About this episode
“We want stories that don’t exist in systems”: Mike tells Sarah what happened when Utah set out to solve one of America's most intractable problems. Digressions include the Paleo diet, the planet Mars and the inadequacy of the term “up the river.” Jimmy Carter makes an extended cameo appearance. Continue reading → Support us: Subscribe on Patreon Donate on Paypal Buy cute merch Where to find us: Sarah's other show, Why Are Dads Mike's other show, Maintenance Phase Support the show