Help Your Child Crush Their OCD (with Natasha Daniels) | Ep. 382

Helping children navigate the complexities of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) requires a delicate balance of understanding, patience, and empowerment. Natasha Daniels, a renowned expert in this field, shares invaluable insights into how parents can support their children in overcoming OCD with positivity and resilience. Normalizing OCD: One of the first steps in supporting children with OCD is normalizing the condition. Both parents and children need to understand that they are not alone in this journey. Natasha emphasizes the importance of taking things one step at a time and not allowing the overwhelming nature of OCD to overshadow the progress being made. Education is Key: Understanding OCD is crucial for effective support. Natasha urges parents to educate themselves about the condition, its symptoms, and the most effective treatment approaches. By arming themselves with knowledge, parents can better support their children through the challenges of OCD. The Concept of "Crushing" OCD: Natasha introduces the empowering concept of " crushing" OCD ." Instead of viewing OCD as an insurmountable obstacle, children are encouraged to see it as something conquerable. This shift in perspective can be transformative, instilling a sense of empowerment and resilience. Making Treatment Fun: To engage children in treatment , Natasha suggests incorporating fun activities. By turning exposures into games or playful challenges, children are more likely to participate actively in their own recovery journey. This approach not only makes treatment more enjoyable but also fosters a positive attitude towards facing fears. Bravery Points: Natasha introduces the idea of "bravery points" as a motivational tool for children. By rewarding bravery in facing OCD-related fears, children are incentivized to confront their anxieties and engage in exposure exercises. This gamified approach can be highly effective in encouraging progress. Adapting for Teens and Adults: While bravery points may resonate well with children, Natasha also offers insights into adapting these strategies for teenagers and adults. Creative incentives tailored to different age groups can help individuals of all ages stay motivated and committed to their treatment goals. Creative Exposures: Incorporating creative exposures into treatment can make confronting fears more engaging and less daunting for children. By turning exposures into interactive experiences, such as games or role-playing exercises, children can develop essential coping skills in a supportive environment. Collaborative Approach: Natasha emphasizes the importance of collaboration between parents and children in the treatment process. By working together to develop coping strategies and respond to OCD-related behaviors, families can create a supportive and empowering environment for children with OCD. Addressing Parenting Challenges: Managing the emotional challenges of parenting a child with OCD can be overwhelming. Natasha offers insights into coping with feelings of anger, frustration, and helplessness, providing strategies for maintaining patience and support during difficult moments. Long-Term Perspective: Supporting children with OCD requires a long-term perspective. Building resilience and fostering a family culture that promotes bravery and resilience are essential for long-term success. By focusing on progress rather than perfection, families can navigate the challenges of OCD with hope and determination. Conclusion: Natasha Daniels' insights offer a beacon of hope for families navigating the complexities of OCD. By normalizing the condition, educating themselves, and adopting creative and empowering approaches to treatment, parents can support their children in overcoming OCD with positivity and resilience. TRANSCRIPTION: Kimberley: Welcome everybody. Today we have Natasha Daniels. She's the go to person for the kiddos who are struggling with anxiety and OCD. And I'm so grateful to have her here. We are going to talk about helping your kid crush OCD and how we can make it fun and how we can get them across the finish line. So welcome Natasha. Natasha: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Kimberley okay. We've had you on before and I think so much so highly of you. I'm so honored to have you on here again talking. We were talking about kids as well last time but first of all let's just talk about the kiddo, right? The kiddo who has OCD. They're starting this process. Let's sort of even say like they're ready for help, like they want to get better, but at the same [00:01:00] time getting better feels like a huge mountain that they have to climb. What might you say to the kiddo and the parents at that beginning stage of treatment? Natasha: A lot of times I think kids don't even realize that they're not alone. They think they have like these really bizarre thoughts and that they'll never be able to stop those bizarre thoughts. So I the first step is really normalizing it for both the parent and the child and letting them know