How To Connect At A Deep Level With Real Estate Clients • Diana Sutherlin

Diana Sutherlin with Sutherlin Group shares her transition from a sales agent to a real estate agent. Diana discusses how being a sales agent and former actress has taught her a very importance of learning from others and not having the need to show off. Next she emphasized that an agent should know a client’s personality and try to quickly assess their motivation and their needs. Last, DJ and Diana discuss the importance of listening to your client and letting them know they are both heard and seen. If you’d prefer to watch this interview, click here to view on YouTube! Diana Sutherlin can be reached at (551) 998-8485 and diana@sutherlingroup.com . This episode is brought to you by Real Geeks . Transcript D.J. Paris 0:00 top producers understand the importance of connecting deeply with their clients. We’re going to show you how to do that today. Stay tuned. This episode of Keeping it real is brought to you by real geeks. How many homes are you going to sell this year? 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And now on to our show. Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keeping it real the largest podcast made by real estate agents and for real estate agents. My name is DJ Parris. I’m your guide and host through the show, by the way, welcome to everyone who is new to the podcast and welcome back. Of course, to our returning fans and listeners, we love all of you. In just a moment, we’re going to be speaking with Diana Sutherland total superstar, top 1%. Producer, before we get to Diana, the best way that you can help our show if we’re helping you and I hope we are is by well, two ways actually telling a friend, you know if you can pause this podcast for just a second, send a link share it to to another agent in your office or somebody that you know that could really use some encouragement and some advice from a top producer this year. And the second way is by supporting our sponsors, we have the best and greatest sponsors. We love our sponsors. They are on our show because you guys purchase and use their services and products. So please check out what they’re offering. We’ve met them we know they’re awesome, and they’re going to help you grow your business. Alright guys, that’s enough. Let’s get to the main event, my conversation with Diana Sutherlin. Today, my guest is Diana southerly from the Sutherland group in New Jersey, specifically Jersey City, Hoboken and up the Gold Coast. And let me tell you more about Diana. Now prior to a career in real estate Diana Sutherland produced sales training programs for Fortune 500 companies for nearly two decades. Her expertise in every area of sales, along with a background in interior design led her to a career that incorporated all aspects of her unique and invaluable background culminating in a sales volume of 18 million in her first year as a real estate agent. That’s an incredible number. As we all know now Diana and her team are distinguished Gold Coast agents that offer truly hands on full service sales and tailored marketing services. She’s partnered with developers since 2005 and has been the top selling new construction and waterfront agent for 18 years. She gets chosen by developers. We’re going to talk to her about that as well. Some of her projects have included 77 Hudson golds Cove phase one and two Trump Plaza Crescent court. 25 Senate plays Hamilton square and lofts. 222 Diana has received platinum level awards for the past 13 years from the NGR Circle of Excellence which is the New Jersey Association of Realtors, and the triple platinum award four years in a row at her previous brokerages. She closed on the highest priced waterfront condo in New York, sorry in New Jersey history in 2017 and continues to break her own records on top selling brownstones in Jersey City. Please everyone follow up Diana visitor website, a big fan of her website Sutherland group.com. That’s su t h e r l i n group.com. We will have a link to that in the show notes. And please follow her group on Facebook and Instagram which is Sutherland group and we’ll have a link to those as well in the show notes. Diana, welcome to the show. Diana Sutherlin 4:51 Hi, thank you for the very lovely introduction. D.J. Paris 4:55 Well I love doing introductions for people because it is always so awesome. auditioning to me about how, you know our guests have have really just accomplished so much. And oftentimes in a short amount of time, and I know you’re not new to the business, but even in your first year to do 18 million is really impressive. I know it’s not your first year in the business any longer. However, you have only gone up from there. So I am super excited to hear about how you’ve done that. And, and also, you know, what your overall philosophies are working with clients, I know you have certain thoughts of how you have grown your business that we’re going to explore. But the first thing I always like to know is how you got into real estate, you are a sales trainer prior to that, but but walk us through how you how you move from, from being sales, sales training program, sort of person to working in sales directly. Diana Sutherlin 5:49 Okay. I, I ran a company for almost 20 years, and I trained fortune 500 companies in sales, all aspects, reading body language, overcoming objections, I loved I loved working with people, I loved drawing people out, I used to have to interview CEOs and high level executives on camera, and they’d be so nervous. And I just took pride in the fact that I would put them at ease, I’d ask the right questions. I just loved people skills. And, and I did that for a long time. Sometimes we like to reinvent ourselves, I went back to get my interior design degree, because I had always been buying properties, fixing them up selling them, and so forth. And I love design. So I was in just about ready to get my degree in interior design. And my girlfriend said to me, and I still had my other company, I’m very much a workaholic. So my girlfriend said to me, why don’t you get your real estate license? And I’m like, Oh, maybe I could do that part time. And she goes, Diane, I don’t know what you do part time you do nothing part time. I’m like, No, I get some I still had my other company open. And I was doing programs for very big corporations. And I thought, well, I’ll just do this, you know, on the side. And I literally I sold over 18 million in my first year I was I won Rookie of the Year for the northern region. I was a New Jersey, it was just crazy. And, and I thought why didn’t I was sort of taking all my skills, working with people, my sales skills, and my design skills. And I thought I should have been doing this years ago, years ago. So I just fell in love with it. And and I worked my butt off. I mean, I took you know, I always tell the story, but it’s really the truth. I worked I took two days off my first year, Mother’s Day and Christmas. And that’s it. And people laugh about it all the time. I mean, it really was two days. But um, you know, it’s it’s probably where I should have been all along. But all of those other things sort of led me to this. D.J. Paris 8:24 Yeah, well, you clearly had the skills that you were training to different sales organizations to allow you to really flourish in so quickly. And on top of having not just a job but running a company, and then doing 18 million, and I suspect it wasn’t one transaction for 18 million, probably was a lot of transaction Diana Sutherlin 8:47 transactions. And I didn’t even realize what I was doing. I was just sort of doing it, doing it doing it. And I used to do in my first year, I would get out there I did like three open houses a week, every single week. I was like oh, and I and I loved it. And I was learning it. And I was realizing that I was taking all these things that I had learned about communication skills, some of which actually came from a former life to a different. I started many, many years ago, in Manhattan, I was living there and I was an actress. And I had I still attribute some of the most important tips that I learned in every business that I’ve been in to what I learned in the acting world. Not that you’re acting or putting on a show, but that I actually I studied an acting technique that is very famous in New York, but