About this episode
“I feel that what I would like to add to this radical acceptance part two episode is that yes, it is so important to feel all of the feelings, not judge them, and give them space to exist so that you can work through them and move on, but it is also equally important for you to not live there. You cannot live with those feelings 100% of the time, 24/7. You have to allow yourself space to get out of that funk, go enjoy life, and feel happiness, light, and joy.” Women of Strength, we love you. We are proud of your healing journeys. We wish all the light and joy for you in this difficult, wonderful, exhausting, and rewarding season of motherhood. We are here for you! Additional Links The VBAC Link Podcast: Episode 251 Radical Acceptance Part One Julie’s Website The Lactation Network How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents Full Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello, hello everybody. You are listening to The VBAC Link and guess what? Julie is with me today. Hi Julie. Julie: Hi. Meagan: She’s actually looking right now for a message. We are going to do a Part Two of Radical Acceptance because we got so many messages on our social media and in our inbox and then even actually, some people who have my personal cell phone texted me about it and was like, “This episode did so much for me.” We are excited to have a little follow-up. Julie did get a message in her business inbox, right? Julie: Yeah. Meagan: We are going to read a little bit about that. Julie: Yes, so if you are coming in hot right now for the radical acceptance part two, you should go listen to the radial acceptance part one if you haven’t already. It’s episode 251, so go back, and yeah. It was such a good one. I got a couple of people reaching out to me as well on my business Instagram sharing about it and how much it touched them or helped them. I’m going to read this review that somebody– well, it’s not a review. It’s a message that somebody sent to me. Meagan: It’s a message and it’s in place of a Review of the Week. We are reading one of the messages that Julie got on her account. Julie: Yeah, since we are doing Radical Acceptance Part Two, we want to read a message from Radical Acceptance Part One. She said, “Hey, I listened to the radical acceptance as well as your episode about home versus hospital birth–” That is also a good one. Meagan: Yes, it is. Julie: “I wanted to thank you for sharing. My son’s first birthday is tomorrow and I feel I got completely railroaded by the medical system. With this birth, I so appreciate you and Meagan sharing your stories and giving me hope that there is light at the end of this tunnel.” I love that. It makes my heart happy. Obviously, since I’m not actively doing The VBAC Link or anything anymore, I don’t get as many people reaching out or whatever to connect in that capacity. Meagan: You don’t see these messages. Julie: I don’t see it, yeah. So it’s always fun when somebody pops into my Instagram DM’s and gives a little shoutout, so that was super fun. Thanks for that message. I don’t want to say the name just in case because it wasn’t a public message, but anyway. So yeah, we’re going to talk a little bit more about radical acceptance as a follow-up and then I don’t know what you would call it, like an addendum to it. Let’s do it. It’s going to be good. Meagan: It’s going to be so great. Even after that episode, it’s been weeks now, months. I’ve had situations and I’m like, “I need to practice radical acceptance. I need to practice radical acceptance.” It’s so powerful and it’s so easy to use, I think, in all things in life. Julie: Yeah, everything. Meagan: Yeah. I think this episode is going to be super fun to follow up. Julie: Yeah. Meagan: Okay, you guys, it’s almost Christmas and we have had so many amazing episodes, but like we were saying in the beginning, this episode is piggybacking off of one of my personal favorites that Julie and I have done together all year. So we’re going to get into it. Julie, you said that you had a story. Do you want to start off with that or do you want to talk about feeling everything, and what we were talking about a little bit? Julie: Yeah, yeah. I’ll share the story because it’s a good segue into the little addition or whatever to it. So I was at– well, it’s two stories really. So anyway, I was at a birth circle, and pregnancy group down near me and I like to go every month because I like to meet everybody and adult interaction is always fun because being a stay-at-home mom or a slave to your computer all day can take its toll. I go to socialize and meet people and things like that. One of the girls there had her baby and her birth didn’t go as she wanted. This was her rainbow baby. She had a late-term loss with her previous pregnancy, then this pregnancy started taking some– not scary turns– turns where you are just like, “Oh, now we’re a little bit worried about the health of mom and the health of baby.” She has a lot of stuff to work through already going into the pregnancy, right? Then the birth, the baby was healthy and everything was well with them physically, but she was triggered by how the birth went. There were some traumatic things that happened during that birth too. She was well-respected and well-cared for. She had a great birth team. All of those things are great, but she left trying to process the whirlwind of this birth along with still