that lots of people have this struggle and that they are able to get through it and have a healthy, productive life. And for parents in particular. about tunnel vision, you know, because it can feel so big. And it's like, let's just, what's your next move? What's your next step that tunnel vision so that the overwhelm doesn't skew your perspective Kimberley: Yeah, what might be those steps? Like what, what, [00:02:00] what, how would you, how would you have that conversation? I mean, I know for parents, I think there's some relief in getting a diagnosis and being like, Oh, okay, so we know now what this is. And we're here to get treatment and we're assuming this is the right treatment. But they're still just, you know, it's such a mountain to climb. So what might you say to them? Natasha : The first step is really educating yourself. I think parents learn a little bit and they just like want to jump into the deep end. They learn a little bit, like, Oh, you shouldn't be accommodating the OCD. So they're like, well, now I don't know what to do because I was doing something that at least help my child in the, in the moment. But now I'm hearing that that actually makes it worse. And so they start to feel really overwhelmed by the little bit of information they get. So I would say. You know, get some education, whether you read a parent book, or you take a course, or you just watch a bunch of videos, but [00:03:00] like, get some basic foundation of what OCD is because it's going to shift and morph and change and look different. And so understanding, like, lay of the land of like, oh, okay, this is what OCD is. You know, it, it's demanding and it wants me, my child to do or avoid something to get that brief relief. And sometimes that hooks me in and the more they do or avoid that, the bigger it grows, like understanding it would be the first step. Kimberley: So you wrote an amazing workbook called Crushing OCD Workbook for Kids. Let's talk about this term crushing like crushing OCD and that's sort of the title of our episode as well Like do we want that mindset if we're gonna crush it? Like what does that look like? How does that change our mindset? Do we need to really think of it like crushing it? Can you kind of share a little bit more about that mindset shift? Natasha Yeah. I do use the word crushing a lot. [00:04:00] My courses are all about crushing. My, my book is crushing um, we're not getting rid of. Um, and so. There is a reason why I use crushing versus like overcoming or getting rid of, it is a powerful, kind of aggressive word. And, and I do feel like seeing OCD as kind of like this adversarial thing that you are crushing. Um, 1 can be very therapeutic and empowering for the child, especially when it's externalized and it's personified. So it's this Mr. OCD or this O cloud is us and we're going to crush it. Um, and then physiologically, do see it differently than anxiety. And I think sometimes with anxiety. we talk about, I kind of equate anxiety as like the overreactive lifeguard, and he's trying to, he's trying to look out for you, but just kind of, [00:05:00] he's sending the emergency alarm bells all the time. So maybe he needs some retraining. Maybe we crush him too, but that I think has more flexibility physiologically. Where I feel like OCD is like this foreign thought that's coming into my brain that is so incongruent with who I am, depending on the theme. And there's no part of it that feels like protective or aligned, um, in the way that OCD can show up. And it's very glitchy, you know, and physiologically, a different part of the brain. And it is. It's a, you know, it's more of a glitch versus an overreactive. So I do feel like about crushing it is a good analogy. Kimberley Well, I think too it's OCD can be so powerful and make us feel like we have to kind of like gulp down and, and wither it. Right. And so it does kind of require our kiddos to stand up to it. And I think crushing it [00:06:00] really gives that metaphor of like, we're going to stand up to it. We're going to win. This is like, we're going, you know, it's point systems or something like that. Like who's going to win this baseball match, but we're going to beat it against OCD. So I think that that is really helpful. And I think kids get behind it too, like Kids want to crush things. Natasha: Yeah. And, and they really need to feel empowered because it is so overpowering more than really any other disorder. It is just, it's they're being bombarded with these thoughts and feelings and to, to sit in a storm. And not do what OCD wants you to do a, is a really brave thing to do. And I do feel like kids can really get behind the idea of overcoming and crushing, not overcoming, but crushing it and feeling empowered that they have more strength than OCD does. Kimberley: Okay. So in the workbook, you talk about these fun activities and I have found having my own [00:07:00] children, but also being a clinician, if it's not fun, they're not that interested. What's the payoff really? So, so can you share with us some of the fun activities or ways in which we can start