About this episode
Petra joins us today from Modesto, California sharing her unmedicated, hospital VBA3C story! Petra learned and grew from each of her three C-section births which paved the way for her to manifest the birth of her dreams with her fourth. Though she had very little support around her, Petra stayed steady. She continued to prepare her heart, mind, and body for the physiological birth she knew she could have. She tuned out the negativity. She trusted the path she knew she was supposed to take. Petra was thrilled to experience labor when the time came. She knew what to do. Her education and preparation paid off. She labored hard at home and went to the hospital when it felt right. Two hours later, Petra was crying tears of joy with a sweet baby on her chest. Petra is forever changed by her empowering birth experience and has now dedicated her heart’s work to helping other women do the same. Additional Links Petra’s Website The VBAC Link Blog: VBAC After 3 C-sections Needed Website How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents Full Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello, hello. I hope you guys had a wonderful Thanksgiving. We are back with another story for you. Today we have a VBAC-after-multiple-Cesareans story. In fact, it is a VBAC after three which is a little bit harder to find information on and to find support for. We have our friend, Petra– look, I almost did it. Petra. I asked her before the episode. Pay-tra? Petra? I had a neighbor, so in my head, it just went, “Pay-tra”. Anyway, hello, hello. Welcome. Petra: Thank you. I’m so happy to be here. Meagan: Yes, so happy. You are from California. Is that correct? Petra: I am, yes. Meagan: Was your VBAC after three C-sections in California? Petra: Yes. Meagan: I feel like especially when we have VBAMC, we have so many people writing in saying, “Where did this person go and where are they located? Because if they are in my area, I need to find that provider or I need to research.” It sucks, but we don’t get the support after multiple Cesareans more often than not. Of course, through your episode, feel free to share and name-blast anyone in a positive way of course. Send those names out to the audience because I’m sure that they will want to research your provider. Review of the Week Okay, so as always, we have a quick review. This is by cve18 and it was actually written in 2020. It says, “Gave me courage. This podcast is everything I needed to switch to a supportive instead of a tolerant provider at 28 weeks pregnant. The education and information I have learned is immeasurable. I have been researching and discussing with my husband to get a doula and all of the things to help me get a successful VBAC in December. Thank you for all of the things and I know I will have done everything I could for my future VBAC.” Thank you so much for your review and as always, you guys, we are always loving your reviews. You can go to Google. You can go to Apple Podcasts. Wherever you can, drop us a review because it may be read on the next podcast. Petra’s Stories I just want to tell people a little bit more about you. Guys, she is a birth doula and if you haven’t noticed on this podcast, we love doulas. She is a birth doula, a birth educator, an advocate for VBAC, and a birth coach who had the most transformative vaginal birth after three C-sections. She now works with women who are ready to strengthen their authenticity and help them not only become healthier mentally, but have the pregnancy, birth, and postpartum experience they’ve dreamt of without feeling the fear and or inhibit– Oh my gosh. How do I say the word? How do I say the word? Petra: Oh my gosh. I think I need to change that word. Meagan: Inhibitions. Petra: So they don’t feel— Meagan: So they don’t feel– Petra: Inhibited. Meagan: Inhibited. Yeah. I couldn’t spit it out. Okay, and hold them back. Okay. We’re back on track. Okay. She wants to help women reclaim the power that they already possess. That right there, I just love that. Women of Strength, I want you to know this. You have the power. You already possess it. This is why I love this so much. You are reclaiming the power that you already possess so we can help break the cycle. Right? Let’s break the cycle that is no longer serving us. The cycles are no longer serving us. That introduction– I’m sorry. You wrote that. I just read what you wrote and apparently couldn’t even read what you wrote, but that is so powerful. So thank you. Thank you for writing that. Petra: Yeah, of course. I just feel like these are all barriers that I had. Going through each one of my pregnancies up until my VBAC and now in my support of clients that I have, it’s huge. It’s a huge barrier. So if it’s okay, I’m going to start placing you in