holding onto the loss of her prior pregnancy. At the end of the circle, she took some time to share her thoughts and feelings. She was like, “Guys, I just need help. I don’t know how to process through this. I don’t know how to get through this.” She was like, “I just don’t know what to do.” So me, being the talker that I am, I just told her kind of similar things that we talked about in the radical acceptance episode and said, “Just allow yourself to feel it. The fastest way to get through it is to feel it and sit with it and let it happen and be. Don’t judge it. Don’t give it a morally right or morally wrong. Your feelings are not morally right or morally wrong. They just are. You need to let them be. You don’t have to judge them or assign them or logic them or anything. You just have to let them be.” She was like, “I am getting really good at feeling all of the things.” She was like, “I’m doing really good at feeling everything. I just don’t know how to get out of it. I feel like I’m stuck here in this cycle of feeling.” It took me to this other conversation that I had with somebody who was similar. Similar things, we all have things. We all have things that we need to work through and process and deal with and radically accept or whatever, right? But it was another conversation I had with a good friend who was going through some really, really hard things. He actually ended up in a really bad, downward spiral and ended up checking himself into a mental health facility for a couple of weeks to do some trauma work and get on the right medications and stabilize himself. When I talked to him after he came out of the things, he said that his problem was that he was spending all of his time in the feeling bad and miserable stage. I don’t know if the right word it wallowing, but he was wallowing in that discouragement and that frustration and in that sorrow and in that struggle. He was allowing himself to live there. Meagan: It’s consuming. Julie: I think that other friend too, yeah. It was enveloping his whole life. I feel like my friend who was at the birth circle was in a similar situation allowing herself to be overcome by all of these feelings. It’s a tricky balance, right? I feel that what maybe I would like to add to this radical acceptance part two episode is that yes. It is so important to feel all of the feelings and not judge them and give them space to exist so that you can work through them and move on, but it is also equally important for you to not live there. You cannot live with those feelings 100% of the time, 24/7. You have to allow yourself space to get out of that funk and to go and enjoy life and to feel happiness and light and joy. You have to give yourself space for that because if you don’t, you’re going to end up in a downward spiral and you’re never going to come out of it. I mean, probably not never, but it’s going to be a lot harder too. I told my friend at the birth circle, I’m like, “You can’t live there. You can’t live there so go and do something fun. Go to a show. Go to a movie. Go paint pottery or get a massage or go on a hike with your kids or something like that to create joy and allow space for the light to enter even though it might feel really hard. You have to give yourself a break from feeling all of those things.” Meagan: Yeah. I think that it can be hard sometimes to recognize that you need that break because we are “wallowing”. Julie: I know that it’s a horrible word for this context. Meagan: But it’s really easy to get there. It’s really easy to be in that space. Sometimes, like the message that you got. She was realizing that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, but sometimes that tunnel is so dark that we see no light. Julie: Well, and sometimes we don’t think that we don’t deserve the light. Meagan: Yeah. Julie: Right? We’re like, “Oh my gosh. I made bad choices. I should not have done this. I deserve to feel like this,” and then we live there forever. I did. I can recognize moments of my life where I was so living in that darkness because I thought I was not worthy of the light. I got chills right now. I feel like we have all probably been there in one context or another. Meagan: Yeah. To some people, that thing that caused us to get there may be minute, right? Just tiny, tiny to somebody else, but it’s huge to us. It’s the same thing, so it goes back to not judging and understanding that everyone is going through their own journey and not judging. There are some things that you could be like, “Why are you upset about that? That’s not that big of a deal.” Julie: You have done that to me before. Meagan: I’m sure. Julie: I have done that to you before too actually. Meagan: It’s hard because I don’t understand, but it’s not up to another person to understand it. It doesn’t matter if they don’t understand. We are going through it, but we also have to understand that, okay. We feel this. We see this. We recognize this. Now, let’s get out and not, like you say, live in this feeling and let that feeling consume us. Julie: Well, and it’s so important. You keep going. I have a little ritual I was going to tell you about. Meagan: You’re just fine. I was just going to say that back to the first episode when we talked about, were our Cesareans needed? Julie: We have no idea. Meagan: I just had an interview with a mom this morning who had some hypertension. Not preeclampsia, just some hypertension at 36 