it forces you to focus on the other person To listen to the other person to react to them hyperfocused and, and I took that into some of the sales training that I did. So many people are so self conscious, they want so badly to impress and show that I’m the market expert, or I’m this or that they’re not really paying attention to the person sitting in front of them. And you know, so that was a really big, big, big part of what I think that fed into my skills, almost more than anything else. D.J. Paris 10:41 It’s interesting. You meant it’s interesting that you mentioned acting, because you know, and I don’t know, you know, where you studied, I was trying to think what are the, you know, I do know, like, there’s the Strasburg technique, there’s Gouda. Haga and there’s there’s a bunch of, I’m not an actor. So I have my knowledge is very limited, of course, but but that sort of training is so interesting, because as as somebody who’s not an actor, I think about what do actors really have to do? Well, they have to memorizing, and you’re right, though, there’s that whole other component that I don’t think about when I watch actors perform on TV, or a theater, which is listening to the other other actors and making adjustments along the way. So that it does seem like a connected experience. And I imagine that’s a really important skill set, especially when you’re sitting across the table from someone maybe who hasn’t worked with you before, as, as an old client, as a real estate client, and now is, you know, trusting you with a primary, very sizable purchase or sale. Diana Sutherlin 11:39 Right? It’s, it’s interesting, because a couple of the things that you mentioned are, I had studied a couple of different of the biggest techniques, some of them actually make you more self conscious. And, and I can as an analogy, an actor’s can, an actor can some sometimes be so self focused, that they’re actually standing out side of themselves, watching their performance is very self conscious. And this was actually called the Meisner technique, and some teachers in New York teach it to this day. But it was all about focusing on the other actor, completely taking the focus off of yourself. And there’s something that I always there’s a little story, I want to throw in a little tidbit because I always whenever I am, I am training actors on my actors. And whenever I’m training agents on my team, I always tell them this story. There was a great great audition book in New York that every actor, it was their Bible, and it was called audition by Michael Shurtleff. And he talks about how self focused actors are, and that they can go into an interview, they can do this thing. They are so nervous about making a good impression, proving they’re the one that’s right for this job, that they’re not even listening or paying attention to the person across from them. And he told a story about how he was doing an audition up at the Ansonia Hotel in New York years and years. And you were going back a lot, two years. And he said, I saw 360 People that day, I think that was the number. And he said, I walked out of the day, lock the office, walked across Broadway. And here coming towards me is one of the actors that I had auditioned. And he said, I waved at him and I said, Oh, hi, you know, whatever. He looked at me, like he had no clue who I was. And this is a perfect example of what I’m talking about. I saw 360 People that day. And I recognized and D.J. Paris 14:00 remembered him. Yeah. Diana Sutherlin 14:02 One and he didn’t recognize me. And I’ve never forgotten that. Because when people sit in front of you, I mean, one of the things that I that I love about working with people in some of this had to do with personality assessments that I used to teach and I studied and so forth, but they’re all types of people and they’re all types of buyers. If if you some of them are very aesthetically motivated, they’ll walk into a home and they absolutely I love the wallpaper. I could just they’re emotionally connected to the home there I could see my family sitting in this breakfast room looking out the window when you know the Cardinals sitting in the tree you know is right outside the window. And and that is a very different personality type than the one who’s very analytical, what what, you know, has been the value increase in the last five years? Where do you see this going? Show me a spreadsheet, show me the comps. And sometimes you will have a couple that are you’ll have one of each of this personality type. And they’re vastly different. And you have to assess very, very quickly, who are you talking to? What is their motivation? What is their trigger? What are their buttons, and really, really pay attention. If if you’re trying to prove to them how great you are, you’re not paying attention that takes that takes real focus. And sometimes you’ll sit there in front of a couple, and you’ll have to pivot between those two communication styles. But you have to do an otherwise they you can see them glaze over. When you’re lost, you know, it’s done. And I love that, D.J. Paris 16:02 you know, it’s, it’s Thank you. That is such an important thing, too. You know, I was thinking as you were talking, trying to think about myself, I’m not a practicing agent, but I talk to agents all day and a lot of my what I do is recruit agents. So it’s a similar, it’s a similar sort of thing, because agents want different things from different brokerages. But what you said is so important, because oftentimes, and even on this podcast, I can I can be very self focused. I can, I’m listening, but I’m really more thinking about what’s the next thing I have to say. So that there’s not alone, not with you necessarily, but with other with other people sometimes. And I realize I’m totally out of this conversation, I know what I’m going to say next. And that’s good. But it’s only because I’m afraid that if I focus in on this other person and really connect with my, you know, my client or my podcast guests, that I’m not going to know what to say going you know, once there is a break in the conversation, and the reality of it is I’ll have probably a much better connected things to say, by paying attention. Diana Sutherlin 17:03 Absolutely. And that’s why I think so many people overlook that piece of it. Even even open houses, I always have my young agents shadow me. And I’m like you, if you don’t start asking questions, the minute they walk in the door. Oh, hi. Do you live in the neighborhood? Oh, where do you Where are you coming from, you know, and get in a conversation, draw them out, you’re thinking of maybe moving across the Hudson to Jersey City or to Hoboken. If you don’t engage and ask those questions, you you have to treat it almost like a mini buyer’s consultation. If you don’t, it’s a complete wasted opportunity. I’ve been in so many houses, where agents will just sit there and Oh, could you sign in, please. And you know, they don’t want to bother them or be in their hair. So they let them wander around, or they spend so much time and I love I’m I used to teach product knowledge. So I love talking about passionately talking about finishes. I love that. And I was in design. So that’s exciting to me. But that’s only a piece of it. So much of it is Who is this person. People want to work with who they connect with? You know, you don’t have to sit there and go, I sold X amount last year. That’s not what does it. It’s who you connect with? Did they hear me everybody wants to be seen and heard. And you know, it’s always always I kind of inherently knew that. But I always teach my agents that it’s a mini buyer’s consultation, you know, and they’ll remember you. D.J. Paris 18:56 Yes, because you’ll be the one where they feel wow, this person understands me. And they were listening. And and you already have if you wanted to, for example, because how successful you’ve been, you could just rattle off all of your accomplishments. And maybe there’s a small percentage of people that would be like, I just want to be entertained. I want somebody to razzle dazzle me, and maybe that would work. But the vast majority of us want to feel, as you said, heard, seen, and I was thinking about this last night and I’ll give you this sort of unusual, or a Monday night. So I was not it doesn’t matter what I do. I was I was getting