to approach this topic with our kids? Natasha: Yeah, I think anything can be fun and we want our kids to, to have fun and we want to gamify it. So a lot of the workbook talks about One, how to view OCD in a really fun way. So I use a lot of cartoons and a lot of metaphors so they can see it. Um, also talking about incentivizing them and, you know, adding points or bravery points to do, do scary things. And so it becomes kind of this, Gamified version of, of, of crushing their OCD. Kimberley: So bravery points. What does that mean? Natasha: So bravery points can be different for different families. Um, and we use them in my, my house as well for [00:08:00] my own kids with OCD, where we set up kind of like a virtual store. And there are certain things you can have this pretty structured or not structured where you points and, um, you know, kids can do things that OCD will not. Want them to do or do things or not do things that OCD wants them to do, whichever way OCD is working or do exposures they're purposely triggering OCD and then they earn points and they can cash those points in and so Even at my house, you know, my child does not get Roebucks unless he cashes his points in There's like a direct line there. My daughter doesn't get slime from very expensive place, unless she wants to cash her points in. And those are done through steps that are, that's crushing their anxiety and OCD. Kimberley: And so I was actually going to ask this in terms of bravery points. This is not just for kids. This is for teens too. So you might be doing this for like, how might this apply to [00:09:00] teens or do we use bravery reward points for teens as well? Natasha: Yeah. I think it can be used for anyone. I mean, I think even adults can, can gamify their battles with anxiety and OCD. Um, I mean, I've set that up for myself where I've done something that would be really hard. And then I've offered myself incentives, you know, ironically, or not really ironically, but interestingly. Intrinsic incentive does start to happen. You start to get traction. Um, I know for, for the kids that I've worked with in my practice and even my own kids, I've seen the, the pride when they've done something really scary and the relief of like, Oh my gosh, that was not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be. And then the empowerment. So I kind of want to preface this with. can have these external reinforcers, but they're there to celebrate those brave moves. They're there to make the association of this is really fun, but the internal motivation does start to get some traction down the [00:10:00] road. And so even with teens offer them incentives, and that might look different. I know, um, I've used this example a lot, like for my older daughter, she would net, she would not be driving today. Absolutely not be driving. If it wasn't for me. ordering her Starbucks. And I would just order her Starbucks and I'd be like, okay, it's ordered, you know, you just need to go pick it up. And she, she has social anxiety as well. So she'd like, and she feels bad about spending money. So there was all sorts of things that were actually working in my favor. Cause she felt so bad. She's like, mom, you just ordered it. But I said, I wasn't ready to drive. And I was like, you don't have to pick it up. It'll just be sitting there. It'll just be wastey wastey. And she would go there. I mean, she had three. cycles of driving school before I did this. Natasha: She was well skilled, but I mean, that's a very basic incentive. It was like, I'm going to reward you. Here's an extent, you know, an incentive to go do it. And, you can be creative with teens, [00:11:00] whether it is. I mean, in my practice, I would get like Xbox controls or like one girl wanted a green screen for her YouTube channel. Like, and it was just that weren't like far, far down the road, but little incentives to celebrate and say, you know, you're doing really hard stuff and it doesn't have to be all boring and, and miserable. It can be fun too. Kimberley: Yeah. In our house, it's Taylor Swift records. We're working our way to get every single one of them. Um, right. And, and, and you get them after you, you know, achieve a certain amount of things. So I think I love this. Um, and I think it, it can, again, it can be age dependent. My son is working towards Pokemon cards as well for different things as well. So I love that. Natasha: Yeah. Kimbelrey: So, okay. So bravery rewards. What about, um, The, the other work of treatment and crushing OCD, are there other [00:12:00] fun activities that you have found to be really powerful, whether it's more in how we educate and conceptualize OCD or get them to do the scary thing? Natasha: Yeah. I think you can get creative and really anything that you're doing, uh, exposures can be fun as far as creating things that are triggering the OCD on purpose. They don't always have to be serious and boring. Um, you can create. Fun things, um, you can do interesting exposures, whether you create a game and you're playing games around it, like go fish, but you change the go fish to