my story. Meagan: Yes. Yes. Petra: Okay, so it all started. I was a teen mom. I had my daughter a month before I turned 17. I was 16. Obviously, it wasn’t planned but it happened and it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Even though I had zero support from family and a lot of people, I went on to– let’s just go straight to the labor. I was in labor for a couple of hours. I went to the hospital. I rushed there because that’s what I see in the movies. Meagan: Right. That’s what we’re taught. Even today, that’s what we’re told by our providers. You have contractions. Your water breaks. You come in. Petra: Yes. Exactly, so that’s what we did. I took a shower and rushed to the hospital. I got there. They stuck me on monitors and told me to stay in bed so that they could see the baby on the monitors and make sure baby is doing okay. I didn’t know any better. I didn’t educate myself. I was a teenager. I was so scared and I had no idea what to expect other than what I had seen in media, movies, and all of the stuff. I never really talked about what could happen with my mom or anything like that. I was just like, “I know what I’m doing.” I was that person. “I’ve got this. My body was made to do this. It will just know what to do.” Well, yes it does, but when you are in a hospital setting and they have certain policies or expectations for how your labor should go, it’s different. So yeah. I was hooked up to the monitors. I was there maybe 6 or 8 hours. I didn’t progress past a 4 for a couple of hours and they told me, “Okay, the baby’s heart is dipping. We’ve got to get to an emergency Cesarean.” Meagan: Whoa. Petra: I was like, “Whoa, what?” I was just so taken aback. I didn’t understand because it was like all of a sudden, everyone was rushing. I’m like, “What is happening?” She’s like, “Your baby is in distress. We have to take you to an emergency Cesarean.” I was like, “Okay,” because she said, “You don’t want your baby to die, right?” I was like, “Of course, not.” I mean, who wants their baby to die? Come on. That’s horrible language to give to somebody. Meagan: Yeah. Those words matter. Petra: Yes. Yes. Oh yeah. I mean, look. My daughter is 18 now and that’s ingrained in my brain forever. Anyway, I went back for the Cesarean and once we got in there, nothing was an emergency. Everything was slow. I was like, “Wasn’t this an emergency? Aren’t you guys in a hurry?” I could hear the doctors talking to each other as they were opening me up and everything. They were talking about, “Oh, now I’ll get to make my dinner, my dinner plans.” Meagan: They were saying that out loud? Petra: Yes. Meagan: Oh, I don’t like that. Petra: Yes. They were talking to each other. I was just like, “Am I really hearing this right now?” I was like, “Oh gosh.” So anyway, I was so drugged up. I was in this fog. They were like, “Here’s your baby.” I didn’t even know what was happening. They brought this baby to me wrapped up in a million blankets. All you could see was literally the little circle of her face. You couldn’t see any other body part of her. I was like, “Oh, okay.” They were like, “Oh, kiss your baby,” and brought her to my face. I was strapped down to the bed. It was horrible. I was like, “This sucks. This is weird. What? This is birth? I don’t like it.” But after I had my daughter, I was so obsessed with her once all of the drugs wore off. It was blissful in the sense that I just loved her completely. It was a hard postpartum recovery because you had a major abdominal surgery. I didn’t plan for any postpartum support. I was just flying by the seat of my pants. We had a nonexistent breastfeeding journey because I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t know who to call to get help but we just made it through. You know, you just get through it. I want to fast forward to my next birth. My daughter was about 8 years– no. Yeah. 8 years later– 10 years later. Oh my gosh, my brain. 10 years later, I was with my then-husband– well, now husband and we got pregnant. Then at my 20-week ultrasound, my doctor was like, “You have placenta previa. You have to have a C-section.” I wanted to have a VBAC, but once she said that she was like, “It’s a non-negotiable. You cannot.” Meagan: At 20 weeks though? Petra: Yes. Yes. She was like, “It’s fully covering your cervix. There’s nothing we can do. It’s not going to move.” I was like, “Well, okay.” In my head, I’m like, “Well, you know best. You’re the doctor.” I didn’t do my research. I didn’t realize that it could move and at the 20-week mark, that’s not really a good gauge for your placenta staying that way. So anyway, I did end up having her at 36 weeks. It was a planned Cesarean. Meagan: 36? Petra: Yes, because I had a little bit of spotting. It was literally a couple of drops