weeks. At 37 weeks, she went in for her visit. Still hypertension, again, no preeclampsia or anything like that but they said, “We have to induce you today.” You guys cannot see Julie’s facial expression right now, but she’s like, “Oh, yeah.” Julie: Sorry. Meagan: But yeah, I was listening to this story and I’m like, “Okay, well do you remember what your numbers were?” Anyway, she had hypertension. She agreed to be induced. They did all of the things and after not very many hours said, “Well, this is probably not going to work. We’d better have a C-section.” Had a C-section, and things all happened. She was saying, “At this point, I’m at this spot of, was any of it necessary? Was an induction necessary? Was breaking my water at that time necessary? Was this necessary?” Those things, if we are just living constantly in the hamster wheel of questioning, it can make our hamster wheel dig right down into the dirt and like you say, we have no light. Then we start shaming ourselves because it’s like, “Well, I should have known more.” Right? Julie: That’s one exhausted hamster, Meagan. Meagan: You know me and my hamsters, Julie. Julie: I love it. Meagan: But then there’s no light. We’re blaming ourselves and not deserving the light because we’ve dug it so far. I’m not saying this mom is that deep or anything like that. I’m just saying things like that can make us go so far down and so dark. It’s really hard to get out. Julie: Yeah. My gosh, I get that. I see that pattern in my life in all parts of my life. This is the part where radical acceptance comes in. I have gotten to the point where, yes. I have accepted that I will never know if my C-section was necessary or not. I mean, it probably was. I know the baby needed to get out so the induction was necessary, but I don’t know. Who really knows? But there are just so many other things in my life. It’s really funny because my C-section baby is now 10 and he has some things that he’s struggling with, like some mental health things. He’s in therapy and we talk. Every once in a while, I let my mind wander and I’d be like, “What did I do in his early life to cause him to have these struggles right now?” If I let myself get into that spiral, I would be a hot mess. I probably didn’t do anything, but I might have. I feel like all of our kids are going to need therapy at some point because we’re going to mess them up in some way. We all try to do better than our parents. I don’t know, maybe not all of us, but I try to do better than what I was given. I want my kids to have a happier life and be more successful and be happier and not have to deal with all of the struggles that I did. At the same time, I realize that in the struggles is where we grow. Meagan: Exactly. Julie: A muscle that does no work doesn’t get strong. You have to strain the muscle in order for it to grow and become stronger. That’s where the repair happens. When the repairs are happening, that’s when the strength comes. He’s probably going to be fine. He’s a great kid. I love him. But every once in a while, my mind will start down that path and I have to correct it and be like, “We’re addressing things now. It doesn’t matter what happened in the past. We’re going to live in this moment.” I wanted to share this ritual of something that I do before a birth sometimes when I enter the birth space that I think could probably help in this context. Sometimes it’s really, really hard when you’re in a funk and you’re in a mood and you’re living your life in a state of regret and in unworthiness and you feel not worthy of the happy things or you feel like you’re never going to be happy again, how do you get out of that? This came to my head while we were talking. Sometimes, in fact a lot of time, when we get the call to birth as a doula and as a birth photographer, it’s not a convenient time in our lives. Meagan: No. You can say that again. Julie: It’s 3:00 in the morning. Meagan: Or a soccer game. Julie: You have to leave a soccer game or you have a football game. Okay, so it’s been eight football seasons since I started birth work and I’ve only had to miss one football game. I got to watch it while my client was in the OR while my client was doing her C-section. I turned it on while my client was in her C-section. That was a few years ago, but anyway. It’s not a convenient time. Sometimes, you are in the middle of a fight with your spouse. And it’s fine because we do this work. There are lots of other great things about it, but sometimes, it is hard to separate your mind from the rest of your life before you go into the birth space especially if you are in a bad mood or having a hard day, you don’t want to walk into that birth space carrying all of your baggage. You just don’t. I have this thing I do when I’m on my way to birth or when I get to the parking lot unless mom is pushing, then I’m running my butt into the room as fast as I can. Meagan: You can’t even think about anything that’s happening in your life at that point. Julie: Yes, exactly. It gets shoved down. What I like to do and what I think is applicable here is after I park my car, I sit down. I take some big breaths in because we know that big breaths give oxygen to all of your body parts and help you. I just like to put my hands to my forehead and just pull out what’s going on in my life. I put it in the seat next to me. I physically do this because that physical motion helps so much. I’m