I was at the stretch this place called stretch lab where they stretch you out and it’s they just open one in my neighborhood. And so I was doing an evaluation because I’m very inflexible, anyway, and the way the reason I’m mentioning this is when they stretch you out, it’s a very intimate sort of physical act where, like, there’s this woman stretching me out and she’s kind of on top of me and touching me in a very professional way but also kind of an intimate, vulnerable place. And and it was and I was I had kind of a weird reaction to but not a negative reaction, just like I felt very connected to this person. And I go, and even though I just met them, and there was no, this was just her job and she was stressing me out. But it was interesting. And I felt like oh, the reason why I feel so connected to this person is she’s touching me in a very professional platonic way. But but touching me, and I’m a single person, I don’t have a lot of touch in my life. And I go, Oh, so I’m holding on to this going, this feels very satisfying. And it reminded me of being heard and seeing people have the same sort of reaction when they actually feel heard or seen, or in my case, I had got touched. And that was very fulfilling. Even though that wasn’t the intention, I was going for there. I was really just going to get stretched out. But I went, Oh, it reminds me Oh, I miss touch. And so this idea of being heard and seen, and and really, like I recognize you is so so critical, and it kind of flies in the face of old sales techniques of objection. And coming up with a way to overcome. Yeah, Diana Sutherlin 20:59 I love that you said that, because I, I have always told my team, if you’re in this only for the money, forget it. Your net people know, they know when you’re trying to sell them. And what’s so funny is I actually cannot stand sales. I’m like, I go into car dealerships, and I get angry, I get angry. And the fact is, it’s so funny, because it very beginning of the business, I have such an aversion to that, and I’m so authentic, I like to really authentically connect with people. And I will never forget, I will never forget saying to this friend of mine, you know, I just kept people telling me to close them, close them, close them. And I’m like, you know, I can’t think that way because it makes me feel like I’m pushing somebody, I’m selling them. And my girlfriend said to me, but Tiana you that is so the opposite of you. And you are only helping them to achieve what they came to you to do. And I thought well, and something clicked in my head. I actually said that to one of my agents on my team recently. She’s like, I always have this hesitation that I don’t want to be the salesperson I said, but they came to you for this help you are making literally I know it sounds corny, but it really is a dream come true in their life. And the fact is, if you come from a place of wanting to do that, and wanting to serve in that way, it will always come back to you because people know it. They know when you’re sincere. So I really believe, you know, for young agents or newish agents, don’t worry about this one sold more than I have that one’s done, whatever, be authentic care about the people in front of you and come from a place. Yes, you have to have absolute knowledge of your market. Definitely. But I know so many people that have tons of knowledge of their market. And they’re really good at all the coaching techniques and closing closing. There are a lot of people who don’t respond to that. They can feel the antennae go up right away, and they can just sort of feel that they’re being sold, you know. And so you have to trust that if you know, if you know your market, and you’re sincere and you really have in your gut, the desire to help people it’s going to come across. D.J. Paris 23:47 And I always think too, I agree. And for anyone listening who is newer to the business and doesn’t know everything yet, which of course is a lot of us. I always say you know, have this kind of this little phrase. Or you might even have a better one, Dianna, because I’m not out there in the trenches, like like you and our guests. But I always like this phrase, and I tell it to our agents as just as something to keep in mind. But you might even have a different suggestion. But if you don’t know the answer to something always have, especially if you’re new, and you’re not going to know the answer to everything. I always say have this this expression, which is just say, that’s an amazing, that’s a great question. I want to double check with my team, because I want to give you a really complete answer. So bear with me while I check, or I’ll get back to you in an hour or next day or whatever. But it’s okay to be I can authentically say I don’t know, I’m going to find out and that’s what a consultant does. I mean, consultants get paid a lot of money to say I don’t know, I’ll find out. I’ll come back to you. Diana Sutherlin 24:42 And let me tell you, I’ve been in this business a while and they’re constantly things I don’t know. And I always say that because I they and they will value that the client will will will appreciate that. Absolutely. And if you Try to budget, they’ll know, I think they’ll know. Or worse yet, they’ll find out. Yeah, D.J. Paris 25:05 they’ll look it up and say up, she doesn’t know. Diana Sutherlin 25:09 And I’ve seen agents do that they’ll throw out an answer, and they don’t know what they’re doing. And I’m standing in front of them. And sometimes I’m like, are, you know, you don’t want to correct the agent. But at the same time, you don’t want them to get sued, either, you know, so. But I am constantly in that position. I think, you know, the day we stop learning, I work with a lot of developers, and they’re things that are on such a high level that I can’t possibly know, you know, it’s going to be an environmental attorney who might have the answer to that, there’s always going to be things I don’t know. So, you know, so that’s a perfect answer, you know, if I can improve on that. D.J. Paris 25:58 I think this idea of listening is so important. And yes, I do acknowledge that it can be scary to again, when we’re sitting there in a presentation buyer or seller presentation, where we’re like, trying to try to win the business. And I just want to say these things, and also then recognize when we’re getting a little bit outside of ourselves, maybe, you know, this sort of third person looking in going what’s the next thing I’m gonna say, or he’s gonna say, then going back in and saying, focus on the person, you know, and if you practice your pitches, that information will be there anyway, when you need it. But under, you know, and I’m curious to when when you are in a buyer or seller, presentation, and let’s say it’s not, you know, a slam dunk referral, or a previous client, somebody who’s new to you that you have to win over in some capacity. You know, when you talked about really listening to them? What are some of the things you’re listening for? I’m just curious, what, what you’re trying to assess? Diana Sutherlin 26:54 You want to find out? Number one, what their motivation is? Why are they buying? Why are they selling? What what are their fears? What are there fears and objections? Because, you know, and I used to teach this all the time, you can’t overcome an objection, unless you know what it is. So, you know, so many stores, you know, say, Listen, if a customer’s unhappy, and they don’t come up and complain, they’re not coming back. And they’re going to tell 10 other people, you always want to suss out, what what are your What are your, your questions and your fears about this particular property? Or, you know, find out as much information about, are they both on the same page do they both seem to want to get I get a lot of couples, one wants to go to the suburbs, the other one hates the suburbs. So you kind of and sometimes for sellers, it will take me two or three years to get that listing, because they’re not ready to sell yet. They’re still in that kind of, so you sort of feel and you hear both of them, you let the both of them kind of verbalize what their hesitancies are, you know, what are the pros and cons? You know, I think it’s, you know, the who, how, what, why, you know, you want to know, why are they selling, you know, sometimes they won’t tell