358: Bill Cherry of Switchback Enjoys the Slow Burn of Learning Through Doing

Innovation in beer has been accelerating for the past decade as breweries—excited by new styles and techniques, and feeding a culture of newness incentivized by social apps—churn out a relentless quantity of new beers in new formats with new labels. However, to hear Bill Cherry tell it, the choices he’s made at Switchback over the past two decades have been driven more by slowness than speed. Packaging in 22-ounce bombers so they could dial in packaging before moving to more popular formats, or pursuing innovation in smoked beer because demand (and competition) in that niche are small, have afforded the brewery time and space to figure it out and build demand organically, always focusing first on the beer and its quality. The results have paid off over recent years, with 2022 gold and 2023 bronze medals at the World Beer Cup for Katie’s Love Poem, their grodziskie. But that’s just the kindling, as their broader Flynn on Fire series has seen them tackle and learn from a vast array of different smoked beers. Cherry loves smoked beer because they’re harder to sell to consumers—there isn’t a built-in market for them, so they have to create one, and he loves that challenge as well as the runway for lower-stakes experimentation. In this episode, he talks through that counterintuitive strategy and how it relates to their approach to innovation, including: designing Switchback Ale based on pieces of other inspirational beers growing slowly to make sure beer quality is always top priority packaging draft only for the first 10 years of the brewery until they could afford a quality bottling line homing in on smoked because because “nobody likes smoked beers, but they should” creating the smoke-o-meter scale for conveying smokiness to consumers step-mashing for flavor, not just attenuation maintaining a living yeast pitch that’s going on 2,000-plus generations balancing hop flavor and smoke aroma in smoked IPA And more. “if you can get people to drink something that they don’t know they want, that’s true craft,” says Cherry. This episode is brought to you by: G&D Chillers ( https://gdchillers.com ) : At G&D Chillers they always strive to Build Great Chillers. Partner with them as you Build Great Beer. Choose G&D Chillers on your next Expansion or Brewery start up and receive 1 free year of Remote control and Monitoring of your new G&D Chiller! ProBrew ( https://www.probrew.com ) By partnering with ProBrew, brewers can fill and seam their canned product at ranges from 100-600 cans per minute. Our unique filling process also ensures low dissolved oxygen pickup and focuses on product quality during the entire process. Visit probrew.com or email us at contactus@probrew.com . Old Orchard ( https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer ) : Berry Blend, Blood Orange, Lemonade, and Tart Cherry are the latest additions to our lineup of flavored craft juice concentrate blends. To learn more and request your free samples, head over to oldorchard.com/brewer Omega Yeast ( https://omegayeast.com ) : Streamline efficiency with Omega Yeast’s Diacetyl Knock Out series. The DKO series is comprised of 8 familiar yeast strains engineered to knock out the formation of diacetyl before it starts. The strains you know, now better. Contact Omega Yeast today at omegayeast.com. ABS Commercial ( https://abs-commercial.com ) . ABS Commercial are proud to offer brewhouses, tanks, keg washers, and preventative maintenance parts to brewers across the country as well as equipment for distilling, cider-making, wine-making, and more! Contact them today at sales@abs-commercial.com to discuss your customized brewery needs. Yakima Chief Hops Varietees ( https://varietees.com ) . VarieTees Supply Co. offers hop apparel inspired by hop varieties, art, and community. Shop designs from various artists inspired by your favorite varieties including Citra, Simcoe, Sabro, and Mosaic! Shop VarieTees and use promo code CBB20 for 20% off at varietees.com. OPA Design Studio ( https://designopa.com ) : The architects at OPA Design Studio are your partners in developing the unique design you need. With over a decade of experience designing breweries, the folks at OPA are here to serve as your trusted experts from start to finish. Visit designopa.com to set up your no obligation introductory consultation today. Craft Spirits & Distilling Podcast ( https://spiritsanddistilling.com/podcasts/ ) : If you’re a distiller or curious about it, check out the Craft Spirits & Distilling podcast. Click on the link and subscribe from your favorite podcast platform. Support Craft Beer & Brewing Magazine Podcast