of blood and the doctor was like, “Oh no. We need to have the C-section right now. This is an emergency.” It was crazy. I just felt like everything was a whirlwind and everything was telling me, “I had to. I had to.” There was no other choice given to me and no other option. I just believed in the medical system so much because I have a lot of family that is in the medical system. Anyway, we did it and then for my third baby, so going on to my next daughter, this was four years later. She was a planned Cesarean because my doctor said, “We don’t support VBAC. We have a VBAC ban at this hospital. We won’t. We’ll turn you away.” I was just like, “What?” I just was so confused at all of this language being thrown at me. So she was like, “This is the safest route for you. Your uterus could rupture. Your baby could die.” All of the language is horrible to tell a mom who– of course, you don’t want your baby to die or anything bad to happen to them. Meagan: You’ve been told now twice about emergencies and that your baby could die. Petra: Yes. Meagan: Ugh, I don’t like that. Petra: Right. You know, talking to my husband, he was like, “Well, if the doctor says it’s the safest route, I guess.” So we did have a planned Cesarean at 39 weeks. But you know, with that pregnancy, I felt like I was ready to give birth at the end. I was like, “Oh my gosh. I feel so good. I feel like I could really have her. We had already scheduled the C-section and my husband was like, “Well, let’s just do it. We know what to expect.” I was like, “I guess.” Everybody in my family was like, “I think that is safest for you. That’s probably the best option.” Nobody really even has C-sections in my family. Everybody gave birth vaginally so they hear C-section and they’re like, “Well, you can’t,” because they heard the “once a C-section, always a C-section.” We just had her. It’s rough. Every C-section I had, I felt so disconnected from my babies. The breastfeeding journey was hard or nonexistent and I just felt broken. I was like, “What is wrong with my body? Why can’t I do this?” It felt so heartbreaking because you’re a woman and your body is made to give birth so when doctors say, “No, your body can’t,” you’re like, “Wait, what?” You feel like you should trust them because they see birth so often. After that birth experience, we decided we wanted to have one more baby. I told my husband, “Absolutely not do I want to have another C-section.” I said, “I don’t care what it takes. I’m going to prepare my mind and body and I’m doing this.” Because we also were going to have the babies two years apart, so I was like, “I don’t want to be running after a toddler and having a major abdominal surgery.” Meagan: Right. Petra: Once I started diving into the VBAC world, I found your podcast and was binging it like crazy. Meagan: Oh. Petra: It was so helpful hearing all of the positive stories of women succeeding in their VBAC goal. I hate to even put it that way because of course, we all want to have that VBAC if we are planning for it, but if you don’t have it, it’s not that you fail so I hate even putting that language towards it. It’s just nice hearing those stories where they did it. I listened to all of those stories and I tried to find providers. This was before I was even pregnant. I couldn’t. First off, obviously, I started with my OB who delivered my other two babies. She was like, “Absolutely not. This is dangerous. You could die. Your baby could die. Your uterus can rupture.” All the words. All the words. I was just like, “Oh my gosh. Here we go again,” but this time, I was educating myself. I was going full force into what I wanted to accomplish and that was my VBAC. Once we did get pregnant, I started calling midwives and doctors in the area. I called my local ICAN group and I got in touch with the ICAN leader. She referred me to all of the providers in my area and outside of my area that supported VBAC after three C-sections. After that, I found nobody supportive in my area. But I knew– Meagan: But they were on the list or they were just in your area? Petra: Yeah. After talking to my husband and discussing our options, we decided that it was not in our best interest to have to drive 4-6 hours outside of where we live because we have three other children. Meagan: Right, the logistics. Petra: Yes, work and at the time, we had just moved. We moved into this home where our rent was now three times what we were used to. It was a little tight and before this, I didn’t know about Be Her Village. I am all up in Be Her Village’s world now. Meagan: Oh my gosh. I love Be Her Village. Petra: Me too. Meagan: I love Kaitlin and her crew. Oh my gosh. Petra: Yes. I tell all of my clients and everybody. I shout it from the mountaintops, “Check out Be Her Village. If you want