she was like, “She just seemed like she was stressed out about it.” She was confused that my OB never stepped in. In hindsight, she wishes she had gone to my OB and been like, “You need to take over.” Meagan: “Hey, what’s going on here?” Wendy: Yeah. I get that they need to learn how to do these things, but you should be watching her. Meagan: It’s weird. I’ve never seen an RN. Wendy: Yeah, well that’s great. I didn’t have the greatest experience come to find out. It was an hour and a half. I felt so much of it. I could feel the needles. They were giving me lidocaine shots. Obviously, you can feel the shot going in but it wasn’t numbing anything. I probably didn’t feel it 100% but I felt it enough that I was not comfortable at all. They were like, “Just stop moving. I’m like, “I can’t. I’m in so much pain right now.” So they did a ton of lidocaine shots then they were like, “Well, do you want to do the nitrous oxide?” I was like, “I guess so,” but that doesn’t make the pain go away. It just makes you feel high. I still felt it so they tried putting some pain stuff in my IV and that also didn’t really do anything so I just kind of sucked it up for the hour and a half. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Wendy: Yeah, it was super long. Then at the very end for some reason– I was at the very end. They checked my rectum and they were like, “Oh, you have another tear up there. We’re going to have to undo all of it and redo it.” Meagan: *Gasp* Oh, no. Wendy: Because it was so deep and internal that they couldn’t get to it. I was like, “Oh, that’s great. Awesome.” So they were like, “Well, we should probably take you to the OR to do it because it’s just too much.” Yeah, I didn’t want to go through that again. That’s what we decided on. The anesthesiologist came in. He was on the phone and sounded kind of stressed out. He looked at the lidocaine bottles on the table and was panicking about it. He was like, “I just don’t have any options left,” is what he said on the phone. My doula was saying that they probably gave me way too much lidocaine. There was too much in my body that he was trying to figure out the numbers. Meagan: How he could, yeah. Wendy: Right. I don’t know. How he could be able to take me into the OR? So that wasn’t fun. He came in later and he said, “So spinal tap or general anesthesia?” We went with a spinal tap so I could nurse baby right afterward. It was kind of crappy though because it felt like I was getting another C-section because I went to the OR. I got a spinal tap. It felt like it was happening again which is what it is. Oh, before I got wheeled off, this nurse came in and she was like, “Here’s a consent form for you to sign to give your baby formula.” It wasn’t even a question. She was just like, “Sign it.” I looked at my doula because I was like, “I don’t want that?” She was like, “Can you just give her 10 minutes to nurse her baby before we go in the OR?” The nurse was like, “Yeah, it’s fine.” Meagan: Oh my gosh. Wendy: She was annoyed by it. I was like, “Okay. It’s not going to take that long.” So I was able to nurse him. He latched really well. He was a great nurser. Meagan: Good. Wendy: That was nice. I went to the OR. It took maybe an hour or an hour and a half, then afterward, as soon as he was getting hungry, they were able to join me in whatever the room is that you go to after. Meagan: Yeah, like mom and baby. Yeah. Yeah. Wendy: Yeah, so that was great. Oh, and then the RN came to me later. She was like, “Actually, it’s really great that we took you to the OR because you did have some retained placenta in you.” I’m like, “Oh, that’s good. I just wish we had done that first instead of the other stitching.” Yeah, so Levi ended up being super healthy. They kept track of his glucose of course because he was big. He was fine. All was good. It was a very redemptive birth. Meagan: Absolutely. Wendy: It was way better than I could have ever imagined. It was just awesome. Now I could prove people wrong who thought I couldn’t birth an 11-pound baby with my first but I’m like, “I did it.” Meagan: Yes. “I did do it.” Wendy: It is possible. The day that I was going to be discharged, Dr. A was supposed to be there, or was there, and the whole day before, I was like, “I’m so excited to be like, ‘I did this even after you tried to scare me’”, but she never showed up so that was great. Meagan: Maybe she didn’t really want to be told she was wrong. Wendy: Yeah, probably not but I hope I see her one day so I can tell her that I did it. Meagan: Yes. I’m sure she knows. I’m sure she knows. Wendy: I know. Maybe she would still stand by what she said. I don’t know. Meagan: Yes. Well, congratulations. Huge congratulations. The medical term for big baby or macrosomia is so hard because researchers show that it’s 8 pounds, 13 ounces up to 9 pounds, 15 ounces, and then babies are called extremely large if they weigh more than 11 pounds. So congratulations on having an extremely large baby. Wendy: Oh, thank you. Okay, I want to share one more little thing. I had a friend who was due a week before me that also had a C-section with her first and then she was also trying for a VBAC so the whole time we were encouraging each other and stuff. She wrote me this letter afterward and I wanted to share it because it was really sweet. I’ve always been so passionate about birth, especially with a home birth. We are planning for a home birth with my last baby. I’ve done a lot of research and I’ve heard a lot of stories so I would always tell her those things. I thought it was just talking, but anyway, I’m going to read this little card because it just made me feel really good that your words do matter especially with birthing. She said, “I will forever be grateful for your friendship. I would not have had the confidence to go through the process of fighting for my right to have the birth that I wanted. I will forever credit your friendship as the reason that I had my VBAC and for that, I can’t thank you enough.” So yeah, that was really sweet and gave me the power to be like, “All right. I’m just going to keep sharing my story.” I was really grateful that I was able to be on your show, so thank you. Meagan: Thank you. Thank you so much and congratulations to you and your friend. Yeah, thank you so much for sharing this because we know that so many times, people are left in that corner of defeat of, “Oh, I guess I’ll just schedule a C-section.” Wendy: Right. Right, but there are options. There are always options. Meagan: Yep. Closing Would you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan’s bio, head over to thevbaclink.com . Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link. 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