different names related to what they're struggling with. Or used, like, um, jelly beans, you know, that tastes gross for my child that has, like, metaphobia and issues. And so thinking out of the box, um, in my practice, I would use, like. like two truths and a [00:13:00] lie they had moral OCD. And so we talk about, you know, I'm going to tell you two truths, but one and the, the third one will be a lie and you have to guess which one it is. And that's a fun game in general, uh, but very overwhelming for someone with moral OCD. And so I think sometimes we think it all has to be serious, but there are a lot of creative ways that we can do exposures that. that can make us laugh. And even when we're responding to our kids, and let's say you don't want to feed the OCD. And so, um, let's just use a concrete example. Like if your child has moral or scrupulosity OCD, and they're always saying, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. You know, repetitively, that's kind of a compulsive thing and you know that you're not going to feed it. And so you come up with a plan of, I'm not going to accept your sorry. You can even do something silly with that, um, and I've had parents who like, they would say it in a different accent or they would sing it or they'd say, you know, sarcastically, I'm sorry. [00:14:00] You're sorry is not accepted or, you know, like you can, you can even come up with fun, sarcastic things in your response to OCD as long as you're partnering with your child. Kimberley: Tell me about the partnering though, right? So in an example of where you're like, you know, let's say you use your most funny Donald Duck accent, um, in saying, I don't, I don't want to, you're sorry. Um, um, You know, how, how, what if that doesn't feel like partnering to them? What if that feels like, you know, uh, like a, a betrayal to them or they, they're very invested in getting that compulsion done? What would you suggest? Natasha: Yeah. You definitely want to collaborate with your child first and say, you know, I know either they bring it to you or you bring it to them. Like I noticed that when you say this, it's actually your OCD saying that to me. And because I love you, I'm not going to give what OCD wants [00:15:00] anymore. So prefacing it with, I'm noticing that this is a compulsion that I'm part of, and I'm, I love you. And so I'm not going to be part of that compulsion. And can respond in these ways, how would you like me to be, or how do you, how would you like me to respond so you can partner if they can come up with a creative way? Um, like, for instance, in my case with my son, he said, tell me, say, I'm sorry, is not accepted. Like, he literally scripted it for me. when I said it in the moment, he wasn't happy with that because then he was panicking and he was feeling overwhelmed. And so he, I don't like when you say that, but that was our agreement. Um, I might pivot in that moment if he's looking really overwhelmed and I might not say anything because maybe it's not a time to be funny or maybe poking back in a really aggressive way isn't being well received in that moment, but that doesn't mean I'm going to feed the OCD. Okay. you might have a child that doesn't want to partner with you that says, I want you to do this and this makes me feel better. And [00:16:00] why are you being mean? Um, and in that case, humor is not appropriate. You know, you're not going to use humor. You might just say, well, I love you. And so I'm not going to respond and you let them know you're going to respond, but the humor part, if we're the only ones laughing, then it's not really funny. So we have to be very careful about that. Kimberley: Yeah. So, and I mean, it's true that crushing OCD or any, you know, mental health disorder is like a family affair. And so as a, as a parent, What is the training for them in this sort of idea of crushing it and making it fun? What, what personal work would you recommend they do, um, on their own in their own therapy, whether they're with a parenting coach or a therapist or with each other as partners, what would you suggest a parent do to prep for this [00:17:00] sort of marathon that we're on? Natasha: It's a great question because there is so much parenting work that, that needs to be done because it's our journey too. And so I feel like the parent journey is unique in and of itself, you know, raising a child with OCD Um, it's not for the faint hearted. So learning, how do you sit in discomfort when your child is sitting in discomfort? you handle your child being triggered and not swooping in and doing what your child's OCD wants? hard to, to be a witness to your child's struggles, to know that in the short term, you can do something. Some of the time. appeases the OCD, but then grows it long term. And so, um, getting your own support or finding your own way to ground or your own coping skills of how do you handle that when you're, when the child's OCD is having a tantrum. Um, and it will try to kind of break you down so that you [00:18:00] give in so that there's work in that area. I think also, how do we