support, go to them. Go to them. Go to them.” Anyway, I wish I would have known about them back then. We are there now. We decided that we were just going to do what we could with what we had. I switched providers. I think I was about 30 weeks by the time I was able to switch insurances because I had to switch insurances and I wanted to switch to Kaiser. In my area, it’s Kaiser Modesto. I knew they were supportive of vaginal birth after two C-sections so I was like, “Oh, okay. That’s only one less than I had and maybe it will be supportive.” I went forward with that. I went to my first doctor’s appointment and I told the lady, “I’m having a VBAC,” and she was like, “Absolutely not. That is ridiculous.” I was like, “Well, I’m doing this. I understand your concern. I already know what you’re going to say because I’ve heard it all before. I’m planning to do this, so this is what I’m doing.” She was like, “We need to schedule your C-section. I have to do it.” I was like, “I’m not going to show up. You can schedule it all you want, but I’m not going to go.” Meagan: You have to do it. Petra: Yes. Meagan: Have to. Petra: All of the have-to’s. After that, I had another appointment with her and she said the same thing, “Let’s schedule your C-section,” right when I walked it. I was just like, “No. I already told you last time that I’m not going to show up. You can schedule it but I’m not going to go in.” She said, “Well, now I have to refer you to the maternal-fetal medicine doctor.” I was like, “Why?” She was like, “Because you’re high risk and you’re planning to do a high-risk thing, so I have to give you to them.” I was like, “Okay, that’s fine.” So I went after that. I met with him and he told me all of the same things. I said, “I totally understand. I respect your opinion, but I’m still going to do what I’m going to do and nobody’s going to sway my mind. I’m planning this and it’s going to happen.” He was like, “Okay. It seems like you have your mind made up. I told you the risks and that’s all I can do.” I was like, “Okay.” Literally after that, I saw a different doctor at every single appointment, and at every single appointment I went to, they all told me the same thing even though I told them what I was doing. It was the same and everything. It felt defeating in a sense. Meagan: I’m thinking too if you continue to hear it time after time after time after time, I feel like some self-doubt can start creeping in and being like, “Well, okay. Everyone is saying I shouldn’t do this. Should I be doing this? Is this the right choice? Am I being selfish?” All of those questions, right? Petra: Oh yeah. That’s exactly what crept into my mind after every appointment. My husband was working at the time. He wasn’t able to come to appointments with me which was fine. But I would call him after every appointment and I would cry. I would tell him, “Am I making the right decision? I feel in my heart I am, but it’s hard when somebody keeps telling you no, no, no, no, no.” He was like, “If you feel like it’s right, I support you and you’re doing the right thing. Who gives a crap what they say?” He’s like, “They’re nobody.” I was just like, “I know.” Once I started working on my mindset, I really dove into mindset work and started working on it literally daily. Meagan: You have to almost though. Petra: Yes. I was preparing my mind to be okay with the decision that I was making because those doubts crept in and I had to really sit with myself and ask myself, “Okay. What is the worst thing that could happen? What is the best thing that could happen?” I had to really sit with each of those and decide which one I could live with. In my mind, I couldn’t sit with living with the, “What if?” Meagan: The what if? Petra: What if I did do it? What if I did succeed but I’ll never know because I didn’t try? I had to sit with my husband and talk to him about the risks and everything and make sure that we were both on board. I feel like if you’re going forward with this type of decision that most people are going to say is dumb, is scary, is irresponsible, then you have to make sure that you have a support system that supports you 100%. I felt very confident in my husband’s support. He was like, “If you feel confident in this decision, I trust your judgment.” That to me, was everything because we are a team. We created this baby together. I want to make decisions about this baby together. Of course, ultimately, I’m going to do what I’m going to do and he knows that. When I set my mind to something, it’s going to happen. So yeah, we made the decision collectively and at first, I told a couple of people what I was doing like family and friends and then a couple of them were like, “You should just have a C-section. You’ve already had three. Don’t you have a