like, “Okay. You are not forgotten. I’m going to leave you here until I get back and until I’m done with my work. I am pulling my thoughts out of my head and I”m putting them in a little package on my passenger’s seat.” I will be like, “This argument with Nick (my husband), I’m going to get to when I get back. This problem with football, if BYU is losing or whatever, I’m going to leave you right here and I’m going to talk crap about it to Nick when I get home. This problem going on with my son and if he’s going to make it to therapy today, I don’t know, but I’m going to leave you right here on my seat. I’m not ignoring you. I’m not trying to brush you off. I’m leaving you here so that I can pick you up when I get back or when I’m ready for another thing and when I’m ready to talk to you again. I feel like that practice might be helpful in these circumstances. You can feel your feelings. You have to feel them to get through them, but when you need a break, when it’s time for that reprieve and that joy and that happiness, pull them out of your brain. Put them in a little box in the passenger’s seat of your car, next to your nightstand, or whatever, and say, “I hear you. You are here. You are real. I’m going to feel you later. Right now, I need a break to go be happy.” Meagan: I love that. I love that. And yeah, like you said, we can apply that to anything. I think when we are preparing for a VBAC, there is a lot of clustered thoughts happening in our mind. We’re thinking about who to find as a provider, if we should hire a doula, if we can afford these things, where we should birth, if my risk is okay, and if this risk is okay with me. We’re going through all of that and then we have all of the outside people saying, “You’re going to what? You can’t. How would you even dare?” We already have the pressures of our everyday life, and then we have the other static on top of it when we are preparing for VBAC. I remember multiple nights, especially during pregnancy when I couldn’t even fall asleep because I was so wrapped up in my mind. To be able to pull that out and be like, “I’m going to set that right there. I’m going to rest so I can come back to you with a fresh mind so I can tackle this saying or tackle this topic with a fresh mind and fresh body.” Again, like you said, you’re going into a birth. You’re removing these thoughts. You’re going into that birth. You’re holding space for that birth. I think that’s important to note. We have to hold space for ourselves. We have to. Like Julie was talking about being worthy of even having that light, we have to be worthy of giving that to ourselves and saying, “We’re going to stop. We’re going to take a minute and put this over here. We will come back when I’m ready, but until then, you’re just going to be right over there.” Julie: Yeah, absolutely. Yes. I love that. Sorry, I’m trying to collect my thoughts. I think it’s really important that you allow those feelings 100% of your energy and that space, but you can’t give it 100% 100% of the time. It’s important to allow yourself that space and that break. Carve times in your life. Maybe you have an hour a day where you allow yourself to feel and address and work with those feelings or something like that. Maybe it’s before bed after the kids are in bed and you have some quiet time. I don’t know about you, but sometimes my self-care is when I get home, I sit in my car in my garage for 5 or 10 minutes before I go into my house to kids and dogs and husband and chaos and everything. I allow myself that break between driving and doing the activities to go back. Do you do that? I feel like moms do that. Meagan: I totally do and then my husband or my kids will open the garage door and be like, “What are you doing?” Julie: Open the door and be like, “What are you doing?” Meagan: “I heard the garage door open 5 minutes ago.” I’m like, “I am sitting. I am just holding my own space for 5 minutes.” Julie: Yes, regrouping. Yes. It doesn’t have to be an hour. It can be a few minutes here and there and when you’re in it and when you’re feeling it, it’s important to give it your 100%, but don’t do it 100% of the time. Meagan: Well, on that note, we will end with that. But know that is exactly what she was saying, you don’t have to feel it 100% of the time. It’s okay to take the moments. You do not have to live in this feeling. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. If you are in this space, know that we are here. We are here. If you have a question about VBAC and you want to get that thought out of your mind and that is to get that question answered, email us. Write us on Instagram. Comment on these podcasts on your platform. We get them. We would love to talk about it with you and help you clear out the thoughts and the feelings and the emotions. We’re not therapists, though. I remember Julie said that in the beginning. We are not licensed therapists. We are just two ladies who love birth. Julie: Yes. This is not taken as medical advice. Meagan: None of our VBAC Link team members are trained and skilled in therapy or anything like that, but I just think these messages are powerful and thank you so much, Julie. Julie: You’re welcome. Always a pleasure. Closing Would you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan’s bio, head over to thevbaclink.com . Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link. 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