you, but often they will. And, you know, you just got to you’ve got to understand motivations. And I think you you have to understand motivations and fears, you know, and what’s their passion, what would make them really really happy, you know, try to zero in D.J. Paris 28:52 on that. And that’s really important because you just said something really important, what would make you really really happy because for some people will be just get highest and best price. You know, if I’m selling a property, I don’t care or if I’m buying give me the lowest invest. And then other people if they’re selling a property they go well I obviously want to get as high a price as possible. But what’s really important is that the family that’s coming in seems to have some appreciation for what we’ve done here. And what we’ve you know, the improvements we’ve made, I just want a good family in here or good you know, whatever. That’s sometimes come rises even above the level of here’s what you’re gonna get for it. And, and that and knowing that is really critical. Diana Sutherlin 29:30 Well, they feel appreciated this home, particularly if they were emotionally attached to it. If they put some of their heart and soul into it, somebody walks in and they emotionally love it. That can go a very long way. You know, I think that’s that can be super important to some people. And there was something else I was thinking about about buyers that had to do with that I’m in now Oh, it’s escaping me. I might, I might remember in a minute. But yeah, for sellers, that’s very important. D.J. Paris 30:10 Well, I have a question for you while you’re thinking, because I am trying to remember Yeah, no, it’s okay. Just interrupt me at any time. If it comes in, I was thinking, I was curious, because you had said something about, you know, sometimes I have a consultation, whether it’s buyer or seller, or you give the example of seller in this case, where they’re not really ready to sell and maybe two or three years goes by before they actually list with me. I am curious, because connection is so important to you. How do you stay in touch with them in between those, you know, those times, right? So, you know, you have your your consultation, you realize they’re really not ready at this moment, but I want I want to be their person when they are ready. So how do you stay in touch with them? What are some of the things you and your group do to make sure they don’t feel like oh, Diana forgot about me, right? Diana Sutherlin 30:56 I, you know, that’s a tough one. Because I, I have had so many clients over the years, and I try my best I will 100% admit, I am not the best person at mining my database. If I had to say there was at that’s one of the most important things, you know, I do it as much as I can. But I part of part of the day I work with a lot of developers, and which is fabulous, fabulous. But part of the downside of that is it takes a lot of time and focus. And so we are constantly like I have a newsletter that we’re we’re doing, you know, constant things, I do a lot of press things. So I’ll send it to them. Not sure if you saw this article, whatever, I’ll try to reach out if I, you know, remember certain sports events that their kids are in or things like that, I’ll always try to do that. But I could definitely be better at that. I’ve, I’m I’m you know, it’s funny, I was talking to somebody about this the other day, so much of my business has been past clients and referrals from past clients that I’ve I’ve honestly never been a cold caller. I’ve I’m not as great as I could be. And I think, you know, with the, you know, calling my database all the time, my, you know, sphere. And I was telling somebody the other day because she said My God, Diana, if you did that, can you even imagine what your business would be? Which is true. You know what I’m trying to get better at that I know what I was gonna say, I just remember what I was gonna say, I had a developer years ago, and I, I’ve never forgotten it, because it was such a great compliment. And I wasn’t even that long in the business. But I was representing his building. And he watched me so much with different buyers. And he said, you know, you have the most uncanny ability to listen to a buyer and almost immediately know exactly the home that’s right for them. Like, exactly, he’s D.J. Paris 33:17 the best, by the way, that’s like the best compliment you could ever have. Diana Sutherlin 33:21 And when he said that, to me, I’ve never forgotten it, it made me feel so good. And he goes, How do you do that? And I was like, listen, I pay attention. And literally, it was true, it was almost immediately people would come to me and even if I showed them something, even if I showed them 10 More things, it was that one that I told them they were going to fall I knew what they would fall in love with. You know, and and I love that and I’ve never forgotten that and it was very early, you know in the business for me. But anyway, that was what I wanted to D.J. Paris 33:55 know it’s it’s so important. I think about this a lot and people on our listeners probably sick of hearing me say it so I apologize. But because a lot of you have heard this before but if you’re new maybe you haven’t, which is I have this like fantasy when I think about the service professionals in my life for different industries, accountant, financial advisors, attorneys, you know, whatever anyone that’s giving me personal trainer, you know anyone that’s helping me in my life somehow and my fantasies are always like I want that phone call which never comes but but but I love that I would love the phone call and I’ll just pick on my accountant who I adore. She’s the best and she’s wonderful. And I’m not picking on her really but I would but if she’s got a million clients I’m if I were her only client she’d probably do this. But But I have this fantasy that she would call me up one day and just go I was just thinking about you. I have this new idea. You know if this happened to me just the other day at the hair salon, I would get my hair cut and my the person that get my hair cut same person for like 15 years. She goes, I have an idea. And I was like I don’t even want to hear it just do it because you this is what you do. And I love the fact that you were thinking bout me, outside of, you know, like, I don’t expect anyone to think about me ever. But, but But what do you hear it does feel like, wow, someone’s thinking about me they want to have doctors, this is where I found as I’ve gotten older, I love having good doctors, because a good doctor for me will come and say, Hey, man, you’re doing really well or you’re not doing well. Or hey, you know, I’ve been really watching you for the last few years. Here’s, you know, just feeling like my doctors care about me is really important. And I think Realtors obviously, you know, demonstrate care through listening and really understanding the client needs. Yep. Diana Sutherlin 35:39 And also, if you there was a couple of things that I made certain to do back when the market the horrible market crash. And I have to tell you, it was like trial by fire. I represented four developers during that period. Oh, my God, it was brutal. It was brutal. But for my resale clients that would call me in my home worth what am I going to do? Should I, I convinced so many of them not to sell, I convince so many of them not to sell. And I was like, you know, I had the single mothers who had one trial, you know, they were raising their entire, they’re all their net worth was in home all. And I was like, Is there any way you can hang on? Do you have to move right now? And if you do, can you rent it for the time being? My brokerage time was yelling at me. Yes, it was me getting listings. I said, You know what, I go to sleep at night. And guess what, not only did they come back to me when they were ready to sell making a couple of 100,000 more than they would have Thank you very much. But they also referred me five other people, of course. And because they knew if if all you’re doing is following the money, I know agents who put people in the worst positions, they could have been sold, you know, single fragile women out very, you know, areas they shouldn’t be living in the you know, that were a bit dangerous, because the Commission’s were 5% co broke, you