zipper that they can just zip and unzip?” Meagan: Okay, why do people think that? My husband said the same thing. He said, “Why can’t we just go unzip you?” I’m like, “I am not a pair of jeans!” Petra: Yes. Yes. It was– oh my gosh. Meagan: I get it. Petra: It was so crazy. I was just like, “This is my body. It’s not just a toy or a backpack that you can unzip. It’s a major surgery.” Meagan: Exactly. Yep. Petra: It’s a major surgery that affects you not only physically, your physical body, but your mentality, your spirituality, and everything. Everything. I stopped telling people what I was doing. I only told a handful of people that I knew would support me 100% and then I stopped telling anybody because I did not want to continue to hear all of the negative language that was feeding into my brain. If it did come in, that negative talk or whatever, I just blocked it out. I said, “Nope. I don’t want to hear it. I don’t want to hear it.” I feel like that really helped. That really helped. Meagan: It’s actually really healthy. It’s okay to do that. I did something very similar where I was like, “I love you and you’re my people every day, but right now, you’re not my person.” That’s okay. I might have to accept that. I still love them, but they’re not my people when it comes to talking about birth and having the support that I need. Petra: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Meagan: That included some of my family members and that was really hard. Oh yeah. I felt that too because I wanted to share this journey with them, but since I knew that they were not going to be supportive, I was like, “You know what? I’m just going to do it and then afterward, I’ll go, ‘Hey, look at what I did!’” I literally visualized my birth. This was one thing that I felt was pivotal. I would sit in quiet and calm and I would literally visualize every single part of my birth from start to finish. The labor, the pushing, and bringing my baby earthside. I would envision what it would smell like, what it would look like, who would be around me, and what it would feel like. The emotions I would experience once my baby came out and I was holding him on my chest. It makes me emotional thinking about it. Meagan: It’s okay. We were crying on last week’s episode too. Petra: It was so transformational for me because it wasn’t just the fact that I gave birth vaginally. It was the fact that I believed in myself. I advocated for myself. I stood up for myself for what I believed in and as a recovering people-pleaser– I am a self-proclaimed recovering people-pleaser. I don’t like to go against the grain. I don’t like people to be upset with me. I don’t like them to not like me. That was really, really hard but you know what? Meagan: Because you were doing all of those things– going against the grain, not pleasing people, not doing what they said, and maybe even shutting people out. Petra: Yeah. Yeah. It was really hard. I’m a very open and honest person, so like you said, shutting people out was hard because I wanted to share this beautiful journey with them. Fast forward to when I hired a doula because I researched all of the things and on one of your blog posts, it says, “How You Can Be Successful in Having a VBAC” and one of the things was to hire a doula. Yes. Get that support team. Meagan: Absolutely. Petra: Build your support team. So that’s what I did. I hired a doula and she had never supported anybody with any VBACs but she was totally on board. She was like, “I’m totally with you. Let’s do this.” I felt really confident in my support system that I had on board. Let’s fast forward to labor. I had prodromal labor and it lasted from Friday night until I went to my next 40-week appointment which was on that Monday. I had prodromal labor for a couple of days. Meagan: That’s exhausting. Petra: It is exhausting. I tried really hard to just get through it. I didn’t want any interventions. That was my plan. I wanted to just go unmedicated and make sure nothing was introduced that didn’t need to be introduced. So I went to my doctor’s appointment. She was like, “Oh, are you okay if I check you?” I was like, “I guess so.” She was like, “Well, you’re 2 centimeters. I can do a membrane sweep.” I was so tired. I originally didn’t want that, but I was like, “Go ahead and do it.” Looking back, I wouldn’t do it again, but at the time, plans can change. Meagan: Right. Plans can change. Yes. Petra: Yeah. So anyway, after that, oh my gosh. It was on. I was in full-blown labor after that. It was incredible. I was so excited and looking forward to my labor. I couldn’t wait. I couldn’t wait to be in labor because I knew I was going to do this amazing thing. I was in labor and I was like, “Oh my gosh. I’m excited.” My husband was like, “You’re so weird.” It was