handle our own, how do we handle our own mental health when our child is having mental health issues? Because We are not a blank slate. We come with a lens and that lens has our own childhood. It has our own experiences, has our own mental health issues. And and so we're seeing our child's mental health issues through our lens no one can have a clear lens, but to have some awareness of I'm bringing this to the table, When my child does this, it triggers this for me, which is actually not about my child, but that's about my dad, or that's about my childhood experience. And how do I work through that so that it's not impeding how I'm my child. I'm not dealing with that. Yeah. Kimberley: Yeah, for sure. What's, what's interesting for me. is I was thinking about this about parenting in general is [00:19:00] sometimes I parent the way my parents parented without even Questioning. Is that the way I want to parent like it'd be sometimes I'll catch myself Parenting my child in the way my parents was when I'm like didn't help me like that wasn't helpful You know what? I mean? And and it's so automatic. It really takes slowing down and being like wait I'm What did I need during that time? How can I be that for my child? It's so automatic sometimes. And I think that, um, so many parents, I mean, I wish we were given a manual, but like, it's a lot of emotional regulation work of our own to sit while your child is struggling. Um, especially with anxiety, cause you know, we just, it's so easy to fix it by giving them the compulsion or. You know, so I really feel for the parents that I, you know, that we treat in that it's so much emotional regulation. Would there be a specific [00:20:00] set of tools that you would give them or do you think it's very much dependent on the person? Natasha: I think it's dependent on the person as far as what they're bringing. What they're bringing in the moment. Um, but I do talk about lovingly detach and, and a lot of times parents hear that and they get concerned because they think detachment means that I'm not present for my child. And it's actually the opposite to me. It's like, how can I be? 99 percent or 95 percent there for my child. I'm like, I'm an anchor for them and I'm not bringing anything to the equation. Kimberley: Yeah, Natasha: And that is hard. And a lot of it actually is this. It may seem really weird, but I feel like a lot of it is building up your skills. Through like mindfulness, you know, how do I stay in the moment? I'm only eating this food. I'm only petting my dog and that training like that mental training of your brain of like being Literally only in the [00:21:00] moment and learning how to fine tune that is actually a great survival tool because I find that When I'm in the moment with my kids and I have been working on that muscle in my brain, I'm able to not see as much through that lens of my own childhood or my own triggers. And I'm just like, what does she need from me right now? And that's the question I always tell parents to ask. What do they need from me right now? Like, what is my job in this moment right now? And sometimes it is to ignore them because I know with my daughter, at least, she doesn't like the attention of anxiety. Like when I can tell clearly she's having an anxiety attack, she doesn't want me to hover. And that's really hard because. Inside, you're feeling really anxious about it, but you know that your anxiety or your, your energy is contagious. And so yourself and be like, in this moment, she needs me to go, you know, about the morning routine and just act like nothing's happening. Or it might be the opposite for your child, right? But knowing it's not about us, what do they need in [00:22:00] that moment? Um, and that is a powerful skill that has to be, it's a daily practice. Kimberley: and different for each kid. Natasha: Right. Vastly Kimberley: Yeah, Natasha: Yeah. Kimberley: where it gets complicated. I think he's like because you know, we go Okay, this is the way we do it This is how we do it from now on and then you have another kid and you're like wait that doesn't work for them Natasha: Yup. Kimberley: let's shift it up and let's change it I'm wondering if we, you can quickly speak to a couple of emotions that I know show up with parents, you know, cause again, it's as much the parent game as it is the kids game. So where as clinicians and as parents, where they're to really champion our kids to ride the wave of discomfort and to use their skills and to manage it. What about for the parent they might be experiencing? I know a lot of parents report. anger that shows up at the, you know, when their kid isn't [00:23:00] using their skills and so forth. Um, do you have any, any advice to them when anger does show up or frustration? Yeah. Yeah. And Natasha: being angry then we're like, Oh, I responded angrily or I'm feeling frustrated and I shouldn't. And being accepting of the fact that it's okay, it's normal for me to feel angry. This is a frustrating situation and I want to change it and I want to steer the ship and I can't. Yup. You know, my child's not