know, some new development out, you know, far away from and, and I can tell you never, and I’ve said to my my team, always you sell that person, what’s right for them, I don’t care what they’re paying out. Because it’s going to come back to you five times over, D.J. Paris 37:42 it really will one way or the other good or bad, it’ll come back to you. Diana Sutherlin 37:47 To you. Absolutely. You know, D.J. Paris 37:50 I would be remiss if I didn’t, because I know our audience is frothing at the mouth to hear and I know there and I’m going to disappoint our listeners, some of our listeners who are like, I want to fast track to working with developers and there isn’t most likely these days. However, I would love for you to share any guidance that you might have maybe with team members that are that you work with or just agents in general, if they wanted to start heading down that I want to be on the shortlist of developer agents that developers choose because you have you are the developer, Queen of New Jersey. That is that is it really is such an amazing feather in your cap because you are chosen and you have earned that spot. And I am curious on what you might suggest to agents who want to start to go up that mountain. Diana Sutherlin 38:43 So it it’s it I’m not gonna lie, it’s not easy. Sometimes you might want to put yourself you know, in a position where of learning where you gotta learn. There’s no way you’re ever going to have the knowledge of what they need without being exposed to it. And sometimes that might be being on a team for a while. For some agents. It’s working in a sales center, a leasing office, something for another organization. You learn so much from that. And I was very, very fortunate. I started working with developers from two months into the business. And they saw what I was just smaller. I worked with a smaller developer that was doing a lot of you know, boutique style properties. And I was selling them and my banners were all over and then K Hovnanian, which is a huge developer approached me to do a project and then another big one came out of that and then of course, I got to be kind of known in that area. I did have a lot of skills that were very unique. I had the this sales skills, but I also have the design skills. And now, you know, you show you have to show your value. And some of that is, you know, like you talk about market knowledge of a market, I don’t just have knowledge of a market by resale comps, I have to go out and really do spreadsheets and do a deep, deep, deep dive for the developers, the demographics of certain areas, this and that, all kinds of things. And start small start working with like I did a small developer, you can imagine what can possibly come out of that. If you have any kind of skills in terms of I do staging, also, if it’s a, if it’s, I have several, you know, storage, you know, people are screaming at me all the time on my team, you’re buying more, you know, but the thing is, I am, I love even the light staging, which is it, you know, can make an enormous difference. If if I need a gut furniture, if it’s if I had to do three brownstones at a time, I wouldn’t have enough. So why would bring in a staging company, but I love to do it, because it’s a creative, you know, part of what I do, I still get to play with all of that. But even even things be aesthetically aware, you know, hone your skills in that. Even accessories, I can’t tell you how much accessories will transform a space artwork, gorgeous throw pillows, I mean, I deal with, you know, I, I get challenged very often with some very plain bland kind of places that are, you know, in the beddings looking, I will literally transformed the space just with bedding, throw pillows, artwork, and people come in, and they’re like, Oh, my God, I can’t. And I do that, even for some of my smaller developers, you know, so I think, trying to hone your skills in that way. But I think being under the wing, you know, or the umbrella of another company where you’re going to learn, I know, other agents who’ve worked on sales teams, you learn so much that way, so much, and sale. And interestingly, some of those marketing companies hire newer agents, you know, sometimes you’re on a salary with just, you know, a small bonus on each unit. I, I I represented some developers during the downmarket that I made Brant, I mean, brand new buildings, 414 unit building, you know, and so forth, made very, very little, because it was a broker outreach, that’s where it kind of started, which was to drive the broker community to the builder. And, and I was, so sometimes it feels like, Oh, my God, I’m working so hard. And there’s so little return on this, that has been an annuity that has paid me to this day, because I sold units, and then I’ve resold them. And sometimes I’ve sold the same unit three times. But after all these years, I got known in these buildings, I got known by the developers, you know. But just keep in mind, it’s a lot harder than I don’t want to discourage anybody. You have to have a certain temperament for it. Because serving many masters, masters, and not only that, whatever, you know, if you have a client that’s nervous, and things have been on the market too long, or there would imagine that that’s times 300. D.J. Paris 44:18 Sure. Yeah, stressful conversations, you know, Diana Sutherlin 44:22 some stressful and you’re literally under fire, and it’s like, what have you done for me lately? You’ve got to constantly keep coming up with ideas. When the market crashed, we had to come up with things like you know, let’s do let’s do a trip to Paris, in addition to their good commission for the next sale, you know, let’s you know what, you’ve got to think out of the box and go to other properties visit as many of the competing types of properties as possible. You know, D.J. Paris 44:57 that’s a brilliant that is something that nobody Out of 500 episodes, I think has ever said about working with developers is Go study other developments and what works, what doesn’t work and bring that to a developer say, Hey, I’ve been, I’ve been noticing around because they all know the other projects that are out there, I don’t like this, I don’t like this, etc, Diana Sutherlin 45:17 you gotta shot them. You don’t chop them, you don’t know what your competition is. And you think it’s you think it’s important to know competition, up the street for your house, you better believe it’s really important to do because there’s nobody that looks at one building, they’re gonna go to all of them. So what can you do to stand out? You know, and what are they offering, if suddenly they’re throwing in window treatments, if they’re doing this, you must stay on top of it, see their product, know how their product compares to yours, whether it’s a three unit building, a 200 unit building, shop, that product, you know, so very important. D.J. Paris 46:05 Amazing advice. I would also like to ask, and this is this is, I think, can be a trickier question. Because you have so much success over the years, people oftentimes see somebody at your level and think, Oh, she’s got it made. She’s got and obviously, you know, I know from talking to so many hundreds of agents, top agents over the years that they’re working just as hard usually today as they were when they started. But a lot of times, you know, people listening think, Oh, this must be, you know, Diana is not affected by the ups and downs of the market, because she has all of this, you know, business built in, because she’s been so successful for so long. But obviously you are you struggled just as any other agent, does market market conditions affect you. This is, you know, we’re 2023, half a little bit of more than halfway through the year. Look, we the reality of it is inventory is down in most markets, of course, rates are still high. This is not the easiest time to work with buyers, certainly not the easiest time really working with sellers, either. It’s either maybe easier to sell a property harder to get the next property. So so it is a tough time right now. And what are you doing? Or what are you coaching your team to do to stay motivated to stay productive? Like, what are some of the activities you’re doing right now? Diana Sutherlin 47:27 Well, we have an unbelievable lack of inventory where we are incredible lack of