About this episode
Cinema in the Cell Block In this episode, Matt and returning Pod Mother Ali Gordon dive into the latest movie musical: Kiss of the Spider Woman . Adapted from the Tony-winning musical, Spiderwoman follows homosexual window dresser, Molina, and revolutionary Valentin. The two are cellmates in an Argentinian prison at the height of the country’s military controlled government. The two bond as Molina recites his favorite movie musical starring his favorite actress, La Luna, to help distract the two from the perils of their everyday lives. Matt and Ali untangle the stage show’s campy contradictions, while also highlighting what makes it so magnetic. The two also discuss the story’s origins as a novel and the Oscar-winning 1980’s film that preceded even the stage musical. And what exactly happens to a story about repression when it gets the glossy movie-musical treatment? Ali Gordon, writer, comedian, and longtime Broadway Breakdown favorite, joins to celebrate her debut novel We Have Reached the End of Our Show and to unpack a show she adores, flaws and all. A theater obsessive with razor-sharp insight (and the patience to debate Bill Condon), Ali brings her trademark mix of heart, humor, and “I know this is messy but I love it anyway” energy to the conversation. Timestamps 00:00 – Intro 02:30 – Kiss of the Spider Woman : Ali Gordon’s “favorite wreck” 08:00 – From novel to stage: Manuel Puig’s wild narrative form 11:00 – Queerness and censorship in the musical’s early years 18:00 – The 1985 film vs. the 1993 musical: tone, transness, and tension 23:00 – Valentin and Molina: machismo, fantasy, and the politics of sex 27:00 – Bill Condon’s movie musical: ambition or adaptation confusion? 31:00 – Chicago, Dreamgirls, and the “Godfather of the Movie Musical” myth 45:00 – Gimme Love and the problem with pretty choreography 56:00 – The legacy of Chita Rivera’s Aurora and “Where You Are” 1:00:00 – How Spider Woman fits into the lineage of queer musical theater 1:30:00 – Ali plugs her novel (and her huge thesaurus) Key People Mentioned Creators: Manuel Puig (novel), John Kander & Fred Ebb (music & lyrics), Terrence McNally (book) Original Cast: Chita Rivera, Brent Carver, Anthony Crivello Film Team: William Hurt, Raúl Juliá, Bill Condon (director), Jennifer Lopez, Diego Luna, Tonatiuh Elizarraraz Related Mentions: Rob Marshall, Tony Kushner Broadway Breakdown Links Broadway Breakdown Discord Broadway Breakdown, A Cabaret Now: Tix We Have Reached the End of Our Show by Ali Gordon — bookshop.org Kiss of the Spider Woman (1993 Broadway Cast Recording) Kiss of the Spider Woman (1985 film) Broadway Breakdown Substack Listener Discussion Questions What do you think are the rules a movie musical needs to adhere to in order to “work”? This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit bwaybreakdown.substack.com