painful. I had back labor which I wasn’t expecting. That was intense. I even felt it through my thighs which I wasn’t expecting either. I literally needed hip squeezes through every single contraction. But it felt manageable. I felt like I could handle it. I felt powerful through it. Between every contraction, I was smiling. I was laughing. I was having great conversations with everybody around me. I labored at my home and my family ended up coming. My mom, my brother, my sister. My nephew was there and my kids were there. Obviously, my husband was there too and it was beautiful. It wasn’t planned that way. The plan was to labor at home, but all of my family coming that way was not planned and it was perfect. They were helping me. They were doing hip squeezes on me. They were talking to me between contractions and it just felt so blissful. It felt right. It felt perfect. I labored like that. 9 AM started the active labor and then by about 5-6:00 PM, it was mentioned, “Hey, should we go to the hospital?” We never talked about it beforehand when I wanted to go, but people kept asking, “Do you want to go?” It was pretty intense. I hit transition and I knew that because I was shaking when I was sitting on the toilet. Dilation station. Meagan: It’s a real station. It does exist. Petra: Mhmm. I agree. Yes. Yes. After that, we headed to the hospital. I think it was 6:00 PM and then everything becomes a blur. We got to the hospital and immediately went up. They were like, “You can’t be in active labor.” I was talking and laughing. They were like, “Okay, can we check you?” I was like, “Okay.” I can’t remember what they said. I was either 9 or 10 centimeters. They were like, “Oh my gosh. How are you this far along?” Meagan: and chatting. Petra: Yeah. It was perfect. I was in the zone. Everything felt perfect. They got me into a room and we started doing different positions to try to help my back labor. At one point, they offered to break my water because I guess I had a bulging bag. At first, I didn’t want that, but of course, in the moment, I was like, “I don’t care, if you need to.” I was trying to focus on the task at hand. They did end up breaking my water and after that, everything was insanely intense. The contractions were more intense. They felt closer together and by 9:00 PM, I was like, “I need to push or I need to do something.” I just felt like I couldn’t get comfortable anymore. I was like, “I’m going to start pushing.” I started pushing and they brought everybody in quickly. I was like, “Oh my gosh. Everybody is rushing in.” Then I pushed five times they said, and he flew out. Meagan: Oh, so everyone was seeing something and they were like, “Oh, this baby is coming.” Petra: Yes. Yes. I remember that they did bring the mirror in. They brought the mirror in real quick so I could see. I guess they were thinking it might take a little bit longer and I needed encouragement but anyway, no. It was really fast. I pulled him up out of me and onto my chest. It was like I literally manifested that birth because that’s literally how I dreamt about it happening, literally. Meagan: Baby coming out, just flying out. Petra: Yeah. Yeah. No, it was perfect. After that, you have that oxytocin dump and I felt like I was in a dream. I was just so happy. I cried. I laughed. I was thanking God. I was like, “Oh my gosh.” It was so emotional and so beautiful. You know, the recovery is like night and day. I was up and walking, going to the bathroom and I didn’t have an IV. I didn’t have an epidural. I didn’t have anything on board so I was able to just move and I was discharged less than 24 hours later. Meagan: That’s the best. It’s so nice when it can just be quick and you go home and can be in your space. Acclimate together. Petra: Mhmm. Meagan: So when they got there, I mean you were that progressed. You were really calm. Things were happening. Did anyone say, “Hey, we need to have the OB come in and talk to you,” or were they actually supportive? Because through this whole prenatal, you’ve been hounded as, “No, no, no. Why would you do such a thing?” I was just curious. Did they seem more supportive? Petra: Oh yeah. I didn’t touch on that, but yeah. When I went in there and especially after they checked me, they were like, “Oh my gosh. Let’s do this. Let’s have a baby.” They were all excited. It was no doctor I had ever seen. It was a traveling OB so I don’t even know where he was from but he was there on-call and then there was a student doctor. I don’t know what he was but he was a student. He was actually the one who was there that helped bring my baby to my chest alongside my midwife. So yeah. There was a midwife there and then that training OB, they were together right there. Everybody was super supportive. My nurses were amazing. I will