inventory. But you know, back and I and I, you know, there are so many buyers that are really nervous, they’re like this is just in the beginning of when the interest rates started going up. I heard over and over and over again. You know, this is just like 2009 2010. This is the opposite, thank goodness, at least where we are at that time. And the reason I worked with so many developers, and this was in downtown Jersey City, there were high rises going up galore, they were condo buildings. They were all just starting sales, they had to fill up those entire buildings and the market crashed. That was an over supply and an under demand. What we have now is the opposite. We haven’t you know, we have a huge demand, very little supply. We’ve We’ve got so many people coming out of New York right now. And what I tried to do is you always have to you have to pivot with any market. If you know, I think, you know, you’ve got to see what’s going on, you’ve got to anticipate where this is going. People don’t want to sell because why are they going to leave, you know, under 3%, mortgage, you know, interest rate, you’ve got a tough sell. It’s a very tough sell. So, you know, you’ve got to find ways, talk to loan officers, what can we do to help, you know, some of my sellers, it’s like, will they offer a two one buy down, you’ll buy the interest rate down for the first two years 1% For the second year. And then it goes to with with the understanding that many people are doing arms right now or they’re planning to refinance. A lot of people talk to mortgage people talk to everybody that you can to find out what’s going to help me move this product. If if, if it’s if it’s for a seller, D.J. Paris 49:47 you’re you’re saying I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to pause you but I only want you because you just said something very, very profound. And we’re going to get to the buyer in just a moment. I don’t want to apologize for jumping in here. But you said something very important, which was you Get almost get creative, but you don’t have to have the answers. But you have to have a good team. So reach out to the loan officers and say, hey, this person, look, loan officers know, nobody wants to go from 3% to 7%. Mortgage. I don’t want to do that. You don’t want to do that. But, but sometimes there are sellers that can do the 21321. Buyer downs, I mean, you can kind of craft it any way you want. There are creative solutions. And that’s where instead of just going, well, obviously, nobody wants to go from three to 7%. Yeah, we all know that. Now, let’s reach out to our lending partners and say, Guys, give me a compelling argument that I can then bring to a buyer to say, here’s how we’re going to help this make more sense than Diana Sutherlin 50:43 that. And if they’re afraid, oh, but the market, it’s going to tank, it’s gonna go, we didn’t go down where we are, everybody was like, oh, you know, prices are gonna go down XMen, we didn’t go down at all, really, we actually went up. And so much of it is every it’s always supply and demand, no matter at the end of the day, I don’t care where you are, what year it is, it’s supply and demand. And the fact is, there was so little, and there were so many people who wanted to buy. Now, the other thing too, on the buyers side is you’ve got to help them get over their fear I’m going to buy in the market is going to tank, you know, or you know, and they’re so freaked out about the interest rates. And I love that line, marry the home date, the rate, it’s fine, get the rate because that can change, you know, but if you find something you love, and again, keep them focused on how long are they selling? I mean, how long are they living there? If if they’re going to flip this in two years? Yeah, maybe not. But you’re gonna live there for the long haul, you won’t be at what show from historically, what has happened, and what always continues to happen. Even back during the market crash. Look, I bought some properties, when that happened in some of in the buildings that my developers were selling, because it was like they were giving things away, that was a very unusual time that I don’t think we’re ever going to see again. D.J. Paris 52:19 And we probably won’t see 3% interest rates ever again, either. And that’s it, it’s okay. It was an anomaly. Reaction to COVID. It made sense at the moment. And now we’re a little bit hamstrung, because, you know, we have, you know, again, so it’s tough right now, you know, you have somebody who wants to sell their property for a premium, or to, you know, to recognize the upside that they’ve seen. And that, yeah, Oh, where am I gonna live next. And that is that is tricky, it’s a tough position to be very Diana Sutherlin 52:51 tricky. The, the good thing is, sometimes they’re going into areas that are not that the inventory isn’t quite as low as it is here. You know? And, um, and then if sellers are like, and if they come to me, if sellers come to me in this kind of market and say, oh, I want to sell this off market, why would you who benefits from that? I do, but they certainly don’t, there’s so many buyers out there, there’s so many buyers out there, and you want to get it out there, you want to get it out there and get it out there. And there’s all kinds of, you know, ways people are doing them. By doing that. I know some agents are underpricing a bit to get bidding mores, you know, whatever, whatever your particular style is. But there are buyers out there, it’s just managing their fear, manage fear. And D.J. Paris 53:50 also, I suspect, Diana, that you have said this more than once. And I want to, I’m sort of making up the story in my head. And I’d like you to clarify or correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s a really important one. Because right now agents want listings, because listings we know sell very quickly. However, buying the next property for that, that couple assuming they stay in the same market, looking for a comparable place, or maybe a step up or a step down, depending on where they are in their life can be very, very challenging. And I wonder how many times you have said to someone you know, we can sell your property in a day or two, or very quickly because of the conditions of the market. What I’m worried about is not finding you the next place. I suspect you have counseled people to say now maybe isn’t the right time to consider that. And you’ve probably turn down business as a result. I’m curious to hear Does that ever come into play? Especially right now where you’re like, you know, we have to think about inventory. Yes, we can sell the property. Yes. We’ll make a profit. I’m worried though about finding your next place. Diana Sutherlin 54:58 Yeah, absolutely. loosely, I mean that definitely if they, if they don’t see that there are, there’s a little bit of a stream, even if it’s a small stream of things coming on the market of things that they could possibly do and marry the home date the rate, then, then maybe it isn’t the right time. I think. And that’s my point, again, about you give people the right advice, you may not get that initial, you know, commission, but guaranteed, I’ve seen this so many times, they’re coming back to you for years, and they’re referring you. And I’ve always said never, you know, it’s just like how you treat other agents, I’m very known in the business. And I’m very, very proud of the fact that I’m a really ethical agent, I know, agents out there right now that block other agents from seeing the properties, because they want to double it, we’re getting a lot of that they will double and, you know, buy and sell side. And it’s like you are literally destroying, you’re going to need that other agent. Yep, down the line, you are so short sighted. Because if you don’t play nice in the sandbox, and it’s one of the reasons, so many, so many of the developers came to me to do even the broker outreaches, because they knew I had such good rapport with so many agents, they come to me, I do an open house, they there, I mean, a broker’s open, they’re there do you know, and they support you, and they want to do business with you. And there’s a lot of kind of icky things that go on, you don’t want to be part of that. Always think long term, long term, you know, have a much bigger vision. And that’s exactly, it speaks to what you’re talking about, you know, sometimes you’ve got to be patient, and it may not be the right time. You know, if there’s I tell my clients all the time in a stacked building, meaning a high rise that has a whole line of the exact same unit, if two or three come on the market at the same time, do not listen now. Because it’s supply and demand. Again, you’re going to be competing with these two other people, not buyers know they can negotiate more in a situation like that. So I always encourage them, hang on, can you stay Can you rent for a year, whatever, whatever their possible options are. But you’ve got to be willing to not to let that immediate commission go. Postpone it or, you know, push it off a little bit. And and then they trust you. It’s all about, it’s all about building trust. It really is. D.J. Paris 57:56 It is and it because it’s such a huge financial decision, you know, whether it’s somebody’s first time buying a home, or selling a home, or it’s their fifth home, either way, they are this is this, we’re talking about finances. You said something else about being in alignment or or being playing nice in the sandbox with other agents. I, I don’t suspect our listeners struggle with this, because I just assume our podcast listeners are the nicest agents in the on the planet. And I’m sure they are. But sometimes, but you know, there’s other agents out there who aren’t so nice to us, in particular. And I hate to even say this, because I wish I wasn’t saying it. But women get treated differently. Sometimes by sometimes by male agents, sometimes by other female agents. But regardless, women can be treated differently as well. I have a very good friend here in Chicago is one of the top agents he or she has been nicest person you could ever possibly meet. And sort of like when we’re together socially, she’ll go, you would not believe the way some men speak to me. And I’m like, as a man, I don’t recognize that. So as men, anyone out there who’s listening, who is a man, really, really understand that, that women sometimes do not get talked to in the same way that men are taught to and it is not easy to be a woman, not easy to be a woman in general, but certainly not easy to be a woman realtor, when men can can, you know, talk down to women? So I’m curious and when you see bad behavior out there happening to you, you know, you’ve probably experienced it as well. How do you process that and move beyond it? Diana Sutherlin 59:34 You know, I, I don’t get that so much. But it could be because of how long I’ve been doing this and people around you’re, for the most part are aware of me at least, and my reputation so I don’t get that some but I did in the beginning. I did in the beginning. I actually will never forget this one agent saying and he was an old timer in the business here. hardly ever did any business. And I came in and you know, I guess he just assumed, you know, maybe I was a hat check girl before, who knows. But I remember one of my developers coming back to me and saying, What a nasty man, he just said, Oh, she just walked into everything. And I was like, oh, yeah, you know what? Yeah, I had, it really bothered me at first. But I learned to let it roll off my back. And with developers, every now and then I’ll get that kind of D.J. Paris 1:00:38 advice club kind of, Diana Sutherlin 1:00:41 can be a, but I am always one of them over, I’ve always with my knowledge, with my hard work with making them making their product project to success. And beyond what they ever thought, I mean, so many times, I’ve outsold their performance, you know, when they’re like, Oh, my God, you’re the best thing since sliced bread. And the fact is, sometimes you have to earn it. And I kind of know that, and I have to just, Okay, I’m gonna buckle up, and I’m going to show them, you know, and then they are completely the opposite. You know, there was a one of the big projects that I did every Wednesday, we would have our big marketing meeting. And every I was the only woman in there. And it got to be and the, the person who was the regional director was so difficult, everyone was terrified of him, terrified of him, even his own sales team was terrified of him. And it got to the point, we will walk into the meetings, the only person he ever talked to in there, or ask questions of was me. And the whole meeting, he just felt, and everybody else was kind of glad, because then they weren’t in the lineup, they were afraid, afraid, afraid. And I thought, I’m stepping up to this, I’m jumping in the deep end, I’m going to come up with some great ideas, I’m going to do the work that he’s asking me to do, do my research, think out of the box, you know, throw out some ideas here. And he respected me for it, you know, so you have to show your work, you have to know your worth, you have to know your worth. And then you have to show them. And sometimes you just have to prove it. I haven’t I have somebody right now that from the very beginning, he had a really bad, bad situation with a realtor prior to me. And it was so unfortunate, because I knew I was going to have to undo some of that damage, you know, in his mind with trust. And now it’s completely the opposite. But it was painful for for, you know, a few weeks. It was like God, he questions everything I do to see really think I don’t know what I’m talking about, you know, and it was really, really hard. Particularly after all the years, I’ve done this, and I think if he would just trust me, you know, we could get this done so much quicker and better. You know, and it took time, but I hung in there part of it is I like a child. You know, maybe that’s it. I like a challenge, you know, but we don’t get as much. We have a lot of women here that do real estate. And a lot of the top ones are women not all for sure. But a lot of them are incredibly intelligent women, you know, and I’m so good at what they do. And we all admire each other male and female alike. I think, I think the top agents always seem to kind of usually unless they’re just so hyper competitive with you. They seem to you know, um, you know, we have mutual respect most of the time. D.J. Paris 1:04:14 I think that’s because you all know the amount of skill and effort that it takes to get to that level anyone can get there should they put in that amount of work and dedication, very few will go that that extra mile. And as a result, you’ve all you’re part of a community of people that have gone the extra mile now again, there’s outliers, there’s always the weird person at the top or you’re like I don’t like that person. But the vast majority are like we earn this spot we’d like that there’s compet healthy competition. We also by the way, are cooperating with each other it is called a cooperative commission. So it’s so it is so important inter Personal interpersonal skills with other agents, you know, if you, you know, right now, especially when you’re with buyers, so much competition, because obviously, there’s inventory challenges in most markets, this is the time to really build those interpersonal skills, I think between realtors, because, boy, you want you want somebody when they see your name on that offer to go out, I know Diana, she’s the she’s great, this is legit. And you Diana Sutherlin 1:05:29 know what, you it’s it, you’re laying out a course for your business to be so much easier. You make enemies out there, let me and we all know the agents we see on a listing and we go, Oh my God, there’s gonna be a nightmare. And they’re gonna throw my offer in the trash or they’re, you know, or they’re going to use it to go get their own. But you we all know those agents. And you know what happens over time. People don’t want to work with them. They don’t want to work with them, because why would they waste their time? Their clients time? You know, you never trust anything they say, you know, and then you know, the ones you see their name, you know, man, this is a stand up person. We’re going to literally be professional to professional, and it’s a joy doing. It’s a it’s a pleasure doing business with people like that. So that’s why I’m saying don’t chase after that one commission here or that one commission here. I’ve had, I’ve had agents that have done lousy things to me, you know, I’m not gonna go badmouth them. But you know, when I see them coming, I’m