picking up their part. And so I think just validating that anger, um, which I can be, I think can be sometimes hard because we want to. Kind of we feel guilty about the anger, but then understanding where it's coming from and and again going inward There's so much inward work I think when you're raising a child with anxiety and OCD because it brings out all sorts of stuff for us So asking oh, it's interesting that I'm angry or that made me really [00:24:00] angry or sometimes I'll even say to myself like in my head like Natasha, that was like a huge response. why did you blow up so big on that? That was more than what was actually just happening then. And then do some self diving of like, what was that about it? Oh, that reminded me of this. Or I feel like I'm doing 99 percent of this and he's doing 1%. And what do we, what can we control? And so maybe if I'm feeling that way, then it's a shift of, to pull back. If I'm feeling like I'm doing 99 percent and that's making me angry. I can't control the pace of my child and their ability to use their skills because that's their journey, but I can control invested I am. And so if I'm doing 99 percent of this, then I'm going to pull back a little bit give, you know, invite them to meet me more in the middle. Kimberley: often I find under the fear is, I mean, so under the anger is the fear that we're going to be managing this for a while, or, you know, the parents grief [00:25:00] of This is interrupted the family system. So I think it's so normal. Um, I agree with you just to normalize that as a normal part of parenting, a kiddo who's struggling. Um, yeah. Okay. So in terms of getting that kid across the finish line or setting them up better things like setting them up for success, is there anything that you would tell the parents? as a mindset shift, like, you know, again, this is a marathon, not a sprint. What would you tell them in terms of the whole family system? How, what are skills and tools that they can be using to help set up a system or a family that can help this child crush OCD? Natasha: Yeah. I think mindset's really important because a lot of times is a perception of, I need to cure this, you know, or we need to get the skills and that they can overcome this and OCD is a chronic [00:26:00] condition. so we're wired, you know, if we're going to have anxiety or OCD, that this is going to pop up possibly in our life periodically. yeah, Yeah. So instead of thinking, like, how do I, you know, get rid of this cold or give them the skills and then we've we're done with this because that sets you and your child up for failure. I think having an idea of I'm going to create a home a family culture where we. Where we know we have the skills. We know what OCD is. We know how to identify it. Um, we live a life of exposures. We live a life of doing brave things. we talk about it and it doesn't have to be, I mean, I think once you're in maintenance, and you've really kind of. Learned all the skills that you have learned. I mean, we live in my house. It's a, it's a culture of anxiety. And OCD is kind of just part of our family culture. Like we do scary things or my kids might say that was an exposure or they earn points periodically. And so developing that in your, in your family as a system of like, just part of [00:27:00] your family, just the way your family functions and it works can be really helpful. And there's, there's, Brave things that anyone in the family can do. And so it can be a family affair where I had to go present at work and I didn't really want to present, you know, but I did it. It was really brave. And so using those analogy, using those examples, I think can be really. Normalizing for the child with with OCD. Kimberley: Yeah. So even, even for the non OCD kiddos, you would use that in terms of if they had to do a violin recital or a math. a national math test or that kind of thing. Natasha: Yeah, I mean, I think it can go way beyond OCD. It's how to build resilience because really at the crux of OCD is resilience. It's how to sit with discomfort, how to sit with uncertainty of not being 100 percent of something how to how to deal with something that feels uncomfortable and do it anyway. And so those are those are resiliency [00:28:00] tools that anyone Kimberley: Yeah. And it's such a great mind shift for everyone because parents are doing exposures. They are doing scary things by not accommodating their child as well. That's an exposure for a parent pretty well. Um, so you can conceptualize it that way. I love that. Yeah. Um, What does it look like? I love that you also mentioned in terms of like this is a long term thing. Like this is just a family culture thing. This is how we exist in the world. What does it look long term though? You know, do we do, I've had so many parents say to me, I don't want to give, but you know, the, the, um, The bravery points forever. I don't want to over saturate extrinsic motivation. Like, do you have any thoughts on that in terms of long term use of that method? Natasha: mean, it depends on your child's age and like where they are as far as