never forget her name. Her name was Brita. She was like, “I’m so proud of you. You’re doing amazing.” She was so incredible. Of course, my doula was amazing too. She was helping me through everything and had all of the things with her that helped with lavender scents, keeping the lights dimmer, and just keeping that atmosphere calm and cool. My husband was there too. He’s cool as a cucumber anyway. He’s so go with the flow and afterward, we talked about it and he was like, “I was ready once those doctors were right there checking you. I was ready to jump in and be like, ‘She’s having her VBAC!’ but I didn’t have to say anything. Everybody was so supportive and so sweet to you.” Meagan: Good. Petra: Then afterward, it was almost like I was a celebrity. Nurses were bringing other nurses in and they were like, “She was only here for two hours and she had her baby and she had three C-sections.” Yeah. It was amazing. Meagan: Do you know what you did? You changed their mental perspective. You changed a whole bunch of people’s mental perspectives. Think about what you did for the student. VBAC after multiple C-sections, especially three, isn’t widely studied because it’s not happening. Petra: Right. Meagan: So for that provider to come and start right in the school world and training and be like, “Oh, actually I saw that happen and it happened really well and it was okay. Baby was okay. It is possible,” then maybe, just maybe– I don’t know about that provider. Some providers that are in training don’t even go to OB land, right? They are going to some other specialty and that is just their clinical, but hopefully, it will help some other future Woman of Strength who is going in and wanting that whether that be him or her or someone that they talked to, just changing the perspective. Look at what you have done. How amazing. You didn’t just have a VBAC after three C-sections, right? Petra: No, it doesn’t just feel like that. It feels like so much more. Honestly, I’m forever changed by this experience. Meagan: Absolutely. I understand that. Petra: It helped me. And honestly, I feel like even if I did have a C-section, I planned for it if I did end up having one. I had a plan set aside. I didn’t put any energy towards it, but I had that plan just in case so I could have my preferences honored in that situation, but it helped educate me. I am so educated now. It threw me into the birth world. I had always been obsessed with birth, but I didn’t know where I fit in. I went to school and was going to become a labor and delivery nurse, but once I got into the classes and everything, I was like, “This is not for me. This is not where I belong.” It just didn’t feel right. I never knew about doulas. Once I had this experience, I was like, “I know where I belong.” This work sets such a fire off inside of me. Oh my gosh. I am supporting a couple of VBAC after two C-section clients right now. We are preparing for their birth and it’s so exciting to me. I’ve never been so excited about work ever in my life until I hit this point. It’s so amazing to see somebody switch mentally from being fearful to feeling empowered. It’s not that I’m giving them that power. We all have that power inside of us. It’s just somewhere along the way, it’s been dimmed. I’m there to help them find that again. It feels so good when somebody is so confident in themselves and makes that transformation. No matter how their birth unfolds, they can feel good about it because they know that they are educated. They know what they plan for. It’s not the fact that the plan goes exactly how you planned it. It’s the fact that they educated themselves enough to be able to advocate for what they do or don’t want. Meagan: Yes. Petra: That’s huge. Meagan: Yes. I mean, I can relate on so many levels. It’s crazy how the things you are saying, I’m like, “Oh my gosh. That was me. That was me.” I wanted to be a L&D nurse. I wanted to do that. I didn’t even start the classes. I didn’t even get to that. This is so bad to admit. I was like, “That’s way too much math. Nope. I’m not doing that. No.” Then I had my second C-section and I wanted a VBAC. I was like, “Ugh.” I wasn’t in a place where I was mad necessarily. I wasn’t happy that I had a second C-section, but I wanted more. I wanted to support. I felt that desire. I felt that burning in my body that was like, “I want to help people.” Just hearing you talk, I’m like, “That was me.” That was me in 2014. I can just feel your energy so much and so will your clients. You’re going to change your clients’ lives. Like you said, no matter what the outcome is, they’re going to feel supported and loved and educated along the way and that is powerful. Petra: Yes. Yes, exactly. That’s what I’m here for. I feel like I’m here to just help be their