kinda like, yeah, no, you know, I’m not going to seek out working with them. Let’s put it that way. And, you know, so it’s incredibly important. We’re here for the long term. D.J. Paris 1:06:59 Yeah, I think, you know, we always want I always think like, whenever, my, somebody I’m calling when the phone rings. And now of course, it announces, you know, we’ve had caller ID since the 90s. Now, everyone knows the phone call who it’s from, you know, and I always want in any part of my life, whether it’s my family, my friends, you know, my, my work colleagues, my clients, I want, when the phone rings, I don’t want them to go deejays calling me I don’t want them to go, hey, hey, DJs, calling this is cool. Like, he’s probably got something fun and exciting to tell me or he’s, he cares about me, I want people to be pleasantly surprised. Like, I want them to see a smile on their face when, when, when they pick up the phone. And, and if and if you can, not you Diana, but if our listeners if we can think about as a realtor, you know, there’s always bumps in every transaction, there’s always something that goes wrong. And every single transaction, there’s always going to be some point of tension or stress. And if if you can still be every time that when you make those outbound phone calls to whether it’s another agent and attorney, a lender, loan officer or your client, and if the other person’s like, I’m excited to pick up the phone, you know, you’re doing a good job. That’s Diana Sutherlin 1:08:14 right. And you sometimes have to be a mediator, we have to be mediators, we have to do conflict resolution, sometimes between couples, you know, members of a couple, we have to be therapists, when they’re sitting on the ledge, you know, constantly, we’re having to be therapists. And it’s like, and it’s part of the job. The other thing I will say is never be the smartest person in the room. Always keep learning. I am learning every single day. And I’ve thankfully, it’s always been my personality. I’m like a sponge. I never want to be that person that’s got to prove I know it all. I want to learn learn what and I’ve learned something, I learned something every day. And I learned something from almost almost every deal that I do. You know, and I look at everybody, as a team, my attorneys, my lenders, you know, you know, it’s like Teach me teach me the more I learned, the more I can serve my clients, you know, and then I know what I’m talking about, because I do know what I’m talking about. Right? D.J. Paris 1:09:25 I the thing that we didn’t specifically talk about, but I think in encompasses Diana, your success has been passion, you clearly have a passion for what you do, helping your clients. And again, this sounds a little bit like marketing speak. But I know everyone who has listened to this episode by now can hear the passion that comes through in the way in which you communicate and so that is incredibly important, because passion is something that I think doesn’t get spoken about enough in this industry. And, again, because it’s such a heavy emotional decision whether somebody buys or sells a home game, it’s heavy financial decision, emotional decision, it’s stressful decision to have somebody on your team who is passionate for you, the client, having your best interests in mind. And being able it doesn’t mean you have to be expressive. Everyone’s different. Some people are introverts, some people are extroverts. There’s different ways to express passion. It doesn’t have to be in exactly Diana style, but it works really well for Diana. But notice how authentic she is. She works hard, she sharpens her skills, she’s constantly trying to improve all of these years later and learn and continues to learn her numbers and the market. The passion for learning, I think, is really what I get the most is that was probably the most I’ve gotten out of you is this, this continual hunger for learning, learning, learning. And I think that allows you to continue to grow. So I want to honor you for that. I also want to say to our audience, by the way, if there are agents out there who are in the Gold Coast area of New Jersey, Hoboken What else, sorry, Jersey City, Hoboken, up the Gold Coast, if you are an agent who is looking, you know, this is the year of teams, this is the year of recruiting, this is the year where agents are moving around, you know, this is a good time to explore other options, if you would like to possibly, you know, see what other options exist or if you think you could be a value to the Sutherland group, or maybe you would want to join forces with them reach out to Diana and her team, and they can see if might be a match. And also, by the way, if you’re an agent in another area, or another state, even who have clients who you know, come and go, possibly moving into New York City or obviously New Jersey, but Florida a lot of people retire to Florida from New York City, of course, and other areas as well. If you have these feeder markets going in and out, Diana would love the opportunity to partner with you to work with your clients as well. But I’m Diana, if there is an agent in your area or someone that wants to work with you directly what’s what’s the best way they should reach out to you? Diana Sutherlin 1:12:22 Um, well, definitely, you can email me at Diana at Sutherland group.com. And my spelling is unusual, it’s su t h e r l i n group.com. You know, they can absolutely reach out to me there, I’m actually interviewing somebody this afternoon. So you know, it or referrals, I love referrals, we I send people back and forth. And that’s another reason to have great relationships with agents, you know, it’s very important, they have to know that you are going to take such good care of their client, you know, because it’s their reputation on the line too. So, so referrals, anybody looking to possibly join a team, you know, that, you know, maybe we can, you know, discuss whether it’s a good fit, but thank you for that DJ. D.J. Paris 1:13:20 Well, thank you. This has been an incredible Episode You said so much knowledge and wisdom and strategy. And I think more so than anything, just your overall presence is so in alignment with the only word that keeps coming to me is authentic, this, this authentic willingness to to really want to help somebody make this, these these financial these decisions around what they buy and sell and where they live. It really comes through in your energy and I suspect is a big part of your success. You are clearly clearly into the the end result for your client you are you are on their team, you are their advocate, and you are listening and paying attention. So I love, love, love, love that. And that came through just perfectly I think today so Advic, everyone learned a ton from you. And so if you are interested in working with Diana and her team, obviously you can reach out to her Sutherland group.com, we will have a link to that in the show notes, follow them on social media as well. Sutherlin group will have a link to that as well. So you don’t have to write it down. And also, Diana, on behalf of our listeners, thank you for your time we know just how busy you are, you know, with all of the different groups that you work with developers, clients, your own team members, thank you for your time today. And also on behalf of Diana and myself. We want to thank our listeners for continuing to support our show. Yeah, thanks for sticking around to the very end. Please support our sponsors. Please tell one friend of On this episode, just one other agent that is maybe struggling or maybe somebody that goes, I would like to start to work with developers or or just I want to be more connected to my, my sphere of influence, send them a link to this episode, and that will help them so just tell one friend in your office about this episode, we would appreciate it and also leave us a review for you. Whether you like us or not, we love feedback. So please tell us how you’re finding these episodes so we can continually improve for you Diana, thank you so much for being on the show. We are honored to have you Diana Sutherland. Amazing total superstar Rockstar in New Jersey and New York City as well. Diana, thank you so much. We will see everybody on the next episode. Thanks, Diana. Diana Sutherlin 1:15:42 Thank you. Okay. Take care.