building up skills. we have it in the background because I don't, [00:29:00] I don't give my kids money for chores, I don't. And so it's just been part of our thing where if they want, I guess what they would call in the UK pocket money, you know, if they want, they want spending money. In general, that really works for me for them to do brave things in general. Um, and so that is just part of the way that we have that now, my 20 year old's not earning like bravery points, you know, across, you know, state lines in California where she's in college, you know, but she's, she's, doing that lifestyle. And so I don't feel like you necessarily have to have these systems or incentives. Um, you might hit a bump and you might say, you want to earn something to overcome this thing that you're working on. Um, you know, a new struggle that they're having. So you might pull it out periodically for me. I don't want I'm like, I'm trying to teach my kids the idea of earning in general. And so it kind of. Fits well, because it's like, [00:30:00] you're not going to get things for free. And then there's this pride of like, oh, I earned that. Or let me work really hard at something. So you can get very ambiguous about it. You can have it be of just kind of your, your regular family incentives and how you're doing it, or you don't do it at all. I mean, It does eventually, um, get stale and so you have to either change it up or you take a break from it or your child is motivated by intrinsic motivation that they're feeling really great that they're able to go to school again or sleep on their own or do the things that were overwhelming for them. Kimberley: Right. Exactly. Yeah. I think that's the beauty is once you've done some exposures, you see that it works. There's a buy in. Um, but that buy in is hard at the beginning, which is why you do have to make it fun. And sometimes you do have to have it be sort of outside motivators to get you there. Yeah. Excellent. So, um, tell me about [00:31:00] your workbook where people can get it, where people can hear about you. Um, cause I know you have so many awesome resources. Natasha: Yeah. Well, I wrote, um, OCD workbook for kids because I wanted people to be able to have a book that was very simplistic that would walk them through basically what I would do in a therapy session, or therapy sessions. And so it just kind of walks them through OCD treatment. So it could be a great supplement to therapy. It could be great for a therapist to use, but it can also be a great standalone. Um, and it's meant for kids to be able to do either on their own or navigate with a parent depending on their age. And starts off with educating them on what is OCD because I told you, I feel like that's so important. Many disguises of OCD, um, normalizing it all the way to understanding how OCD works and then offense and defense about if OCD is knocking versus [00:32:00] knocking on OCD. How to do exposures at home and then how to, how to maintain that. And I also touch on like self esteem as well, because I feel like. OCD can really hurt the self esteem. So there's a little bit of empowerment and self identity in there as well. Kimberley: So important too. OCD can be mean, right? So, and knock people down. So I love that you're talking about that. And where can people find out more about you? Natasha: Um, well they can get the book on Amazon. They can find anything about me at my website at at parenting survival school. com. I mean, nope. At parenting survival, at parenting survival. com too many websites. Kimberley: No, I understand. I'm in the same boat. Well, thank you so much for coming on and talking about crushing OCD with kids. Is there anything you would leave parents and children with a little bit of inspiration or? One last point that you think that you really [00:33:00] want them to know. Natasha: Well, I think there's always hope. I mean, I have seen kids in very acute stages of struggling with OCD and I have seen kids make such big project progress. So there is always hope. And our kids are more than our, their OCD and kids with OCD tend to be the most, of the most compassionate, kindhearted, out of the box thinkers. And, and so I wouldn't even trade that with my own kids because I feel like the, the positive personality traits that, are underneath all those struggles are, are beautiful. So Kimberley: Yeah. Natasha: that's important to do. Track 1: And, and I think from, from my experience is nurture those parts that are not OCD, like what are their hobbies? How can we really build a life around OCD in terms of, you know, the instruments and the hobbies and the talents and the sports and the, you know, the community and that. So forth. So yeah, thank you so much Natasha for coming on. I am so I [00:34:00] love, I love your book. Thank you for writing it. I know writing a book is no easy feat. So congratulations on your book. Um, and I'm excited because you've got more on the, on the coming down the pipeline. I know you have a memoir coming out, so we'll be having you back on later in the year. Natasha: appreciate that. Thanks.