cheerleader. You can do anything if you set your mind to it. I know that sounds so cliche. Meagan: I know, but it’s true. Petra: Yeah. Yeah. It just makes me feel so good to know that I can help in any kind of way. I’ve always been this helper anyway. I’ve done in-home CNA work so my heart is in service. That’s where I feel the best, so yeah. It’s just amazing. I feel like also, the most important thing is just trusting yourself. Trust yourself to make the decision and not that it necessarily has to be the right decision to what everybody says is the right decision, but whatever feels right to you and staying true to yourself. We see all of these people on social media and it’s easy to get caught up in what they’re doing and it’s staying authentic to ourselves and bringing that into your journey because not everybody’s journey is going to be the same. I feel like that’s so important to showcase, so yeah. Meagan: It is. Yes. I love that so, so, so much. I wanted to quickly talk a little bit about VBAC bans and multiple Cesareans, just what to do if you are in a situation like this. I feel like you touched on all of these things that you’ve done and I just love your journey. I love your journey so much. If you’re running into a VBAC ban, and one of the things that you did too not necessarily for this purpose, get in contact with your local ICAN groups. See what information they have on local hospitals and their policies and see what they can do to help. Write a letter to the hospital. Write a letter to the state’s medical board. I know that sounds crazy, but we are the ones who are going to be able to change this future. Doulas, we’re loving. We’re supporting. We’re educating, but then also as VBAC parents ourselves, we have– I don’t want to say a duty, but we have this power to start making a change by not letting every single provider bully you into something you know in your heart is not correct. To continue to reclaim that power and stop letting that light be dimmed as you were saying earlier, right? Petra: Exactly. Meagan: Let’s light up the world. Let’s light up the world. We have to light ourselves up first. We have to be fully lit before we can help others light. Petra: Yeah. I just want to touch on something real quick. The VBAC ban drives me insane. Meagan: Me too. Petra: They say they don’t want to do it because they can’t support an emergency situation for a VBAC, but what if a person goes in there in labor and she needs an emergency or if it’s a true emergency situation and they can’t give her a C-section? I’m sorry. That just doesn’t sit well with me. I would go to a different hospital completely. Meagan: I know. I mean, ACOG recommends that VBAC is a great option for women and they can have it at any hospital location that is a level 1 facility or higher which is pretty much any hospital. Me too. I have such feelings about it. Such feelings. If you are a VBAC multiple Cesarean, check out our VBAC after multiple Cesareans blog. We’ll make sure to attach it here in the show notes and it will go over some of the studies. What’s hard is after two Cesareans, we don’t really have a ton of really solid, hardcore evidence showing that your chances of rupture really do increase this much because it’s not happening. It’s not being offered. Look at how many providers shot you down. I’m a VBAC after two Cesareans and I went to 12 providers before I found the right provider for me. They didn’t all necessarily say, “Absolutely not,” but they didn’t necessarily say, “Yeah. Go for it,” either. They weren’t cheering me on. It was, “Well, you can try,” or “Well, if you were my wife, I probably wouldn’t suggest it, but I’m not their wife so sure. Go ahead.” It’s so annoying that we don’t have this information, but it is possible and you are living proof. Petra: Yes, definitely. Meagan: Oh, well thank you so much for being here and sharing your stories. Petra: Of course. Of course. I would be so happy if this touches just one person and it helps anybody. Meagan: It will. Petra: I would love to share my story with anybody. Anybody, feel free to connect with me. I just love talking about anything birth and VBAC. That is my heart's work. Meagan: Yes, well tell people where they can find you. Petra: Yes. I am on Instagram at Birthing Come True. The name comes from my birth coming true and also my website is birthingcometrue.com. If you basically type that in anywhere, you’ll find me. Yeah. Meagan: Awesome. Thank you so much. Petra: Of course. Thank you for having me. I’m so happy to be there. Meagan: Absolutely. Closing Would you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan’s bio, head over to thevbaclink.com . Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donations Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands